Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
02-01-2011 | 12:51 PM
#1
Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
Hi,<div></div><div>3rd flight on the blooming thing and I had a slight mishap with my skymaster viperjet 2M on takeoff... i.e. it never got off the ground. Grass was a bit wet from the week which I never took into account so I (stupidly!) left it a bit late to abort the run ending in hitting the arrestor wire fence at the other end 
Damage looks like it might just be: broken nosegear rails, popped skin where the cylinder went through the nose, bulge where the former at the nose got bent forward and some misc damage to the gear doors. All of which should be an easy and unseen fix as I can get access to the opposite sides in to lay some new cloth etc.</div><div></div><div>However, one bit that has me stumped is the leading edge on the port wing which got caught on one of the nylon fence cords causing it to be forced back and pop the LE join (see pics below). I'm pretty stumped how I'm going to fix this to a high standard so I was wondering if anyone fixed this sort of damage before and what did you do?</div><div></div><div>Cheers,</div><div></div><div>Colin</div>
Damage looks like it might just be: broken nosegear rails, popped skin where the cylinder went through the nose, bulge where the former at the nose got bent forward and some misc damage to the gear doors. All of which should be an easy and unseen fix as I can get access to the opposite sides in to lay some new cloth etc.</div><div></div><div>However, one bit that has me stumped is the leading edge on the port wing which got caught on one of the nylon fence cords causing it to be forced back and pop the LE join (see pics below). I'm pretty stumped how I'm going to fix this to a high standard so I was wondering if anyone fixed this sort of damage before and what did you do?</div><div></div><div>Cheers,</div><div></div><div>Colin</div>
02-01-2011 | 02:04 PM
#2
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From: Rochester Hills,
MI
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_92..._1/key_/tm.htm
This technique looks really good to me. Looks like new ... or maybe even better.
This technique looks really good to me. Looks like new ... or maybe even better.
02-01-2011 | 02:11 PM
#3
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
ORIGINAL: Slight Turbulence
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_92..._1/key_/tm.htm
This technique looks really good to me. Looks like new ... or maybe even better.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_92..._1/key_/tm.htm
This technique looks really good to me. Looks like new ... or maybe even better.
02-01-2011 | 02:16 PM
#4
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From: Rochester Hills,
MI
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
I wasn't comparing the level of damage from his to yours (obviously) I was just showing a method of repair since you don't have one. No matter the size. Good luck.
02-01-2011 | 02:21 PM
#6
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
I would CA all the torn parts together as best I could. If the leading edge is missing a chunk, then CA balsa to the wing skin and sand to shape. Then glass over the entire tear and patch and respray. Good luck!
02-01-2011 | 03:22 PM
#7
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
Thanks for the replies, will have a bash at it tomorrow.
Main concern is making sure the seam is airtight as i've seen previously threads with wings that have exploded<br type="_moz"/>
Main concern is making sure the seam is airtight as i've seen previously threads with wings that have exploded
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02-01-2011 | 04:23 PM
#8
My Feedback: (106)
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
colin.
One method I'v used is kinda drawn out but will give you a good patch. Like Delgato stated cut out the bad part clean by using a square off of your leading edge and cut a little beyond the broken area. While you have an opening that big, use that time to clamp up or get at the split leading edge and flow ca or aeropoxy in the seam and let cure. Cut some G-10 strips or balsa thats thin enough to follow the curve and glue it to the inside of each edge. Half in and half out. Will look just like your geardoor pockets. This will givew you something besides just an edge to glue your new wood onto. Bridge one side of your opening to the other with a piece of Tristock for a new leading edge and something to glue the front of your patch piece to. Make sure you use balsa a little bit thicker then the rest of the wing so you can sand down level. After you get that hole closed up, just a matter of sealing it with two part epoxy and painting. Good luck and let us know how it goes. Roy
One method I'v used is kinda drawn out but will give you a good patch. Like Delgato stated cut out the bad part clean by using a square off of your leading edge and cut a little beyond the broken area. While you have an opening that big, use that time to clamp up or get at the split leading edge and flow ca or aeropoxy in the seam and let cure. Cut some G-10 strips or balsa thats thin enough to follow the curve and glue it to the inside of each edge. Half in and half out. Will look just like your geardoor pockets. This will givew you something besides just an edge to glue your new wood onto. Bridge one side of your opening to the other with a piece of Tristock for a new leading edge and something to glue the front of your patch piece to. Make sure you use balsa a little bit thicker then the rest of the wing so you can sand down level. After you get that hole closed up, just a matter of sealing it with two part epoxy and painting. Good luck and let us know how it goes. Roy
02-01-2011 | 04:58 PM
#9
My Feedback: (24)
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
Actually, what I would do is cut out only the bottom skin of the wing in the area of the break. Cut it out past where its broken and in a square like a hatch. Then I'd push the top pieces together and fix with CA. Then glass the top skin of the wing from the inside well across and on either side of the break.
