Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
04-16-2013, 04:21 PM
#501
Thread Starter
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: rwwinter
Dubd sorry for the loss of your wonderful Tomcat!
I have now 44 flights on my Tomcat (no honeycomb). I fly my plane gently including loops, rolls and split S. The complete rear bulkhead was stiffened with glass before the first flight. Servos are Futaba BLS152. Engines are two Frank Raptor with more than 200NM each.
I found that the Tailerons developed more slop after each flight. I checked the complete system and was not able to find the error. Finally I put the Taileron pivot into a bench vise and BINGO... Both Tailerons had developed play. I was able to move the surface up and down by hand using medium force approx. 1.5degrees.
Perhaps this could led to the behavior shown in the video?
Rudi
Dubd sorry for the loss of your wonderful Tomcat!
I have now 44 flights on my Tomcat (no honeycomb). I fly my plane gently including loops, rolls and split S. The complete rear bulkhead was stiffened with glass before the first flight. Servos are Futaba BLS152. Engines are two Frank Raptor with more than 200NM each.
I found that the Tailerons developed more slop after each flight. I checked the complete system and was not able to find the error. Finally I put the Taileron pivot into a bench vise and BINGO... Both Tailerons had developed play. I was able to move the surface up and down by hand using medium force approx. 1.5degrees.
Perhaps this could led to the behavior shown in the video?
Rudi
04-16-2013, 04:23 PM
#502
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RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
John,
Thanks for the explanation. It 'helps' in the sense that I now know that some people mean 'balanced on the pivot' when they say ''mass-balanced'', but it leaves me more confused because it seems to ignore everything I wrote after ''...does 'mass-balanced' mean...''
You're saying they're balanced on the pivot, then un-balanced to make it feel better for the pilot? Not only do I not get that, but it seems a demonstration that the surface is, in fact, not balanced on the pivot. Anyone who's ever pulled on the yoke of a piper aircraft knows that the stab is QUITE tail-heavy until the prop-wash aerodynamically balances it. In fact, that aero-balancing seems effective enough that they put a tab on it that resists your input and gives it some force-feel.
It may not seem like it, but I'm really trying to understand this.
John,
Thanks for the explanation. It 'helps' in the sense that I now know that some people mean 'balanced on the pivot' when they say ''mass-balanced'', but it leaves me more confused because it seems to ignore everything I wrote after ''...does 'mass-balanced' mean...''
You're saying they're balanced on the pivot, then un-balanced to make it feel better for the pilot? Not only do I not get that, but it seems a demonstration that the surface is, in fact, not balanced on the pivot. Anyone who's ever pulled on the yoke of a piper aircraft knows that the stab is QUITE tail-heavy until the prop-wash aerodynamically balances it. In fact, that aero-balancing seems effective enough that they put a tab on it that resists your input and gives it some force-feel.It may not seem like it, but I'm really trying to understand this.
I could be wrong, but think of this example: I balanced the stabs on my 1/7 F-18F, so well in fact that the JR 8711 servos had a hard time determining their "center". They would hunt back and forth until a load was placed on them, then they would lock in. I think he is saying the same thing. If the stabs are perfectly balanced there is no feel. Leave them just slightly out of balance and the feel returns. Overall they are balanced, just not completely neutral. I eventually took a little of the weight out of my stabs to create the same effect and the servos stopped the chatter.
David S
04-16-2013, 04:25 PM
#503
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: David Searles
Sean,
I could be wrong, but think of this example: I balanced the stabs on my 1/7 F-18F, so well in fact that the JR 8711 servos had a hard time determining their ''center''. They would hunt back and forth until a load was placed on them, then they would lock in. I think he is saying the same thing. If the stabs are perfectly balanced there is no feel. Leave them just slightly out of balance and the feel returns. Overall they are balanced, just not completely neutral.
David S
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
John,
Thanks for the explanation. It 'helps' in the sense that I now know that some people mean 'balanced on the pivot' when they say ''mass-balanced'', but it leaves me more confused because it seems to ignore everything I wrote after ''...does 'mass-balanced' mean...'' You're saying they're balanced on the pivot, then un-balanced to make it feel better for the pilot? Not only do I not get that, but it seems a demonstration that the surface is, in fact, not balanced on the pivot. Anyone who's ever pulled on the yoke of a piper aircraft knows that the stab is QUITE tail-heavy until the prop-wash aerodynamically balances it. In fact, that aero-balancing seems effective enough that they put a tab on it that resists your input and gives it some force-feel.
It may not seem like it, but I'm really trying to understand this.
John,
Thanks for the explanation. It 'helps' in the sense that I now know that some people mean 'balanced on the pivot' when they say ''mass-balanced'', but it leaves me more confused because it seems to ignore everything I wrote after ''...does 'mass-balanced' mean...''
You're saying they're balanced on the pivot, then un-balanced to make it feel better for the pilot? Not only do I not get that, but it seems a demonstration that the surface is, in fact, not balanced on the pivot. Anyone who's ever pulled on the yoke of a piper aircraft knows that the stab is QUITE tail-heavy until the prop-wash aerodynamically balances it. In fact, that aero-balancing seems effective enough that they put a tab on it that resists your input and gives it some force-feel.It may not seem like it, but I'm really trying to understand this.
I could be wrong, but think of this example: I balanced the stabs on my 1/7 F-18F, so well in fact that the JR 8711 servos had a hard time determining their ''center''. They would hunt back and forth until a load was placed on them, then they would lock in. I think he is saying the same thing. If the stabs are perfectly balanced there is no feel. Leave them just slightly out of balance and the feel returns. Overall they are balanced, just not completely neutral.
David S
David,
Aerodynamic balance is more important than static balance.
I never balance any of my Super Hornet stabs. But none ever fail even over 200mph dive.
04-16-2013, 04:45 PM
#504
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Without getting too deep into the honeycomb technology and getting off-track, there are a few basic considerations. What material was used in the honeycomb? Did that material have substantial tensile strength for its intended purpose? Was it too brittle a material? While the honeycomb pattern/design can provide strength, the material that it is made of is just as important to the integrity of the structure. One honeycomb structure can vastly differ in strength and stiffness than another when made of a different material. Engineers have already addressed that the honeycomb material was not used correctly, so no need to comment further. They know better than most, and have rendered their opinion.
Additionally, the slowed-down video reveals conclusive evidence that the F-14 had a structural failure due to design flaws which allowed flutter to manifest and cause the crash. Over a short period of time, the aerodynamic stresses overcame the weak and improperly designed structure. I'm sure there were smaller instances of flutter that were not visually apparent on earlier flights, nor detrimental to the jet. But each instance further weakened the structure until the catastrophic failure that was captured on the video. Until the video was slowed-down, the flutter was impossible to see. But now we know there was flutter that resonated from small waves to larger waves, and brought down the jet within seconds.
