Classic Flash Tips?
11-14-2011 | 06:34 PM
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From: River Oaks,
TX
Classic Flash Tips?
Hey guys - what is the latest and greatest dialed in settings for the classic Flash? I have the manual but seem to remember something about full flap blanking out the elevator and to use a little crow and less than full flap for landing? Power is Rabbit (for now 
) and guided by JR 9303.
Looking forward to hearing from the classic flash gurus (esp if you have access to measurements!)
Thanks in advance!
Smitty
) and guided by JR 9303. Looking forward to hearing from the classic flash gurus (esp if you have access to measurements!)
Thanks in advance!
Smitty
11-14-2011 | 07:26 PM
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From: Broken Arrow,
OK
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
Keep the landing flap LESS than 45deg, it really does'nt need much and too much makes it twitchy. The crow is not necessary but really helps set a nice AOA on landing ( about 10mm ). Also don't be afraid to push the cg forward, makes a big difference on how well the plane tracks, I am probably 5-10mm farther forward than recommended. The plane rotates fine and lands good but the flight performance is much more rock solid and still has no issue with wanting to stall fast.
11-14-2011 | 09:24 PM
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From: Bakersfield, CA
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
I have noticed, in a high speed turn, the nose seems to fall. Its in full bank, and the nose would start pointing down. Uncomfortable feeling. Thought it was due to a little nose bias.
11-14-2011 | 11:19 PM
#4
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
The 365mm forward of the tip tank for me is spot on (OK it's my balance point 
) and most of the guys here use it. Just you need lots of elevator expo...45% up and 55% down
Flaps-take-off 15-16mm and landing 25-30mm. 8-10mm CROW is a good thing on this aeroplane. Other than that instruction figures will get you in the air. As always, you need to set them to suit your brain and thumbs!
Dave W
) and most of the guys here use it. Just you need lots of elevator expo...45% up and 55% down Flaps-take-off 15-16mm and landing 25-30mm. 8-10mm CROW is a good thing on this aeroplane. Other than that instruction figures will get you in the air. As always, you need to set them to suit your brain and thumbs!
Dave W
11-15-2011 | 05:05 AM
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From: Broken Arrow,
OK
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
ORIGINAL: indubitably
I have noticed, in a high speed turn, the nose seems to fall. Its in full bank, and the nose would start pointing down. Uncomfortable feeling. Thought it was due to a little nose bias.
I have noticed, in a high speed turn, the nose seems to fall. Its in full bank, and the nose would start pointing down. Uncomfortable feeling. Thought it was due to a little nose bias.
11-15-2011 | 05:30 AM
#6
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
ORIGINAL: indubitably
I have noticed, in a high speed turn, the nose seems to fall. Its in full bank, and the nose would start pointing down. Uncomfortable feeling. Thought it was due to a little nose bias.
I have noticed, in a high speed turn, the nose seems to fall. Its in full bank, and the nose would start pointing down. Uncomfortable feeling. Thought it was due to a little nose bias.
never experienced the nose digging in turns (or at all) with my classic flash, especially at high speed, what is your CG currently?
11-15-2011 | 06:04 AM
#7
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
I have never experienced the nose dropping on my Flash either. I flew my Classic Flash 90 flights or so on a Rabbit and it was a pure joy to fly with that power setup. Just keep it as light as possilble with the Rabbit and you will love it. I didn't even use the wing tank as the Rabbit is so good on fuel burn. My setup was pretty much what Dave has noted. 221/2 degrees of takeoff flap and 45 degrees full landing flap. I had my crow set to 6mm (to suit my flying style) but 10mm works just as well. Speed with the Rabbit was around 175 - 180 on a level pass and vertical was quite good.
I now have the Flash powered with a Cheetah which makes the plane a lot faster but also a bit more difficult to land. Also uses a lot more fuel. It would be really hard for me to pick between the Rabbit or the Cheetah in this plane, just depends on your type of flying.
I now have the Flash powered with a Cheetah which makes the plane a lot faster but also a bit more difficult to land. Also uses a lot more fuel. It would be really hard for me to pick between the Rabbit or the Cheetah in this plane, just depends on your type of flying.