For the bottom repair, if you can, piece together the broken bottom pieces and glass the inside so that you have a solid, integral part that fits back in the "hatch" area you cut out. Once that is fixed, glue it back in with plenty of Hysol. For extra reinforcement, you could glue in "backing pieces" on the inside of the wing where the bottom section was cut out before you glue the bottom piece back. If you can not fix the bottom piece sufficiently, fill the hatch area with a block of wood, Hysol'ed in place like suggested above, and sand to shape.
Fill and sand the are in the top and bottom as necessary and prime and paint.
The difference in what I am suggesting is trying to keep as much of the original top skin as possible to help make the top part of the wing as close to the original shape as possible so as to minimize how much you can see the repair. I have dinged a few composite wings in my day [
] and going in through the bottom generally makes the repair look better and saves time...
Bob
For the bottom repair, if you can, piece together the broken bottom pieces and glass the inside so that you have a solid, integral part that fits back in the "hatch" area you cut out. Once that is fixed, glue it back in with plenty of Hysol. For extra reinforcement, you could glue in "backing pieces" on the inside of the wing where the bottom section was cut out before you glue the bottom piece back. If you can not fix the bottom piece sufficiently, fill the hatch area with a block of wood, Hysol'ed in place like suggested above, and sand to shape.
Fill and sand the are in the top and bottom as necessary and prime and paint.
The difference in what I am suggesting is trying to keep as much of the original top skin as possible to help make the top part of the wing as close to the original shape as possible so as to minimize how much you can see the repair. I have dinged a few composite wings in my day [
] and going in through the bottom generally makes the repair look better and saves time...Bob
02-02-2011 | 03:56 PM
#10
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
Could be a job for craigyfoam.
Named after my flying buddy, Craig, what he does is grab some soft, spongy, plastic foam & cut a piece to be slightly larger than the cavity which you are trying to fill.
Then mix some epoxy & pour onto the foam (use rubber gloves of course) & when it's soaked through squeeze as much of the epoxy out of the foam as you can. Then pull back your wing sheeting a little & stuff the craigyfoam inside, you may have to push/pull it into the exact position.
The foam will then expand very gently inside the wing filling up the area & dry rock hard.
Finish with the usual patch & paint. - John.
Named after my flying buddy, Craig, what he does is grab some soft, spongy, plastic foam & cut a piece to be slightly larger than the cavity which you are trying to fill.
Then mix some epoxy & pour onto the foam (use rubber gloves of course) & when it's soaked through squeeze as much of the epoxy out of the foam as you can. Then pull back your wing sheeting a little & stuff the craigyfoam inside, you may have to push/pull it into the exact position.
The foam will then expand very gently inside the wing filling up the area & dry rock hard.
Finish with the usual patch & paint. - John.
02-02-2011 | 06:32 PM
#11
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
i would cut out some of the damaged leading edge, enough to get a basswood or other hard stiff 1/4x1/4" spar inside ... use gorilla glue to set it into the LE, having it glued with a lot of the glue on either side from the inside where there is no damage. .. from there use pieces of lite ply (or good balsa sheeting) inserting them through the hole and then CA gluing them to the skin from the inside out ... ( you would build up from the inside out ... ) ... then do the other side like the ... ( you can use a screw into the sheeting to use to hold onto so as to position it ... last, i would get some expandable foam in there ... it adds a lot of supporting structure and prevents anything from ever collapsing in, and does a great job distributing any loads .. http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/nhp/nhp206.htm now from the outside you can fill the gap left where you cut out the outer skin with a layer of balsa sheeting, seal the balsa, and then prime and sand ..