These jets are simply too big and heavy to be produced with the same building techniques of .40 and .60 sized prop planes. Moreover, they need to be designed by real engineers, and undergo a fair amount of stress testing. Testing that uses meters, and calculations, and approved engineering standards. Not some picture of sand bags sitting on top of wings or some guy pressing his hand down on a wing! Real R&D will tell you at what pressure point, or G force the structure failed. How is some guy pressing down on a wing going to tell you anything!? What amount of force did he put on that wing? Two pounds per square foot, or just in his words, "a lot." Strange how the Chinese manufacturers call that testing, and consider themselves engineers. Flying a plane as gently as flying a Piper Cub is not testing a plane. That is not what R&D is all about. Especially when their jets are sold to consumers and have a high rate of flight failures.
If other industries acted as many of these Chinese jet companies have, baby cribs and automobiles wouldn't be recalled for safety issues. Car brakes would fail, seatbelts wouldn't hold, cars would uncontrollably accelerate to 100 mph ... all that and more, yet the manufacturers would not do anything to change the product, and the poor consumer would be stuck. Since that wouldn't be right, and other companies do recall their unsafe products, no one should accept this type behavior from any manufacturer. This hobby is no exception.
So, someone looking at, or thinking of buying one of these jets is taken-in by the paint job, or the fact that it is large, or that it is an illustrious F-14, F-18, F-16. He knows of the manufacturers known defects, yet is persuaded by the pretty paint job, the salesmen's rhetoric, and the desire to own and fly a large jet. Next thing you know, all common sense and reasoning goes out the window. In the end, the poor guy buys the jet in the hopes that he defied the odds, and his jet is one of the few that is made correctly. A good salesman can sell ice cubes to Eskimo's.
The below picture is not an example of structural testing. Besides being primitive, it is not an acceptable, applicable, or a parctical test. Yet that is what Chinese manufacturers demonstrate as, and call their testing methods. Flexing a wing with your hand does nothing, nor does it prove anything. Can that person tell us how much load was put on the structure? At what point did it jam, fail, or snap? At what "G" load did it fail? What are the areodynamic loads on each part of the jet during flight? How do you know your hand flexing of the wing even came near the structural load that is imposed on the structure during flight? The only way to know any of those answers would have been to put meters on.
Additionally, the slowed-down video reveals conclusive evidence that the F-14 had a structural failure due to design flaws which allowed flutter to manifest and cause the crash. Over a short period of time, the aerodynamic stresses overcame the weak and improperly designed structure. I'm sure there were smaller instances of flutter that were not visually apparent on earlier flights, nor detrimental to the jet. But each instance further weakened the structure until the catastrophic failure that was captured on the video. Until the video was slowed-down, the flutter was impossible to see. But now we know there was flutter that resonated from small waves to larger waves, and brought down the jet within seconds.
These jets are simply too big and heavy to be produced with the same building techniques of .40 and .60 sized prop planes. Moreover, they need to be designed by real engineers, and undergo a fair amount of stress testing. Testing that uses meters, and calculations, and approved engineering standards. Not some picture of sand bags sitting on top of wings or some guy pressing his hand down on a wing! Real R&D will tell you at what pressure point, or G force the structure failed. How is some guy pressing down on a wing going to tell you anything!? What amount of force did he put on that wing? Two pounds per square foot, or just in his words, "a lot." Strange how the Chinese manufacturers call that testing, and consider themselves engineers. Flying a plane as gently as flying a Piper Cub is not testing a plane. That is not what R&D is all about. Especially when their jets are sold to consumers and have a high rate of flight failures.
If other industries acted as many of these Chinese jet companies have, baby cribs and automobiles wouldn't be recalled for safety issues. Car brakes would fail, seatbelts wouldn't hold, cars would uncontrollably accelerate to 100 mph ... all that and more, yet the manufacturers would not do anything to change the product, and the poor consumer would be stuck. Since that wouldn't be right, and other companies do recall their unsafe products, no one should accept this type behavior from any manufacturer. This hobby is no exception.
So, someone looking at, or thinking of buying one of these jets is taken-in by the paint job, or the fact that it is large, or that it is an illustrious F-14, F-18, F-16. He knows of the manufacturers known defects, yet is persuaded by the pretty paint job, the salesmen's rhetoric, and the desire to own and fly a large jet. Next thing you know, all common sense and reasoning goes out the window. In the end, the poor guy buys the jet in the hopes that he defied the odds, and his jet is one of the few that is made correctly. A good salesman can sell ice cubes to Eskimo's.
The below picture is not an example of structural testing. Besides being primitive, it is not an acceptable, applicable, or a parctical test. Yet that is what Chinese manufacturers demonstrate as, and call their testing methods. Flexing a wing with your hand does nothing, nor does it prove anything. Can that person tell us how much load was put on the structure? At what point did it jam, fail, or snap? At what "G" load did it fail? What are the areodynamic loads on each part of the jet during flight? How do you know your hand flexing of the wing even came near the structural load that is imposed on the structure during flight? The only way to know any of those answers would have been to put meters on.
04-16-2013, 04:46 PM
#505
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: tamjets
David,
Aerodynamic balance is more important than static balance.
I never balance any of my Super Hornet stabs. But none ever fail even over 200mph dive.
David,
Aerodynamic balance is more important than static balance.
I never balance any of my Super Hornet stabs. But none ever fail even over 200mph dive.
+1
Hi,
The way Charles explained it to me is that FS F-18 stabs are designed to be aerodynamically balanced at a certain speed (ostensibly the 'average' speed the plane will fly over its lifetime). I am still not prepared to pretend I understand all this stuff so I'll just admit that I didn't balance mine (statically) because the A.E. Ph.D. that designed them told me not to...
04-16-2013, 05:05 PM
#506
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
The real problem is that we all know the designs of large jets that FEJ makes need to be engineered using science, stress tested using many crash test versions, and then re-engineered using MORE science once the weak points in each jet are discovered. Ask Bob Violet how much doing that to just ONE jet costs before release.
It's expensive. BV does it right. And he has the skill set and scientific acumen, AND IS WILLING TO SPEND THE MONEY. Andreas at COMP ARF does it right. And he has the skill set and scientific acumen, AND IS WILLING TO SPEND THE MONEY. Anton at Skymaster (generally) does it right. And he has the skill set and scientific acumen, AND IS WILLING TO SPEND THE MONEY.
