Ali, don't think you set up your TAGS01 gyro properly, ask a Heli pilot !

Good save, smooth as silk.

I have to say, what a smooth talker that MC was. He sounded like the whole thing was planned.

Regarding the clap, looks like a bunch of older guys, so must have been a mid week event

LOL I once placed a Gyro backwards on a pattern plane un Rudder.....................what a joy ride!

After the snap the jet came up inverted and kind of hung there for a sec before it started flying again. I was wondering what effect the flaps had...if any... on an inverted wing?? I am quite surprised that this jet did not snap again in the inverted hold before it started flying again.Ali was probably at full power which did help a great deal...i would definately be picking up pieces if i was at the controls...

V..

Hey guys.. Thanks for the compliments on the save. It was an interesting few moments to say the least! Not one that I would like to run through again in a hurry. Let me try and explain what went on from my view point...

I have had maybe 25 flights with the T bird so far, and am pretty well aware of how they can depart. I used to own a heavy P60 powered BVM one back in the day, and that really kept you on your toes when it came to slow speed stuff. So far this Skymaster T-33 has never once bitten me, or even given the slightest suggestion that it would. However, I do try and keep the slow speed element of my flight restricted to low bank angles and smooth inputs. When the model departed as it did in the video I was travelling at a fair rate, and with considerably more power than I would normally carry into a knife edge or slow roll with the same plane. The reason for this, was also the only real variable with this flight, and that was the extended gear. It appears as if in the hot weather ( Well hot for the UK) I blew and airline on the upside of the nose gear. This resulted in my gear dropping on the first curcuit of the flight. I decided that I did not want to land with full tanks ( even though I hate flying a jet with the gear extended ) , So I would try to burn some fuel off. One of the first passes I thought that I would try was a banking pass ( we call it a Farnborough pass ) As it would hide the gear being out. I noticed that I was having to carry lots more power into the curcuit and factored this down to the extended gear. Thinking back on it, I now know why I need so much power when I am fully dirty with the T-bird on landing.
As I rolled onto the desired bank angle and applied a small amount of rudder to hold, I straight away noticed that the model wanted to roll with rudder. I do remember thinking that this was odd, as normally the T-bird is a super precise model that requires zero mixing. Before I knew it I noticed that the model was climbing on knife edge, and looked as if it was starting the first quadrant of a knife edge loop.... Not a manoeuvre that I would ever try with a T-33!
Before I knew it, the first of the flicks ensued. From there on, I was a bit of a spectator for the first and second flick. I said to my caller Stevo that I was sure the rudder had jammed hard over to the right ( Top rudder) and that was what was causing the flicks.
I remember thinking to myself " Give up on it, and shut the turbine off as it was in the second flick going for the third" I knew I had control and that it was not a radio issue as I could see my ailerons moving, so I thought I would try and fight it and at least get it down as softly as possible ( I remember thinking just put it inverted in the grass and maybe save some of the internals ) Full opposite control stopped the 3rd flick going for a 4th and thats when it stopped inverted and flew away... I am still amazed that it did not drop a wing again, as it was pretty slow and damn low. As I was flying away inverted, I was looking for the big yaw that would be associated with a jammed rudder. That never came, so I rolled it upright and made as good a job of the landing as I could.
On closer inspection, all systems were working as expected. The rudder was tested vigorously, and centred every time. The more I think about it, the more I am sure that whatever happened ( I am still not fully sure, and I have watched the video a few times now) was a result of the extra drag of the gear being extended. The T-33 gear is pretty stout. It has big main wheels and the gear doors are quite a size, and the mains are heavily angled outwards. Looking at it, the surface area of the main doors is actually larger than the rudder and elevators combined. I think my over spirited flying with the gear down caused the flick to occur.
It is interesting to read that the full size has such limitations. Thanks for that feed back guys.

I can assure those reading that what occurred was almost certainly pilot error on my behalf. It had nothing to do with Gyros ( As the model is not fitted with any) Nothing to do with the down wind turn ( As I was heading into wind at the time) [:-] and nothing to do with me showing off... I only wish that I could do that manoeuvre on demand... Although never with a scale classic like a T-33!