~V~
~V~
Definitely a job for craigy foam.
02-02-2011 | 07:24 PM
#13
My Feedback: (23)
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
ORIGINAL: rhklenke
Actually, what I would do is cut out only the bottom skin of the wing in the area of the break. Cut it out past where its broken and in a square like a hatch. Then I'd push the top pieces together and fix with CA. Then glass the top skin of the wing from the inside well across and on either side of the break.
For the bottom repair, if you can, piece together the broken bottom pieces and glass the inside so that you have a solid, integral part that fits back in the ''hatch'' area you cut out. Once that is fixed, glue it back in with plenty of Hysol. For extra reinforcement, you could glue in ''backing pieces'' on the inside of the wing where the bottom section was cut out before you glue the bottom piece back. If you can not fix the bottom piece sufficiently, fill the hatch area with a block of wood, Hysol'ed in place like suggested above, and sand to shape.
Fill and sand the are in the top and bottom as necessary and prime and paint.
The difference in what I am suggesting is trying to keep as much of the original top skin as possible to help make the top part of the wing as close to the original shape as possible so as to minimize how much you can see the repair. I have dinged a few composite wings in my day [] and going in through the bottom generally makes the repair look better and saves time...
Bob
Actually, what I would do is cut out only the bottom skin of the wing in the area of the break. Cut it out past where its broken and in a square like a hatch. Then I'd push the top pieces together and fix with CA. Then glass the top skin of the wing from the inside well across and on either side of the break.
For the bottom repair, if you can, piece together the broken bottom pieces and glass the inside so that you have a solid, integral part that fits back in the ''hatch'' area you cut out. Once that is fixed, glue it back in with plenty of Hysol. For extra reinforcement, you could glue in ''backing pieces'' on the inside of the wing where the bottom section was cut out before you glue the bottom piece back. If you can not fix the bottom piece sufficiently, fill the hatch area with a block of wood, Hysol'ed in place like suggested above, and sand to shape.
Fill and sand the are in the top and bottom as necessary and prime and paint.
The difference in what I am suggesting is trying to keep as much of the original top skin as possible to help make the top part of the wing as close to the original shape as possible so as to minimize how much you can see the repair. I have dinged a few composite wings in my day [
] and going in through the bottom generally makes the repair look better and saves time...Bob
+1
02-02-2011 | 08:08 PM
#14
My Feedback: (44)
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
ORIGINAL: invertmast
+1
ORIGINAL: rhklenke
Actually, what I would do is cut out only the bottom skin of the wing in the area of the break. Cut it out past where its broken and in a square like a hatch. Then I'd push the top pieces together and fix with CA. Then glass the top skin of the wing from the inside well across and on either side of the break.
For the bottom repair, if you can, piece together the broken bottom pieces and glass the inside so that you have a solid, integral part that fits back in the ''hatch'' area you cut out. Once that is fixed, glue it back in with plenty of Hysol. For extra reinforcement, you could glue in ''backing pieces'' on the inside of the wing where the bottom section was cut out before you glue the bottom piece back. If you can not fix the bottom piece sufficiently, fill the hatch area with a block of wood, Hysol'ed in place like suggested above, and sand to shape.
Fill and sand the are in the top and bottom as necessary and prime and paint.
The difference in what I am suggesting is trying to keep as much of the original top skin as possible to help make the top part of the wing as close to the original shape as possible so as to minimize how much you can see the repair. I have dinged a few composite wings in my day [] and going in through the bottom generally makes the repair look better and saves time...
Bob
Actually, what I would do is cut out only the bottom skin of the wing in the area of the break. Cut it out past where its broken and in a square like a hatch. Then I'd push the top pieces together and fix with CA. Then glass the top skin of the wing from the inside well across and on either side of the break.