FEJ does not do it right. And apparently they do NOT have the skill set and scientific acumen, AND THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO SPEND THE MONEY.
So the bottom line is they aren't going to change. I just counted 32 DIFFERENT jets available for purchase on FEJ site. Jiminy Christmas, the company is about 5 years old and they already have 32 types of jet frames for sale!!! You know how much in R&D and testing and science and engineering and crash testing jets that is in US dollars if they were to do it right? $$$MILLIONS$$$ !!!
Does ANYBODY here think FEJ are going to spend millions of dollars, go back, and start testing all 32 of their products?
NO
Look at Skymaster's website regarding their F14 and read their disclosure written in RED font almost at the bottom of the page. That paragraph saying they REFUSE TO RELEASE until the proper testing is done has been there for almost a year. For an ENTIRE year Anton has been watching FEJ make tons of money selling FEJ F14's and Anton has stood fast and true to his integrity and his testing and the Skymaster F14 is STILL not released because SM is not comfortable with it yet.
http://www.skymasterjet.com/f14.htm
THAT is what FEJ should do and never apparently never will. That is why it seems inevitable -heaven forbid- that sooner or later somebody will slam an FEJ jet that has lost control into a crowd of people.
And then we will ALL be selling our jets to Europeans:
"BVM F-100 for sale, fully loaded, RTF, $2500 includes shipping to anywhere in the world-the FAA banned turbines and must sell, please make offer. For the love of God, PLEASE make offer!!!!"
Shaz
It's expensive. BV does it right. And he has the skill set and scientific acumen, AND IS WILLING TO SPEND THE MONEY. Andreas at COMP ARF does it right. And he has the skill set and scientific acumen, AND IS WILLING TO SPEND THE MONEY. Anton at Skymaster (generally) does it right. And he has the skill set and scientific acumen, AND IS WILLING TO SPEND THE MONEY.
FEJ does not do it right. And apparently they do NOT have the skill set and scientific acumen, AND THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO SPEND THE MONEY.
So the bottom line is they aren't going to change. I just counted 32 DIFFERENT jets available for purchase on FEJ site. Jiminy Christmas, the company is about 5 years old and they already have 32 types of jet frames for sale!!! You know how much in R&D and testing and science and engineering and crash testing jets that is in US dollars if they were to do it right? $$$MILLIONS$$$ !!!
Does ANYBODY here think FEJ are going to spend millions of dollars, go back, and start testing all 32 of their products?
NO
Look at Skymaster's website regarding their F14 and read their disclosure written in RED font almost at the bottom of the page. That paragraph saying they REFUSE TO RELEASE until the proper testing is done has been there for almost a year. For an ENTIRE year Anton has been watching FEJ make tons of money selling FEJ F14's and Anton has stood fast and true to his integrity and his testing and the Skymaster F14 is STILL not released because SM is not comfortable with it yet.
http://www.skymasterjet.com/f14.htm
THAT is what FEJ should do and never apparently never will. That is why it seems inevitable -heaven forbid- that sooner or later somebody will slam an FEJ jet that has lost control into a crowd of people.
And then we will ALL be selling our jets to Europeans:
"BVM F-100 for sale, fully loaded, RTF, $2500 includes shipping to anywhere in the world-the FAA banned turbines and must sell, please make offer. For the love of God, PLEASE make offer!!!!"
Shaz
04-16-2013, 05:08 PM
#507
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: dubd
If someone gets hurt everyone asssociated with the sale will be sued. The lawyers will cast the net wide. If it happens at an event, the event organizer will also be sued.
ORIGINAL: invertmast
Heres a question, but since payment was through a broker more or less, at what point (if any) does the broker become inflicted in this entire case? Granted i dont think legal matters need to be brought up, but if this crash were to of inflicted personal or property damage, the victims could bring in legal matters to all those involved if they learned of a possible design/manufacturing defect that was ignored.
Heres a question, but since payment was through a broker more or less, at what point (if any) does the broker become inflicted in this entire case? Granted i dont think legal matters need to be brought up, but if this crash were to of inflicted personal or property damage, the victims could bring in legal matters to all those involved if they learned of a possible design/manufacturing defect that was ignored.
Shaz
04-16-2013, 05:10 PM
#508
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RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: tamjets
+1
The first thing FEJ should do is to see if the pivot of the stabs are at the right location.
This might cause the failure.
It ashame they get this far in the market and lack of engineering to find out what wrong to fix it.
At the end I hate too see another model manfacture fold because of fail to made it success.
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
John,
Thanks for the explanation. It 'helps' in the sense that I now know that some people mean 'balanced on the pivot' when they say ''mass-balanced'', but it leaves me more confused because it seems to ignore everything I wrote after ''...does 'mass-balanced' mean...'' You're saying they're balanced on the pivot, then un-balanced to make it feel better for the pilot? Not only do I not get that, but it seems a demonstration that the surface is, in fact, not balanced on the pivot. Anyone who's ever pulled on the yoke of a piper aircraft knows that the stab is QUITE tail-heavy until the prop-wash aerodynamically balances it. In fact, that aero-balancing seems effective enough that they put a tab on it that resists your input and gives it some force-feel.
It may not seem like it, but I'm really trying to understand this.
John,
Thanks for the explanation. It 'helps' in the sense that I now know that some people mean 'balanced on the pivot' when they say ''mass-balanced'', but it leaves me more confused because it seems to ignore everything I wrote after ''...does 'mass-balanced' mean...''
You're saying they're balanced on the pivot, then un-balanced to make it feel better for the pilot? Not only do I not get that, but it seems a demonstration that the surface is, in fact, not balanced on the pivot. Anyone who's ever pulled on the yoke of a piper aircraft knows that the stab is QUITE tail-heavy until the prop-wash aerodynamically balances it. In fact, that aero-balancing seems effective enough that they put a tab on it that resists your input and gives it some force-feel.It may not seem like it, but I'm really trying to understand this.
The first thing FEJ should do is to see if the pivot of the stabs are at the right location.
This might cause the failure.
It ashame they get this far in the market and lack of engineering to find out what wrong to fix it.
At the end I hate too see another model manfacture fold because of fail to made it success.
04-16-2013, 05:37 PM
#509
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: sskianpour
....the designs of large jets that FEJ makes need to be engineered using science....
....the designs of large jets that FEJ makes need to be engineered using science....
What a shame. I work (and have worked) with a lot of very talented engineers from China. If only FEJ would do the right thing and actually invest in making safe products. Heck no, CASH IS KING and they have your cash already.