Regards Al

Amazing save.. Thanks for the video and comments guys.

Ali, you may have not meant to show off, but you truly did.
You showed off your amazing skills on that save.

Great save Ali. Reminded me of your save close to the fence. Both saved going inverted !

Many years ago, while doing a Knife Edge with a Ducted Fan BVM- T33, one of the inlet ducts imploded. Of course, total destruction of the power unit.
There are some weird strong aerodynamic forces going on during that maneuver in the T-33, I guess.

Jack

Al
This was a very entertaining video and thread.
I especially liked your take on the whole event and the discussion from your point of view as to what happened and why.
I admire your tenacity on the sticks!
"keep bending them sticks until all the pieces hit the ground!"
Well done!
Art

Betcha # 1 didn't even bat an eyelid!!!!

Just goes to show that a good scale model of a full-size bird inherits that aircraft's tendencies as well. Fantastic flying, sir!

I think Ali deliberately timed the saving when it was upside down to hype up the excitement, twice

good save Ali!

No worries Art. I am happy to share my flying experiences with you guys.... The good and the bad ones. For me, thats one of the best functions of a forum such as RCU. if I can stop just one person making the same mistake as me, then thats great.
I used to give up easily on situations like this, but just recently I have taken a different attitude in that I keep fighting it till the last. I guess it worked on this occasion.., yet I am still amazed that it didnt drop a wing when it exited inverted as it was going pretty slowly, and was almost full of fuel.


RCJetBazz.. I am always looking for ways to spice up a jet flight, but think even this would be a step too far

Hey Jack.. I am just hoping that if I ever end up the right way up I wont forget what I have to do


Regards Al

Fully understood, glad you were able to regain control when you did, (the 3rd flick, when the departure becomes milder but barely enough altitude and airspeed while inverted and full of fuel) great save Ali!

I was fairly sure you would not mind me posting the link Ali, there's a lot can be learned from watching the video, not least of which is never stop flying them.

I also think that although events transpired against you the layout of the model, in particular the large tip tanks, may just have also helped in delaying any tip stall onset. Of course you still need one of those weirdly hard wired brains that maybe only a few have to take advantage of that fleeting window of opportunity in which such a save is possible.

I've maybe only had one occasion where one of my own jets has looked destined for the deck but somehow survived. Depending on how certain a prang looks I know a point is reached where I shut the engine down to try to minimise the severity at ground zero, thankfully rare these days.

Rob.

One thing when your airplane does the funky chicken...let go of the sticks! We usually "control' it right into the ground and never give it a chance to resume flying. Once you let go the problem usually goes away and allows us to fly out of the unusual attitude. I've used the technique in real ones and models both. I had a T-43 (B-737) stall (unintended) once on maintenance check flight and it rolled upside down. I let go of the yoke, the nose dropped and let the airspeed build. Once above the speed where it stalled I rolled upright and recovered. It was so much fun I climbed up and did it again. Oh, yeah, it failed the check.

Hahaha !!!

Ali, watching the video again, and remembering the inlet implosion during the knife edge in my T-33; my theory is that there is a very very low pressure generated by the front of the fuselage at a certain angle of attack (when on its side of course). That nose section is thin and tall.
That could explain both incidents.
What I wonder is, why it doesn't happen always when in knife edge.
Probably, if done at higher speed, the lower angle of attack needed to hold altitude does not generate the sudden vacuum. ????? Any thoughts?

Now that you have experience with the recovery, I guess you can experiment with different speeds.... but higher.... LOL.

Jack

Two of us watched the video in detail. We both believe that it is part of a perfect choreographed maneuvers of Ail's! I have something like it with my maneuvers in my pattern sequence. Beautiful Ali!!

<div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); padding-top: 5px; padding-right: 5px; padding-bottom: 5px; padding-left: 5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">If you could have done that in a 3D competition you would have cleaned up. 

The all new Machinchy 360 back flip. Camera zooms to the flight line and you just spit tobacco on the floor like Clint Eastwood in a Fist Full of Dollars and say 'oo wants it'</div>

Spoke to him straight after.
Trust me...this was not planned!

Paul