11-15-2011 | 01:40 PM
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From: River Oaks,
TX
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
Great stuff guys, couple things: 1) are the flap throws measured near the wing root and the ailerons at the wing tip? How about elevator? Inboard? 2) I normally don't use much expo, usually 15% or so, do you still recommend those higher expo settings?
Thanks!
Thanks!
11-15-2011 | 01:49 PM
#9
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
yes on measuring the Flap angle throws, but I just use a deflection gauge to measure angle. I also measure elevator throw at the root. The alerons are measured at the tip. Don't remember what my elevator throw is (can measure it if you need) but it isn't a lot. I find the elevator on the Classic Fash is very effective and can in fact be pitch sensitive if your CG is a little aft. As for Expo, I use about 30%, but that is more of a personal thing I think.
11-15-2011 | 01:52 PM
#10
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
Trailing edge root measurements. Elevator needs... the expo. Its a super powerful control surface, If you like really around the centre stick control, you could go down 10% on each up-down, but I would try it first as it really smooths things out. The wing is thick so it slows well, but let the speed bleed off before dumping full flap, the AB section about the flap does not want high speed air spilling out from it. If i'm going to fly a long down wind final, I go TO flap down wind and complete the down wind and part of the cross wind leg before full flap, once its slowed down the CF is pretty stable on the approach.
Dw
Dw
11-15-2011 | 02:52 PM
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From: Vernon,
NJ
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
I have never experienced the nose dropping either. Here is my set up in inches
Ailerons = 5/8" up 11/16" down
Elevator = 1"
Flaps are 3/4" for take off and 1 3/4" for landing
Rudder = 2"
Crow ailerons = 1/2" with 1 3/4" flaps
My CG is at the 370 mark.
I use 35% expo on everything but the elevator, the elevator I am using 55%. Either my elevator is twitchy or my hands are shaking
.
I hardly ever land with just the flaps any more now that I have the crow dialed in. It will slow down to a crawl and is rock solid no tip stall.
I have round 90 flights on it and I love it more and more each time I fly it!!!!!!
Ailerons = 5/8" up 11/16" down
Elevator = 1"
Flaps are 3/4" for take off and 1 3/4" for landing
Rudder = 2"
Crow ailerons = 1/2" with 1 3/4" flaps
My CG is at the 370 mark.
I use 35% expo on everything but the elevator, the elevator I am using 55%. Either my elevator is twitchy or my hands are shaking
.I hardly ever land with just the flaps any more now that I have the crow dialed in. It will slow down to a crawl and is rock solid no tip stall.
I have round 90 flights on it and I love it more and more each time I fly it!!!!!!
11-15-2011 | 02:55 PM
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From: Bowling Green, KY
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
I based my cg at 365 with a full uat and gear down, also at 365 I had it just slighty on the tail low side.
30* landing flap... No takeoff setting needed, just have it on a slow speed, one less thing to mess with. Takeoff roll full up until rotation to make the best of a short takeoff roll, similar to an f-4.. Unless you have the power like mine did at 35lbs and I just kept full up for a sweet looking hill climb. Also crow isn't needed for aoa... Go to YouTube and search Justin Tidwell, a few videos down you will see a video from kyjets on how mine flew. I also never used more than 15% expo on any of the surfaces.
30* landing flap... No takeoff setting needed, just have it on a slow speed, one less thing to mess with. Takeoff roll full up until rotation to make the best of a short takeoff roll, similar to an f-4.. Unless you have the power like mine did at 35lbs and I just kept full up for a sweet looking hill climb. Also crow isn't needed for aoa... Go to YouTube and search Justin Tidwell, a few videos down you will see a video from kyjets on how mine flew. I also never used more than 15% expo on any of the surfaces.
