gooseF22

Most of my career as a fighter pilot was spent in avionics development, so this stuff comes a little easier for me. I just tinker with the radio, and I'm an empty nester. I am also very happy working with Jeti because they will communicate directly with me when a question comes up, and they listen.. Jeti jumped to 3.0 for several reasons, but they listened to their field reps during testing, and decided to press forward...impressive, in my opinion..

We needed 3.0 out in the field because of its capability enhancements and a few cool things under the hood as well.. I think guys will like it.. for me it also gets me fully released software at the beginning of flying season.

NOTE: when you turn on the CBOX200, you might see a banner requesting version1.2 for the Cbox on the transmitter.. we don't have 1.2 just yet..

gooseF22

they found that most analog servos can handle .17 updates during testing.... yes 20ms.. however over time, default for standard servos is 22ms master frame update that was developed by futuba years ago, 18ms updates and a 4ms null to keep consumption down..once Hold techniques were programmed into the servos.. JR also used it for years until digital servos came on..

The output speed of the receiver with all the servos connected, such as the Cbox, or R11/14/18...etc (main rx), is the servo drive speed, but on the sat receivers, you are setting the output speed that the Master receiver accepts coming in..

The master receiver can handle a full length PPM stream, and doesn't need a fixed speed..but yes, PPM is PPM, so 16 channels does take up to 44ms for all channels, so thats why its important to match up the channels... and remember its a backup signal, but you don't want to use a fixed speed because the receiver can easily recognize the Null IFG.. Someday I hope that the eX output can be used for sat receivers.. I know they are looking at it to make it digital instead of analog..

So.. for now, All satellite receivers connected to a Cbox or main receiver should be in Auto speed with Failsafe off, and set to match the servo output.. For the receiver driving servos, the output speed is what you set to be compatible with your servos..

For me, my older jets that have a couple analog servos like flaps .17 is working just fine, but if I get faster than .15 or so, they jitter and skip.. If you want to see it in action, plug an HS65 in and set it to .10 and see it stutter..set it to .30 and see it stutter..

When you check your servos, move the stick slowly and smoothly to see if they all track linearly.. if they stutter, change the speed..... then tap the control to see if it responds.. If it doesn't change the speed..

hope that makes sense

Im looking at the mixed mode outputs for sat rx, for servos this morning.. more to follow.. 3.22 was a surprise release for me.. I have been testing 3.0 tx with 3.2rx.

I have an email into the developer to see what the default response time for the plugged in servos when the sat rx is in computed PPM mode.

Puttputt maru

I had looked at the iGyro before and the Cortex seemed much easier in the early phase of flight to setup. That plus the fact that a few of the guys at my field that had the iGyro cursed a few time and decided to switch to the Cortex afterwards and are happy with the switch (they do not fly with Jeti yet).

In so far as PowerBox is concern look at the chart below it was done by a French distributor for Jeti. The only modification is the double HF line (fourth) where in the last 4 columns it translate to "double IN parallel" not "or" just a minor difference.

One more thing between PowerBox and CentralBox : with the PowerBox, except for one of their latest system, if you have a connection to a servo going bad you loose the one receiver totally that is connected to it, pretty bad if half your plane is on it. With Jeti if you loose one connection to a servo all the other will work. Also PowerBox with 2 receivers just use the other receiver as a backup if the other one fails not with Jeti CB, both work in conjunction.

Blancr

Thanks for the response - very helpful

Bob

tucson

My Feedback: (1)

I am flying with the cb 200. The cb 200 will isolate a bad servo.

I just received my Cortex which I am about to use with my cb 200.

If one of the servos starts to draw excessive current and goes bad I imagine the cb 200 is no longer effective for that feature.

My concern is the bus in the cortex. Will it be able to withstand the high current draw? Loose the bus and you will loose the airplane.

Am I correct in my thinking?

If this is so I might as welll use my 14 ch rec.

Thanks,

Stan

Puttputt maru

I just reread my notes on PowerBox vs Jeti and a slight modification.: if you loose one servo you actually don't loose the receiver but it will not switch to the other receiver to take over the function, in order for the other receiver to take over you have to loose the whole receiver. So after you crashed due to one faulty connection you will never know because all will seem well. Jeti will do that switching.

The only Powerbox system that works close to the CB200 and has the redundancy mentioned above is the SRS when you use it in X-bus and with double receiver, but you are limited in the number of channels you can mix if you have a big model

and lets not forget that Jeti will give you lots of telemetry information that PowerBox won't

gooseF22

Stan,
good question.. we touched on this a few pages back..

The cortex is a common bus just like an old school receiver, so yes you lose the servo isolation feature of the servos plugged into the cortex.. a tradeoff worth the risk to me..
Because you get isolation on all the other stuff that could bind, like a gear servo, brakes, etc..

You can add a 3rd power wire to the bind port if you like, just pull the signal wire from the male to male extension..