As long as people continue to be bedazzled by the sparkling paint jobs, low prices, and the sales hype, FEJ will (as history shows) continue to dump their untried products on us. We buy this stuff at our own peril.
Regards,
Jim
04-16-2013, 05:39 PM
#510
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: EDFJim
The pivot point is at the center of pressure for the stab.
ORIGINAL: tamjets
+1
The first thing FEJ should do is to see if the pivot of the stabs are at the right location.
This might cause the failure.
It ashame they get this far in the market and lack of engineering to find out what wrong to fix it.
At the end I hate too see another model manfacture fold because of fail to made it success.
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
John,
Thanks for the explanation. It 'helps' in the sense that I now know that some people mean 'balanced on the pivot' when they say ''mass-balanced'', but it leaves me more confused because it seems to ignore everything I wrote after ''...does 'mass-balanced' mean...'' You're saying they're balanced on the pivot, then un-balanced to make it feel better for the pilot? Not only do I not get that, but it seems a demonstration that the surface is, in fact, not balanced on the pivot. Anyone who's ever pulled on the yoke of a piper aircraft knows that the stab is QUITE tail-heavy until the prop-wash aerodynamically balances it. In fact, that aero-balancing seems effective enough that they put a tab on it that resists your input and gives it some force-feel.
It may not seem like it, but I'm really trying to understand this.
John,
Thanks for the explanation. It 'helps' in the sense that I now know that some people mean 'balanced on the pivot' when they say ''mass-balanced'', but it leaves me more confused because it seems to ignore everything I wrote after ''...does 'mass-balanced' mean...''
You're saying they're balanced on the pivot, then un-balanced to make it feel better for the pilot? Not only do I not get that, but it seems a demonstration that the surface is, in fact, not balanced on the pivot. Anyone who's ever pulled on the yoke of a piper aircraft knows that the stab is QUITE tail-heavy until the prop-wash aerodynamically balances it. In fact, that aero-balancing seems effective enough that they put a tab on it that resists your input and gives it some force-feel.It may not seem like it, but I'm really trying to understand this.
The first thing FEJ should do is to see if the pivot of the stabs are at the right location.
This might cause the failure.
It ashame they get this far in the market and lack of engineering to find out what wrong to fix it.
At the end I hate too see another model manfacture fold because of fail to made it success.
This is something worth to investigate.
04-16-2013, 07:36 PM
#512
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
FEJ, James or Lowell, would you tell us the engineering method utilized in your honeycomb designs? It sure seems like you are getting a lot of bad press here on how you guys use honeycomb and since you are the experts of the product that you make, the readers and customers here would like to know your methodology in applying this technology. Please share with us your expert analysis of how you believe this material should be properly utilized to create a superior structure in your jets. RCU has had a lot of expert testimony on the subject. Would you be so kind as to offer yours? At least show us that you are interested in the topic and are willing to refute all of the negative claims made here on your behalf. Come on guys! Set the record straight! Stand behind your product with some arguments to the contrary!
We are all ears...Lets hear it!
We are all ears...Lets hear it!
04-16-2013, 08:43 PM
#513
Thread Starter
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
FEJ should respond to these guys too: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...100102&page=16
04-16-2013, 09:53 PM
#514
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Its hard reading all this and not getting upset. The lack of any response from FEJ is really disappointing. Its hard hearing guys defend the product and guys saying it could of been radio.
Can you imagine where Dantley would be without the video? He has video proof and its still the same verdict as if he had none. That’s like watching B1 Bobs 2400 videos and telling him he didn’t build a B1 bomber or 105!
So many guys have received deals from FEJ that they feel indebted to them at all cost. Some guys have gone all in with FEJ and have bet everything on them. Not only did Dantley loose a $20K jet but think about the loss to all these guys who are holding the FEJ bag. FEJ is not only ignoring Dantley but they are ignoring every single one of their customers. What are the customers going to do? sell my jet, fix my jet, how do I fix my jet, is there something wrong with it, maybe Im ok, its fine, just fly it, im not changing anything, nothing wrong with it, it wont crash.
Dantley was told a lot of things that weren’t true so who do you believe?
How do we help FEJ fix this problem? Do they even care? I think its overwhelmingly obvious FEJ was at fault here. The experts have spoken and FEJ has no rebuttal. Maybe there is a need for some sort of mediator. Someone who can step in a for resolution. Maybe we as a community could step in and fund an expert to review their procedures and make recommendations. Fund a mediator.
Its hard not to get mad and say fix the damn thing or we are not going to buy it, but there’s just too many "dealers" or shills in this hobby who will sell out if its pretty and cheap enough. They will know its destined to crash and still buy it if its pretty and cheap enough. know its crap and still sell it. Its like being a crackhead, you know its bad but just cant say no! Its getting better so don’t worry about it right?
Unfortunately so many new guys are drawn to these types of deals. I did the same thing when I got into ducted fan jets around 18 years ago. I thought I could make anything fly and bought a really pretty F16 that crashed on the first flight. piece of crap that looked awesome. Learned the hard way.
I also said at one time I would never buy a BVM jet and then ended up having 2 of every model at some point in time. I learned theres a difference.
You read all these post from new guys buying the latest FEJ and how they are going to cram the biggest motors possible into it and fly the crap out of it like a sunday flyer. all that enthusiasm destroyed when the gear dont work or the wings fold, flutter, etc. and its really funny how they go right back out and buy the same dang jet and do it again. Like there’s going to be a different outcome. The survival rate of FEJ has to be the worst hands down! "I can buy 3 of these jets for the cost of one of XXM models" yea, cause your going to end up doing that! They get all mad at you cause you try to help them and they think your being a "elitist know it all ass". No man, I been there, right where you are! made all the mistakes already.
I don’t want FEJ to go away. They are good for the hobby. How can we help them get out of this predicament and help them move forward? Maybe they don’t care? Seems that way. I think we all care. Look at the 20 pages of people who care.
This is our hobby. can we do anything to help?
I think they need to make right with Dantley first. I personally think Dantley is a great guy. Do you know how easy this would be to get right with Dantley? Do you know how important this is? He seems like the most laid back guy ever. Very professional, intelligent guy who loves this hobby. This guy is great for our hobby! And they are ignoring him. They have no clue.
After making right with Dantley I think they need to take some of the free professional help they are receiving. You have expert after expert review the video and and materials and give enormous amounts expert opinions. Stuff that would cost thousands to hire.
Free advise! I would be willing to bet money they could ask the forum guys anything and get better feedback than they could ever pay for.
They need to fix all the models that are out there asap so guys can get their stuff in the air and it be safe. Make it right, it’s the right thing to do!