11-15-2011 | 02:57 PM
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From: Bowling Green, KY
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
Here's a link, was able to find it on my phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eNSb...e_gdata_player
Also, I too have noticed the nose fall out in very high speed flight, but only when fast, like fast enough that the elevator even blanks out and you have to pull the throttle back to pull up, but that was when I was flying it in columbia, can't reach those speeds in the us ya know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eNSb...e_gdata_player
Also, I too have noticed the nose fall out in very high speed flight, but only when fast, like fast enough that the elevator even blanks out and you have to pull the throttle back to pull up, but that was when I was flying it in columbia, can't reach those speeds in the us ya know.
11-15-2011 | 08:43 PM
#14
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
Hi guys,
I have the standard Blue Angels Flash originally with a PST 800 but now repowered with a 1300.
Problem I have is getting it to rotate quickly especially off grass, it tends to compress the noseleg (ProLynx with Blue spring) and assume a neg angle and truffle hunt 80+ meters before rotation requiring heaps of elevator to rotate. Did it with both motors and the 1300 was fitted thinking it was a power issue...normal flight once airborne and landing is perfect.
Can someone help please with suggestions on AoA on ground, stiffer nose spring, takeoff technique?
Thanks heaps
Rene
I have the standard Blue Angels Flash originally with a PST 800 but now repowered with a 1300.
Problem I have is getting it to rotate quickly especially off grass, it tends to compress the noseleg (ProLynx with Blue spring) and assume a neg angle and truffle hunt 80+ meters before rotation requiring heaps of elevator to rotate. Did it with both motors and the 1300 was fitted thinking it was a power issue...normal flight once airborne and landing is perfect.
Can someone help please with suggestions on AoA on ground, stiffer nose spring, takeoff technique?
Thanks heaps
Rene
11-16-2011 | 08:02 AM
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From: Las Vegas,
NV
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
Justin, I am interested in hearing about your elevator blanking out at high speeds. I have 228 flights on my Flash and have not experienced this as of yet, and I have hauled the mail on more than a few occasions. What "out of the country" speeds we talking about here?
11-16-2011 | 09:22 AM
#17
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RE: Classic Flash Tips?
ORIGINAL: sailing1
I have never experienced the nose dropping on my Flash either. I flew my Classic Flash 90 flights or so on a Rabbit and it was a pure joy to fly with that power setup. Just keep it as light as possilble with the Rabbit and you will love it. I didn't even use the wing tank as the Rabbit is so good on fuel burn. My setup was pretty much what Dave has noted. 221/2 degrees of takeoff flap and 45 degrees full landing flap. I had my crow set to 6mm (to suit my flying style) but 10mm works just as well. Speed with the Rabbit was around 175 - 180 on a level pass and vertical was quite good.
I now have the Flash powered with a Cheetah which makes the plane a lot faster but also a bit more difficult to land. Also uses a lot more fuel. It would be really hard for me to pick between the Rabbit or the Cheetah in this plane, just depends on your type of flying.
I have never experienced the nose dropping on my Flash either. I flew my Classic Flash 90 flights or so on a Rabbit and it was a pure joy to fly with that power setup. Just keep it as light as possilble with the Rabbit and you will love it. I didn't even use the wing tank as the Rabbit is so good on fuel burn. My setup was pretty much what Dave has noted. 221/2 degrees of takeoff flap and 45 degrees full landing flap. I had my crow set to 6mm (to suit my flying style) but 10mm works just as well. Speed with the Rabbit was around 175 - 180 on a level pass and vertical was quite good.
I now have the Flash powered with a Cheetah which makes the plane a lot faster but also a bit more difficult to land. Also uses a lot more fuel. It would be really hard for me to pick between the Rabbit or the Cheetah in this plane, just depends on your type of flying.
Need to keep it as light as possible for short field ops (300ft) runway with poor approaches. Very tempted to buynew RABBIT 100 in it (22lbs) on one fuel tank, tams pipe, minimum of electronics but, have a P-120SX here that is not being used. I'd estimate the plane being a good 2lbs plus heavier with the P-120 plus the extra tank and fuel. Would sure be a lot faster but, how much would my short field ops ability suffer?