For the bottom repair, if you can, piece together the broken bottom pieces and glass the inside so that you have a solid, integral part that fits back in the ''hatch'' area you cut out. Once that is fixed, glue it back in with plenty of Hysol. For extra reinforcement, you could glue in ''backing pieces'' on the inside of the wing where the bottom section was cut out before you glue the bottom piece back. If you can not fix the bottom piece sufficiently, fill the hatch area with a block of wood, Hysol'ed in place like suggested above, and sand to shape.
Fill and sand the are in the top and bottom as necessary and prime and paint.
The difference in what I am suggesting is trying to keep as much of the original top skin as possible to help make the top part of the wing as close to the original shape as possible so as to minimize how much you can see the repair. I have dinged a few composite wings in my day [
] and going in through the bottom generally makes the repair look better and saves time...Bob
+1
02-06-2011 | 05:36 PM
#15
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
Thanks everyone for your posts and ideas! I have never really worked with repairing composite materials before or spray painting for that matter so it's all a learning process... As you can see from the photos below i've now repaired the damaged but instead of keeping the existing breaks i've cut the damage out and started again. I put some balsa sheeting across the gap top and bottom and then some square stock to bridge the leading edge. After that i used thicker weave fiber over the top with west systems resin then 2 layers of thiner cloth to build it up closer to the level of the existing glass. The cloth is cut out in one piece so there is no join to worry about at the leading edge and each layer is orientated at 90 degrees to build up strength. Tomorrow i plan on sanding back the new glass edges and putting some p38 filler on there to get the shape back follow by lots and lots of sanding It's alot more work but i'll get there in the end!
Also, I've repaired the nose and door damage but still undecided whether to try and match the red paint or see if i can use a glaze/cutting compound to minimise what you can see. Has anyone had any luck with matching sky master paint?
It's alot more work but i'll get there in the end!Also, I've repaired the nose and door damage but still undecided whether to try and match the red paint or see if i can use a glaze/cutting compound to minimise what you can see. Has anyone had any luck with matching sky master paint?
02-06-2011 | 09:49 PM
#17
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From: Houston, TX
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
Colin, I was going to suggest that you just strip it, burn it, get another one. However, since you obviously overcame your fear of repair and have done such an excellent job, guess I'll just say "great job"! Oh, what a beautiful country you have, and the people! I could really use some of that fresh, home grown, Scottish lamb!!!
02-07-2011 | 05:41 AM
#18
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
Colin,
I use these guys in Motherwell, not sure if Bathgate is nearer to you.
Spraystore - Motherwell Business Centre 8A-B Dalziel Street Motherwell ML1 1PJ T: 01698 265531
Spraystore - 7 Waverley Street, Waverley Industrial Units, Bathgate, EH48 4HY T: 01506634994
You need to take a a part with the colours you need matched on it and ask them to fill you an aerosol with 1 pack paint. Pick up a can of U-Pol clear while your there and you are good to go.
Cheers
Malcolm
I use these guys in Motherwell, not sure if Bathgate is nearer to you.
Spraystore - Motherwell Business Centre 8A-B Dalziel Street Motherwell ML1 1PJ T: 01698 265531
Spraystore - 7 Waverley Street, Waverley Industrial Units, Bathgate, EH48 4HY T: 01506634994
You need to take a a part with the colours you need matched on it and ask them to fill you an aerosol with 1 pack paint. Pick up a can of U-Pol clear while your there and you are good to go.
Cheers
Malcolm
02-07-2011 | 05:50 AM
#19
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
Colin,
Meant to say, looking at your damage on the nose I would mask off the area bounded by the centre seam and the panel lines round the damage using Tamiya fine line tape backed up with ordinary masking tape and paper. Spray several light coats allowing to go tacky between coats. As you will have an edge formed by the panel and the centre seam I wouldn't bother removing the masking before spraying the clear but remove the tape while the clear is wet. Allow to harden for several days and then if necessary work on the edges of the clear with some wet and dry used wet and then polish.
Where you don't have a panel line to act as a boundary like on your wing repair. Cut a hole in a piece of card slightly larger than the damaged area and suspend this approx. 6mm off the surface with blu tack or similar. Spray thro' the mask keeping the nozzle perpendicular to the mask to prevent too much paint getting under it and you will have a soft edge which won't show too much. Resist the temptation to wet sand this edge before you spray the clear as you will make it more visible than if left alone.