After looking at the 20 plus page thread and seeing the xrays it doesn’t seem to appear anyone knows what they are doing down there. maybe just isolated issues as well.
Most models are probably fine. There might not even be that many models needing addendums. I have seen Ali fly the ÂĽ hawk bawls out. That jet seems tough!! The bigger jets and the twins should be looked at very carefully. anything with honeycomb formers.
I personally showed them how big the Big Hawk wheels should be and they fixed it immediately. I know they want to try.
So I guess what Im saying is Im offering to help, what can I do? How can we help you get back on track? How can we help you? We need you, let us help you.
If FEJ can get it together, make right with Dantley, improve their product line, and show some kind of customer service I will buy a jet from them. Ill put down a deposit asap! No more cover up no more hush money. own it and fix it!
If you don’t want any help and you don’t plan on reimbursing Dantley then I guess you can continue down the same road selling snake oil.
Scott Marr
Can you imagine where Dantley would be without the video? He has video proof and its still the same verdict as if he had none. That’s like watching B1 Bobs 2400 videos and telling him he didn’t build a B1 bomber or 105!
So many guys have received deals from FEJ that they feel indebted to them at all cost. Some guys have gone all in with FEJ and have bet everything on them. Not only did Dantley loose a $20K jet but think about the loss to all these guys who are holding the FEJ bag. FEJ is not only ignoring Dantley but they are ignoring every single one of their customers. What are the customers going to do? sell my jet, fix my jet, how do I fix my jet, is there something wrong with it, maybe Im ok, its fine, just fly it, im not changing anything, nothing wrong with it, it wont crash.
Dantley was told a lot of things that weren’t true so who do you believe?
How do we help FEJ fix this problem? Do they even care? I think its overwhelmingly obvious FEJ was at fault here. The experts have spoken and FEJ has no rebuttal. Maybe there is a need for some sort of mediator. Someone who can step in a for resolution. Maybe we as a community could step in and fund an expert to review their procedures and make recommendations. Fund a mediator.
Its hard not to get mad and say fix the damn thing or we are not going to buy it, but there’s just too many "dealers" or shills in this hobby who will sell out if its pretty and cheap enough. They will know its destined to crash and still buy it if its pretty and cheap enough. know its crap and still sell it. Its like being a crackhead, you know its bad but just cant say no! Its getting better so don’t worry about it right?
Unfortunately so many new guys are drawn to these types of deals. I did the same thing when I got into ducted fan jets around 18 years ago. I thought I could make anything fly and bought a really pretty F16 that crashed on the first flight. piece of crap that looked awesome. Learned the hard way.
I also said at one time I would never buy a BVM jet and then ended up having 2 of every model at some point in time. I learned theres a difference.
You read all these post from new guys buying the latest FEJ and how they are going to cram the biggest motors possible into it and fly the crap out of it like a sunday flyer. all that enthusiasm destroyed when the gear dont work or the wings fold, flutter, etc. and its really funny how they go right back out and buy the same dang jet and do it again. Like there’s going to be a different outcome. The survival rate of FEJ has to be the worst hands down! "I can buy 3 of these jets for the cost of one of XXM models" yea, cause your going to end up doing that! They get all mad at you cause you try to help them and they think your being a "elitist know it all ass". No man, I been there, right where you are! made all the mistakes already.
I don’t want FEJ to go away. They are good for the hobby. How can we help them get out of this predicament and help them move forward? Maybe they don’t care? Seems that way. I think we all care. Look at the 20 pages of people who care.
This is our hobby. can we do anything to help?
I think they need to make right with Dantley first. I personally think Dantley is a great guy. Do you know how easy this would be to get right with Dantley? Do you know how important this is? He seems like the most laid back guy ever. Very professional, intelligent guy who loves this hobby. This guy is great for our hobby! And they are ignoring him. They have no clue.
After making right with Dantley I think they need to take some of the free professional help they are receiving. You have expert after expert review the video and and materials and give enormous amounts expert opinions. Stuff that would cost thousands to hire.
Free advise! I would be willing to bet money they could ask the forum guys anything and get better feedback than they could ever pay for.
They need to fix all the models that are out there asap so guys can get their stuff in the air and it be safe. Make it right, it’s the right thing to do!
After looking at the 20 plus page thread and seeing the xrays it doesn’t seem to appear anyone knows what they are doing down there. maybe just isolated issues as well.
Most models are probably fine. There might not even be that many models needing addendums. I have seen Ali fly the ÂĽ hawk bawls out. That jet seems tough!! The bigger jets and the twins should be looked at very carefully. anything with honeycomb formers.
I personally showed them how big the Big Hawk wheels should be and they fixed it immediately. I know they want to try.
So I guess what Im saying is Im offering to help, what can I do? How can we help you get back on track? How can we help you? We need you, let us help you.
If FEJ can get it together, make right with Dantley, improve their product line, and show some kind of customer service I will buy a jet from them. Ill put down a deposit asap! No more cover up no more hush money. own it and fix it!
If you don’t want any help and you don’t plan on reimbursing Dantley then I guess you can continue down the same road selling snake oil.
Scott Marr
04-16-2013, 10:02 PM
#515
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Its clearly obvious, we all (at least the level headed few) have Dantley's back.
All you need to do is hang out with him, fly with him and talk to him. He just a regular dude who isn't "in it" for anything.
Even Kenny Mac (another SPECTACULAR dude) chimes in on the merits of honeycomb structures here. There are some very great opinions here from all walks of life. There is definitely something amiss here and it seems undeniable that it points to concerns posted here in.
God, those FEJ jets are pretty, but I think my money will have to go back to "my" trusted few. I'm really not liking re-engineerring everything.
Dantley, if you give me your stabs, I'll X-ray and post up here.
All you need to do is hang out with him, fly with him and talk to him. He just a regular dude who isn't "in it" for anything.
Even Kenny Mac (another SPECTACULAR dude) chimes in on the merits of honeycomb structures here. There are some very great opinions here from all walks of life. There is definitely something amiss here and it seems undeniable that it points to concerns posted here in.
God, those FEJ jets are pretty, but I think my money will have to go back to "my" trusted few. I'm really not liking re-engineerring everything.
Dantley, if you give me your stabs, I'll X-ray and post up here.
04-16-2013, 10:51 PM
#517
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RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Rudi, was the rod moving within the stab?
yes that's what I wanted to say.. The rod began to move within the stab. I was able to turn it by hand 1.5 degrees up and down after 40 flights.
Rudi
04-16-2013, 11:47 PM
#518
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RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Airplanes400,
Really??? Showing picture of Likai and you you think SM is so dumb? You can not even remotely compare the 2 companies. Since you brought SM into this threat with false info - i have to correct you on the picture.