You can also add power downstream with a Y cord... for instance, I have a twin tail jet, so I added power to that servo line, but it "back Powers" the cortex as well.. Just the same as adding an extra battery lead to a standard receiver..

I know guys flying big jets and big aerobatic planes with the two wires or three wires above.. but if you are really worried, add a Y cord on one of the servos, and add power that way downstream of the servos.. I have been told that the only way the Cbox trips a channel basically is a dead short or burn thru to a dead short.. no different than in the past..

Also.. remember with the CBOX, you get a receiver sharing scheme, instead of a PPM backup satellite.. also a better setup


All that said, Im running a 14 in my king cat, and a Cbox in my élan.. but my preferred setup is the CBOX200 with 2 R3's. Put one way up in the nose, and the other someplace rearward or in a wing root so it can be seen from behind.. Thats what we are running in Jim's Rafale, and the reception has been solid.. even with all the guys radios on during top gun..

tucson

My Feedback: (1)

Goose,

Being I already have the 14 and a R3, I will use these receivers in my new Avanti S with the cortex.

A Y cord sounds interesting. I will look into that.

Thanks,

Stan

wildnloose

Just a heads up.

Re: firmware update.

I was trying to go from 1.06 to 3.0. Followed the instructions from Jeti site (copy files to root, add sound files, etc.). Rebooted, it unpacked. Then "Update Failed". Crap....
Tried rebooting, pulling battery......nothing.

No problem, pulled sd card. Placed into my adapter and put in my laptop. First I re-copied 3.0 to card, failed again. Copied 2.22 to it, it came up. Connected transmitter back to laptop and updated to 3.0. Success!!!

I forgot to add that this was done around 4:00 am. No telling what condition my brain was in. Next time I will do it at a reasonable time.

Richi-d

Who told you that? When I read your writings, I think you are not an electronic specialist, as your statements are all wrong!

1. If you are using a regular PowerBox (non SRS) you have the receiver connected to the PowerBox with an patchlead for each channel. If you have an additional satelite you have a double receiver system. If a servo burns all other servos connected to the PowerBox will go on working.

2. If you use a SRS-PowerBox you just need 2 satellites. Depending on the signal is good or not the PowerBox is switching between the satellites. This gives you a redundant system. If a servo burns, all other s go on working (what else)
The selection of the satelites: its a digital choice - same manner like JetiBoxes sort out the satellite. If the Signal is o.k. the satellite gives out PPM, UDI or EX-BUS. If the signal is bad, the satellite turns off the signal.

In a PowerBox you can readout informations about Fails, receivers switches and lost frames.

And yes:

But with the next update you will get all informations about receivers and batteries to your transmitter screen.



Richard
PowerBox-Systems

gooseF22

Welcome Richard,
..this forum is about getting Transmitter/receiver/system information correct....thx for correction..

its Good to know the Powerbox system will accept EX-bus with 2 receivers.. So you are adding Bi-directional EX-Bus support i the future.. good stuff..thanks

I always have been impressed with the PBS engineering..

gooseF22

I had the same issue going from 1.06 to 3.0 on a transmitter.. however I did a hard boot and it worked.. I did report it directly, and several guys on another forum reported it.. the fix was to upgrade to 2.22 like you did for now..then to 3.0

Puttputt maru

I am not an electrical engineer but I can gather information. My information come from the French importer for Jeti see this video if you can understand french

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16...powerbox_sport

If it is wrong I apologize.

But the fact remains that with non SRS PowerBox, the second satellite is just there to wait for the first to die, both do not work together in true dual fonction.

I have used PowerBox and still do (till I switch). It is a good product but I tend to want to make it all Jeti just for the fact that when updates happen there is always a period where the other manufacturer will have to catch up with the compatibility. Just look at the Jlog and version v3.0 which are not totally compatible right now.

leopaul

I have the 2 set-up... price wise, both are similar...

If you have the room and don't have HV servos (so regulator is required), i would recommend to go with the PB Royal. I have this set-up in my 52% Ultimate and the quality of Powerbox is incredible!!
You have battery regulator redundancy, output voltage selection, full after flight report(frame lost, receivers switch, mah consumption per battery)

But, if you want a more compact set-up, go with the CB200.

This is what i have in my Boomerang Jet.
But when you compare cost, the CB200+ dual regulator + cortex Gyro, you are at the same price of the Powerbox with all the stuff in a single unit.
You save the dual reg if you have HV servos...
The only drawback of my powerbox currently is the missing telemetry, wich i guess, will be release with latest software soon....
When it come to complexity, both have their good/bad..

I love the transmitter acces to everything with my jeti stuff....I'm addicted to it...

In my jet i have:
- CB200
- 2 R3
- Xicoy telemetry adapter
- Speed sensor
- Vario sensor
- Fuel flow meter
This give me a couple page of telemetry to navigate :-)

But..i love my PB Royal screen and the layout of it!!