Hope this helps
Malcolm
Meant to say, looking at your damage on the nose I would mask off the area bounded by the centre seam and the panel lines round the damage using Tamiya fine line tape backed up with ordinary masking tape and paper. Spray several light coats allowing to go tacky between coats. As you will have an edge formed by the panel and the centre seam I wouldn't bother removing the masking before spraying the clear but remove the tape while the clear is wet. Allow to harden for several days and then if necessary work on the edges of the clear with some wet and dry used wet and then polish.
Where you don't have a panel line to act as a boundary like on your wing repair. Cut a hole in a piece of card slightly larger than the damaged area and suspend this approx. 6mm off the surface with blu tack or similar. Spray thro' the mask keeping the nozzle perpendicular to the mask to prevent too much paint getting under it and you will have a soft edge which won't show too much. Resist the temptation to wet sand this edge before you spray the clear as you will make it more visible than if left alone.
Hope this helps
Malcolm
02-07-2011 | 11:33 AM
#20
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
Hi Malcom,
Thanks for the addresses and tips - will bear that in mind when i get to the painting stage.
Spent an hour tonight sanding down the glass then filling it using P38 (bondo for US types) followed by more sanding and then another layer of filler. I've got the shape is the leading edge back so now its just a case of filling dips and lots more sanding.
I've learnt two things so far using the filler.
1. Don't put too much catalyst into the mix, it goes off far too quickly!
2. Wear my respirator in future as even though it smells pleasant it lingers for far too long and gives you one hell of a light head.
Cheers,
Colin
Thanks for the addresses and tips - will bear that in mind when i get to the painting stage.
Spent an hour tonight sanding down the glass then filling it using P38 (bondo for US types) followed by more sanding and then another layer of filler. I've got the shape is the leading edge back so now its just a case of filling dips and lots more sanding.
I've learnt two things so far using the filler.
1. Don't put too much catalyst into the mix, it goes off far too quickly!
2. Wear my respirator in future as even though it smells pleasant it lingers for far too long and gives you one hell of a light head.
Cheers,
Colin
02-07-2011 | 03:43 PM
#21
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
Well I now have a very strong right arm but unfortunately it's from sanding 
As you can see from the photos i've rough sanded, filled, sanded some more and repeated the process a few times until it's silky smooth. Perseverance and multiple grades of wet and dry sandpaper are the key...
Tomorrow I shall see if i can find a matching red and silver paint from Halfords before I probably have to make a trip to the paint matchers in Motherwell.
As you can see from the photos i've rough sanded, filled, sanded some more and repeated the process a few times until it's silky smooth. Perseverance and multiple grades of wet and dry sandpaper are the key...
Tomorrow I shall see if i can find a matching red and silver paint from Halfords before I probably have to make a trip to the paint matchers in Motherwell.
03-01-2011 | 04:31 PM
#22
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
I'm getting there, after taking Malcolms advice I visited spraystore and they put a spectrophotometer on each colour and Icame away with a mitsibushi red, nissan white and a silver.
So far i've painted the noise and front gear door after repairing the damage (lots and and lots and lots of sanding!) then given it a wee polish. I'm quite impressed with the results, especially from my unskilled hands.
Cheers,
Colin
So far i've painted the noise and front gear door after repairing the damage (lots and and lots and lots of sanding!) then given it a wee polish. I'm quite impressed with the results, especially from my unskilled hands.
Cheers,
Colin
03-01-2011 | 06:03 PM
#24
RE: Help, how do i fix this? (pics!)
Nice work indeed.
Repairs like that can actually be a lot of fun. I always have trouble getting started with a repair for some reason, (probably the dissapointment of dinging a model), but once underway, I quite enjoy the process. And when it goes well and your model is back to pristine, there's the pay back...
Roger
Repairs like that can actually be a lot of fun. I always have trouble getting started with a repair for some reason, (probably the dissapointment of dinging a model), but once underway, I quite enjoy the process. And when it goes well and your model is back to pristine, there's the pay back...
Roger