This was not load test. This was pivot point check. Done by real engineer. Same guy who design all SM LG. I think you have not even seen a SM LG in real life. He also designed the swing wing. Real load test are done statically and dynamically. Here is picture showing hawk wings static test 240kg - couple years back. After this it get to be flown at high G's to almost destruction. The F14 have done all these test and will be released when ready. It will be the best ever.
Roland In Germany have 1500 flights in his only f4 phanton. The f104 is now is second SM jet.
SM pilots fly all the time. No time for reengineering time after time...
So next time you qoute wrong info and discredit a real engineer - get your facts straight.
Rgds
Morne
Really??? Showing picture of Likai and you you think SM is so dumb? You can not even remotely compare the 2 companies. Since you brought SM into this threat with false info - i have to correct you on the picture.
This was not load test. This was pivot point check. Done by real engineer. Same guy who design all SM LG. I think you have not even seen a SM LG in real life. He also designed the swing wing. Real load test are done statically and dynamically. Here is picture showing hawk wings static test 240kg - couple years back. After this it get to be flown at high G's to almost destruction. The F14 have done all these test and will be released when ready. It will be the best ever.
Roland In Germany have 1500 flights in his only f4 phanton. The f104 is now is second SM jet.
SM pilots fly all the time. No time for reengineering time after time...
So next time you qoute wrong info and discredit a real engineer - get your facts straight.
Rgds
Morne
04-17-2013, 01:40 AM
#519
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Not sure what you think those pictures prove since that "sandbag test" does not appear to test anything other than the wing joiner as it sits across two pieces of wood. Secondly, I doubt the joiner is supported the same way as it would be when attached to the jet. So that "test" is not applicable, nor would it apply the same stress to the same areas as it might when installed.
If that sandbag demo is all takes for you, then well ....
Load test, pivot point test. Whatever! Put a meter on it and find out how much pressure is being exerted on it before it fails. Then compare the results to the pressure a flight load would put on the same area. Don't just bend it with your hand. That is not a valid test, nor something a good engineer does. There are good engineers (those that aced their tests), and there are bad engineers (those that just barely passed). Just like doctors.
What do you call the guy who got the lowest passing grade in med school? .................................................. .............. Doctor.
Now, do you really want that guy operating on you?
It's just wrong when these R/C jet companies build and demo fly a jet, then market & sell their jets with a pretty paint job after just a few flights. Just because they made a few 'soft' flights with their jets, does not prove the jet is airworthy or ready for market. That's why so many of these Chinese jets have a short life-span, and come apart in flight ... Inferior design matched with inferior materials. They are not built to last, unless they become hangar queens.
I have yet to see a Chinese jet flight-demonstrated and flown like a BVM jet. It also appears that dubd flew his jet rather conservatively, yet it still failed. That's just poor engineering.
If that sandbag demo is all takes for you, then well ....
Load test, pivot point test. Whatever! Put a meter on it and find out how much pressure is being exerted on it before it fails. Then compare the results to the pressure a flight load would put on the same area. Don't just bend it with your hand. That is not a valid test, nor something a good engineer does. There are good engineers (those that aced their tests), and there are bad engineers (those that just barely passed). Just like doctors.
What do you call the guy who got the lowest passing grade in med school? .................................................. .............. Doctor.
Now, do you really want that guy operating on you?
It's just wrong when these R/C jet companies build and demo fly a jet, then market & sell their jets with a pretty paint job after just a few flights. Just because they made a few 'soft' flights with their jets, does not prove the jet is airworthy or ready for market. That's why so many of these Chinese jets have a short life-span, and come apart in flight ... Inferior design matched with inferior materials. They are not built to last, unless they become hangar queens.
I have yet to see a Chinese jet flight-demonstrated and flown like a BVM jet. It also appears that dubd flew his jet rather conservatively, yet it still failed. That's just poor engineering.
04-17-2013, 02:54 AM
#520
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RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: jetpilot
Its hard reading all this and not getting upset. The lack of any response from FEJ is really disappointing. Its hard hearing guys defend the product and guys saying it could of been radio.
Can you imagine where Dantley would be without the video? He has video proof and its still the same verdict as if he had none. That’s like watching B1 Bobs 2400 videos and telling him he didn’t build a B1 bomber or 105!
So many guys have received deals from FEJ that they feel indebted to them at all cost. Some guys have gone all in with FEJ and have bet everything on them. Not only did Dantley loose a $20K jet but think about the loss to all these guys who are holding the FEJ bag. FEJ is not only ignoring Dantley but they are ignoring every single one of their customers. What are the customers going to do? sell my jet, fix my jet, how do I fix my jet, is there something wrong with it, maybe Im ok, its fine, just fly it, im not changing anything, nothing wrong with it, it wont crash.
Dantley was told a lot of things that weren’t true so who do you believe?
How do we help FEJ fix this problem? Do they even care? I think its overwhelmingly obvious FEJ was at fault here. The experts have spoken and FEJ has no rebuttal. Maybe there is a need for some sort of mediator. Someone who can step in a for resolution. Maybe we as a community could step in and fund an expert to review their procedures and make recommendations. Fund a mediator.
Its hard not to get mad and say fix the damn thing or we are not going to buy it, but there’s just too many ''dealers'' or shills in this hobby who will sell out if its pretty and cheap enough. They will know its destined to crash and still buy it if its pretty and cheap enough. know its crap and still sell it. Its like being a crackhead, you know its bad but just cant say no! Its getting better so don’t worry about it right?
Unfortunately so many new guys are drawn to these types of deals. I did the same thing when I got into ducted fan jets around 18 years ago. I thought I could make anything fly and bought a really pretty F16 that crashed on the first flight. piece of crap that looked awesome. Learned the hard way.
I also said at one time I would never buy a BVM jet and then ended up having 2 of every model at some point in time. I learned theres a difference.
You read all these post from new guys buying the latest FEJ and how they are going to cram the biggest motors possible into it and fly the crap out of it like a sunday flyer. all that enthusiasm destroyed when the gear dont work or the wings fold, flutter, etc. and its really funny how they go right back out and buy the same dang jet and do it again. Like there’s going to be a different outcome. The survival rate of FEJ has to be the worst hands down! ''I can buy 3 of these jets for the cost of one of XXM models'' yea, cause your going to end up doing that! They get all mad at you cause you try to help them and they think your being a ''elitist know it all ass''. No man, I been there, right where you are! made all the mistakes already.
I don’t want FEJ to go away. They are good for the hobby. How can we help them get out of this predicament and help them move forward? Maybe they don’t care? Seems that way. I think we all care. Look at the 20 pages of people who care.