Mike
11-16-2011 | 09:36 AM
#18
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
Mike, What you describe was almost my exact setup before I put in the Cheetah. My Flash had the original propane start Rabbit at 19 lbs thrust, tams pipe and weighed right at 21 1/2 lbs dry. I did add a custom sump to the main tank which gave me about 22 extra ounces of fuel. Was flying off a 400 ft paved runway but really only needed a couple hundred with this setup. My Flash with the Cheetah is harder to land as there is quite a bit of residual thrust but I would bet the new Rabbit would be perfect for the Flash.
11-16-2011 | 10:12 AM
#19
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
My CF being the third from the mould is heavy, I think 23-24lb. It has a P-120 none SE or SX and I have flown it since 2006 from 90m of grass...we have 3 or 4 others with P-120's flying from the same club site
All have stock gear and nose leg... It needs to sit nose level worst and actually fractionally nose high is better...fractionally.
In this club is Steve Roberts and my CF , the two airframes 11-1200 flights...no nose dropping or elevator blanking...
Dw
All have stock gear and nose leg... It needs to sit nose level worst and actually fractionally nose high is better...fractionally.
In this club is Steve Roberts and my CF , the two airframes 11-1200 flights...no nose dropping or elevator blanking...
Dw
11-16-2011 | 10:48 AM
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From: Wooburn Green, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
Dave,
Funny that because I used to own said Thunderbirds CF. Of the dozen flights I had on it I can assure you it happens! Even so in that the last time I watched it fly at CJ it was doing it!
Basically what happens, in a clean flight mode at moderate speeds, during banking, be it left or right, the nose digs into the corner. It is visually obvious to a keen eye. I don't believe it has anything to do with CofG, it is just an aerodynamic flight characteristic of the CF. I know for sure that the UF doesn't have this tendancy. It wasn't just my CF that did this.
Before the 'dissers' come out I think you'll agree that both 'SE' and I have a reasonable amount of experience in such matters.
Just my thoughts/experiences.
Rob
Funny that because I used to own said Thunderbirds CF. Of the dozen flights I had on it I can assure you it happens! Even so in that the last time I watched it fly at CJ it was doing it!
Basically what happens, in a clean flight mode at moderate speeds, during banking, be it left or right, the nose digs into the corner. It is visually obvious to a keen eye. I don't believe it has anything to do with CofG, it is just an aerodynamic flight characteristic of the CF. I know for sure that the UF doesn't have this tendancy. It wasn't just my CF that did this.
Before the 'dissers' come out I think you'll agree that both 'SE' and I have a reasonable amount of experience in such matters.
Just my thoughts/experiences.
Rob
11-16-2011 | 12:12 PM
#21
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
Mike,
Here's a video of my c/flash flying from grass P120 powered, two fuel tanks, jet 1A legs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxPnz...e_gdata_player
Here's a video of my c/flash flying from grass P120 powered, two fuel tanks, jet 1A legs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxPnz...e_gdata_player
11-16-2011 | 03:07 PM
#22
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
Not a "disser", just a guy with a bucket load of flights on a Classic Flash. And I would guess that the "keen eye" thing is sort of like the "eye of the beholder" thing, so I certainly couldn't say whose eye was more right. But my eye has never seen that in my Flash also a Thunderbird scheme (go figure). I will say it gets a little harder to hold on to when approaching warp speed while yanking and banking, but to the eye of this beholder it still does not dip it's nose. But that is just my plane and my eye. As they say (whoever "they are"), results may vary!
11-22-2011 | 08:51 PM
#25
RE: Classic Flash Tips?
ORIGINAL: Skymac
Here's a link, was able to find it on my phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eNSb...e_gdata_player
Also, I too have noticed the nose fall out in very high speed flight, but only when fast, like fast enough that the elevator even blanks out and you have to pull the throttle back to pull up, but that was when I was flying it in columbia, can't reach those speeds in the us ya know.
Here's a link, was able to find it on my phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eNSb...e_gdata_player
Also, I too have noticed the nose fall out in very high speed flight, but only when fast, like fast enough that the elevator even blanks out and you have to pull the throttle back to pull up, but that was when I was flying it in columbia, can't reach those speeds in the us ya know.