This is our hobby. can we do anything to help?
I think they need to make right with Dantley first. I personally think Dantley is a great guy. Do you know how easy this would be to get right with Dantley? Do you know how important this is? He seems like the most laid back guy ever. Very professional, intelligent guy who loves this hobby. This guy is great for our hobby! And they are ignoring him. They have no clue.
After making right with Dantley I think they need to take some of the free professional help they are receiving. You have expert after expert review the video and and materials and give enormous amounts expert opinions. Stuff that would cost thousands to hire.
Free advise! I would be willing to bet money they could ask the forum guys anything and get better feedback than they could ever pay for.
They need to fix all the models that are out there asap so guys can get their stuff in the air and it be safe. Make it right, it’s the right thing to do!
After looking at the 20 plus page thread and seeing the xrays it doesn’t seem to appear anyone knows what they are doing down there. maybe just isolated issues as well.
Most models are probably fine. There might not even be that many models needing addendums. I have seen Ali fly the ÂĽ hawk bawls out. That jet seems tough!! The bigger jets and the twins should be looked at very carefully. anything with honeycomb formers.
I personally showed them how big the Big Hawk wheels should be and they fixed it immediately. I know they want to try.
So I guess what Im saying is Im offering to help, what can I do? How can we help you get back on track? How can we help you? We need you, let us help you.
If FEJ can get it together, make right with Dantley, improve their product line, and show some kind of customer service I will buy a jet from them. Ill put down a deposit asap! No more cover up no more hush money. own it and fix it!
If you don’t want any help and you don’t plan on reimbursing Dantley then I guess you can continue down the same road selling snake oil.
Scott Marr
Its hard reading all this and not getting upset. The lack of any response from FEJ is really disappointing. Its hard hearing guys defend the product and guys saying it could of been radio.
Can you imagine where Dantley would be without the video? He has video proof and its still the same verdict as if he had none. That’s like watching B1 Bobs 2400 videos and telling him he didn’t build a B1 bomber or 105!
So many guys have received deals from FEJ that they feel indebted to them at all cost. Some guys have gone all in with FEJ and have bet everything on them. Not only did Dantley loose a $20K jet but think about the loss to all these guys who are holding the FEJ bag. FEJ is not only ignoring Dantley but they are ignoring every single one of their customers. What are the customers going to do? sell my jet, fix my jet, how do I fix my jet, is there something wrong with it, maybe Im ok, its fine, just fly it, im not changing anything, nothing wrong with it, it wont crash.
Dantley was told a lot of things that weren’t true so who do you believe?
How do we help FEJ fix this problem? Do they even care? I think its overwhelmingly obvious FEJ was at fault here. The experts have spoken and FEJ has no rebuttal. Maybe there is a need for some sort of mediator. Someone who can step in a for resolution. Maybe we as a community could step in and fund an expert to review their procedures and make recommendations. Fund a mediator.
Its hard not to get mad and say fix the damn thing or we are not going to buy it, but there’s just too many ''dealers'' or shills in this hobby who will sell out if its pretty and cheap enough. They will know its destined to crash and still buy it if its pretty and cheap enough. know its crap and still sell it. Its like being a crackhead, you know its bad but just cant say no! Its getting better so don’t worry about it right?
Unfortunately so many new guys are drawn to these types of deals. I did the same thing when I got into ducted fan jets around 18 years ago. I thought I could make anything fly and bought a really pretty F16 that crashed on the first flight. piece of crap that looked awesome. Learned the hard way.
I also said at one time I would never buy a BVM jet and then ended up having 2 of every model at some point in time. I learned theres a difference.
You read all these post from new guys buying the latest FEJ and how they are going to cram the biggest motors possible into it and fly the crap out of it like a sunday flyer. all that enthusiasm destroyed when the gear dont work or the wings fold, flutter, etc. and its really funny how they go right back out and buy the same dang jet and do it again. Like there’s going to be a different outcome. The survival rate of FEJ has to be the worst hands down! ''I can buy 3 of these jets for the cost of one of XXM models'' yea, cause your going to end up doing that! They get all mad at you cause you try to help them and they think your being a ''elitist know it all ass''. No man, I been there, right where you are! made all the mistakes already.
I don’t want FEJ to go away. They are good for the hobby. How can we help them get out of this predicament and help them move forward? Maybe they don’t care? Seems that way. I think we all care. Look at the 20 pages of people who care.
This is our hobby. can we do anything to help?
I think they need to make right with Dantley first. I personally think Dantley is a great guy. Do you know how easy this would be to get right with Dantley? Do you know how important this is? He seems like the most laid back guy ever. Very professional, intelligent guy who loves this hobby. This guy is great for our hobby! And they are ignoring him. They have no clue.
After making right with Dantley I think they need to take some of the free professional help they are receiving. You have expert after expert review the video and and materials and give enormous amounts expert opinions. Stuff that would cost thousands to hire.
Free advise! I would be willing to bet money they could ask the forum guys anything and get better feedback than they could ever pay for.
They need to fix all the models that are out there asap so guys can get their stuff in the air and it be safe. Make it right, it’s the right thing to do!
After looking at the 20 plus page thread and seeing the xrays it doesn’t seem to appear anyone knows what they are doing down there. maybe just isolated issues as well.
Most models are probably fine. There might not even be that many models needing addendums. I have seen Ali fly the ÂĽ hawk bawls out. That jet seems tough!! The bigger jets and the twins should be looked at very carefully. anything with honeycomb formers.
I personally showed them how big the Big Hawk wheels should be and they fixed it immediately. I know they want to try.
So I guess what Im saying is Im offering to help, what can I do? How can we help you get back on track? How can we help you? We need you, let us help you.
If FEJ can get it together, make right with Dantley, improve their product line, and show some kind of customer service I will buy a jet from them. Ill put down a deposit asap! No more cover up no more hush money. own it and fix it!
If you don’t want any help and you don’t plan on reimbursing Dantley then I guess you can continue down the same road selling snake oil.
Scott Marr
Very well said Scott!!!!!!
04-17-2013, 03:30 AM
#521
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RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Correct Load Testing a wing is much more than just adding sand bags, the cordwise and spanwise distribution of the load is very important and is different for the positive and negative loads.
For example the negative load (wing tested correct way up) all the applied load should concentrated from the LE to 25% of the cord and the positive load (testing upside down) between 20-60% of the cord (normally all tests done at both positions) This is to simulate the wing torque & pitching moment.
In addition to that the positive load is not applied with the wing level, but with a nose down angle equal to the wing stall AOA to simulate the anti-drag loads.
Most of the load is concentrated near the root but should taper out to the tip.
The wing should also be tested fitted to the fuselage as the transit loads may cause the fuselage to fail (buckle) before the wing itself fails. No point having a strong wing if its attachment to the fuselage cant take the loads applied to it.
High tech computer Structural analysis software is widely used now in fullsize aircraft design but it is hard to beat real life satic load testing, and why in the homebuilt aircraft world we tend to test everything by hand.
Pic below of a -3g negative load applied to a wing, total load applied 646Kg (1420lbs) the jack is just to support while load is being applied and to prevent it collapsing on our toes!
For example the negative load (wing tested correct way up) all the applied load should concentrated from the LE to 25% of the cord and the positive load (testing upside down) between 20-60% of the cord (normally all tests done at both positions) This is to simulate the wing torque & pitching moment.
In addition to that the positive load is not applied with the wing level, but with a nose down angle equal to the wing stall AOA to simulate the anti-drag loads.
Most of the load is concentrated near the root but should taper out to the tip.
The wing should also be tested fitted to the fuselage as the transit loads may cause the fuselage to fail (buckle) before the wing itself fails. No point having a strong wing if its attachment to the fuselage cant take the loads applied to it.
High tech computer Structural analysis software is widely used now in fullsize aircraft design but it is hard to beat real life satic load testing, and why in the homebuilt aircraft world we tend to test everything by hand.
Pic below of a -3g negative load applied to a wing, total load applied 646Kg (1420lbs) the jack is just to support while load is being applied and to prevent it collapsing on our toes!
04-17-2013, 03:44 AM
#522
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RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
looking again at the pics posted the load really is only been applied on the wing joining tube, and why do the outer sections of the wing look to be level?
04-17-2013, 04:42 AM
#523
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
I think that we have to take things in perspective and remember that, at the end of the day, these are still toys. There are many people who post on these forums who are highly qualified and talented aerospace professionals, with expert knowledge on design, materials, stress analysis, accident investigation etc etc. However, I don't think it follows that the people working for these model companies making these 'toys' are similarly qualified. If the boss of FEJ was a top aerospace engineer then he wouldn't be building models, he would be working in industry making much more money.
Look at the price of a bolt in your local DIY store and compare that to the cost of an approved bolt used on a full size aircraft. The difference is massive and if we want that level of regulation on our toys then you can expect a huge price hike, maybe ten times or more of the current prices.
Does that mean that we should accept models that might fall apart? Of course not. The TLAR (that looks about right) principle may be all that is required, provided that the model is comprehensively tested at and beyond its limits for a substantial amount of time and number of flights, before the model is released. If this is not good enough, where do we go next? Do we expect a full CFD analysis, wind tunnel testing, certification, approval etc etc. That all adds up to $$ and is way over the top and unrealistic to expect these companies to work to this sort of standard. If this was to happen then I believe that you will end up with 1 or 2 companies selling a couple of very simple models at extortionate prices.
What we do need though, is confidence that the models won't fall apart. As I mentioned above, I believe that this is achieved by manufacturers adopting a thorough flight testing programme and also by them listening to the customer when they uncover problems and working on fixing these issues as they arise. These 2 simple things may result in a huge improvement in the quality of the models and their safety, but these same 2 principles are the very ones that some of these companies seem completely uninterested in adopting.
Look at the price of a bolt in your local DIY store and compare that to the cost of an approved bolt used on a full size aircraft. The difference is massive and if we want that level of regulation on our toys then you can expect a huge price hike, maybe ten times or more of the current prices.
Does that mean that we should accept models that might fall apart? Of course not. The TLAR (that looks about right) principle may be all that is required, provided that the model is comprehensively tested at and beyond its limits for a substantial amount of time and number of flights, before the model is released. If this is not good enough, where do we go next? Do we expect a full CFD analysis, wind tunnel testing, certification, approval etc etc. That all adds up to $$ and is way over the top and unrealistic to expect these companies to work to this sort of standard. If this was to happen then I believe that you will end up with 1 or 2 companies selling a couple of very simple models at extortionate prices.
What we do need though, is confidence that the models won't fall apart. As I mentioned above, I believe that this is achieved by manufacturers adopting a thorough flight testing programme and also by them listening to the customer when they uncover problems and working on fixing these issues as they arise. These 2 simple things may result in a huge improvement in the quality of the models and their safety, but these same 2 principles are the very ones that some of these companies seem completely uninterested in adopting.
04-17-2013, 05:14 AM
#524
Thread Starter
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
It's now day 10 and still no word from FEJ. I sent them an email asking for them to remove my photo and video from their web site. The video now now has a link to the crash video and this thread so it is in their best interest to remove it.
Scott, Raf, thanks for your support.
Airplanes400, all my other planes are from BVM, Skymaster, and CARF. I fly them all A LOT and none of have ever come apart. You can watch my videos on Youtube and decide for yourself if I am pampering my Skymaster jets. After this crash and being disrespected by FEJ I really did consider quitting this hobby. It's because of the all the amazing people I have met through this hobby that I haven't quit. I have been involved in this hobby in level or another since I was 8 years old. This is the first time I've really felt disgusted about it.
I also want to point out that I am very fortunate to have such overwhelming support. It is not lost on me that if Tam did not have his camera pointed at my F-14 that day this thread would only be 2 pages long. Thanks, Tam! I feel for you guys who lost planes do to manufacturer incompetence, but no video. And even with video it is an uphill battle.
Another thing that is ironic here is that manufacturers and retailers who had nothing to do with the crash have offered their support. Individual modelers have even offered to build my next jet. Yet, FEJ haven't done squat.
Scott, Raf, thanks for your support.
Airplanes400, all my other planes are from BVM, Skymaster, and CARF. I fly them all A LOT and none of have ever come apart. You can watch my videos on Youtube and decide for yourself if I am pampering my Skymaster jets. After this crash and being disrespected by FEJ I really did consider quitting this hobby. It's because of the all the amazing people I have met through this hobby that I haven't quit. I have been involved in this hobby in level or another since I was 8 years old. This is the first time I've really felt disgusted about it.
I also want to point out that I am very fortunate to have such overwhelming support. It is not lost on me that if Tam did not have his camera pointed at my F-14 that day this thread would only be 2 pages long. Thanks, Tam! I feel for you guys who lost planes do to manufacturer incompetence, but no video. And even with video it is an uphill battle.
Another thing that is ironic here is that manufacturers and retailers who had nothing to do with the crash have offered their support. Individual modelers have even offered to build my next jet. Yet, FEJ haven't done squat.