Blancr

Thanks Leopal. My specific question though was to do with ease of set up. The PB system has 'assistants' to help with different aspects of set up and I'm wondering if this makes it easier. I think Jeti is fantastic but the one down side is the poor documentation - by this I mean poor relative to the capability of Jeti. Jeti can do so much. The issue for me is that the manual tells us how to do the 'easy' stuff but when it comes to the more sophisticated areas it seems to just tell us what can be done rather than how to do it.

Bob

Puttputt maru

Not to belaboured the point but I have looked at the video I mentioned above and it is a PowerBox Royal that is being reviewed. I want to make clear what is being said and if it is wrong then please negate it.

It says around the 5 minute mark, that if for example you loose a servo connection of the elevator from the receiver to the Royal due to a short in the wire or a bad connection. All the servos being connected to the Royal for the elevator will stop working. The second receiver will not take over the elevator function.

The Jeti CB200 system will.

Again like I said before the new SRS system will do it same, as the Jeti, it is a since working system. But you are limited in the number of mix you can do, with Jeti CB200 you have 15 any way you want.

All manufacturers will catch up to Jeti functionality eventually but Jeti is so fast to respond to our need that for now I think it will always be a step ahead

leopaul

That is totally false.....

You must compare apple vs apple, the Jeti receiver used in conjunction of the CB200 is a digital communicationm system, you need to compare that to the SRS version of any of the Powerbox model, wich are also digital function....

Using a non-digital system, even with Jeti, you will loose elevator function, look at the end of the video, when using standard out mode, jeti use a special electronic adapter that you need to buy for each channel to compare in between both receivers.....Without this adapter, the system work the same as a standard Powerbox.

So, in resume, both system act exactly the same when you compare the same model range.....

SRS vs CB200 = full protection, digital system
Standard vs standard = no protection, until you buy the special Jeti adapter

Puttputt maru

The original question was powerBox compared to Jeti CB200

SRS vs CB200 = full protection, digital system, I did say that too.

The video compares first CB200 vs royal and I think the problem is valid there, as with any non SRS system from PowerBox. Obviously PowerBox saw the short coming of the other non SRS system and adjusted to it.

The system shown at the end of the video is the enlink which is not compared but is an alternative when you do not want to use the CB200 which also adds even the safety of having a 'y' connection to the servo in case one of the servo connector fails.

and I still stand by the fact that you are limited in the number of mix you can do with the PowerBox, with Jeti CB200 you have 15 any way you want.

(I am not a rep for any companies, just a user making his choice)

leopaul

Richi-d

Thanks LeoPaul:
absolute correct!

Regarding normal PowerBoxes with normal inputs: The question is against what failure you want to be save. For sure: If you short out one input channel to the PowerBox, this function is dead. But how often does it happen? Never- in my 15 years experience not one case of a bad patchlead.

Regarding your mixers... In the SRS PowerBoxes you can also use as much outputs as you want controlled by the same function, and you can adjust middle and endpoints of all (Royal 26) outputs. Show me a plane which needs more!

PUTTPUT, you should sort out your informations yourself and not from a french video which seems not to be technical correct report!

Blancr

Thanks for the discussion guys but my question is not about relative capability but ease of set up. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Bob

siclick33

Blancr, that's a really difficult question to answer.

My Jeti arrives very soon so I don't have direct experience with it but a large number of my club members are using it. It is much more complicated to set up than a basic 6 channel transmitter but that is because it is incredibly capable and flexible. It was previously said that the old Futaba TX that I currently use was difficult to programme but it can do things that, until very recently, a lot of the more expensive ones couldn't. Different people want different things in the hobby; some want the simplest thing that will do the job, others want the most advanced.

If you're talking about the CBOX/Cortex vs the PowerBox/iGyro then, again, there are decisions to be made that only you can answer. Both have pros and cons. I would say that the Cortex is easier to set up than the iGyro - at its simplest you can just install it, set it up with a simple TX sequence and fly it whilst adjusting the gain. The iGyro is more complicated to set up but, arguably, allows for more options/tweaking. For instance, with the Cortex you need the PC software to adjust individual axis gains but you don't with the iGyro. None of these considerations has touched on performance and not all gyros are the same

I think Jeti has missed a trick by not regulating the voltage in the CBox so that would have to be considered unless you're happy to use non-regulated A123 or HV servos. The CBox is designed by Jeti, to work with Jeti, so you shouldn't get compatibility problems if Jeti update the firmware (which has happened in the past when using Jeti with Powerboxes). There are many more factors involved in deciding what to go with than just how easy they are to set up. Jeti, Powerbox and Bavarian Demon are all responsive to tech queries and there is a lot of expertise out there on using all of them, so you should always be able to find the answers to any questions should they arise.

So overall I would say that no one can really answer your question as it is an individual opinion as to what level of complexity you are prepared to accept to get the results you desire. It is often (but not always the case) that the benefit of increased flexibility comes with the burden of increased complexity. Jeti probably can't write a manual to cover all options as it would be huge!!

gooseF22

I would like to stay away from brand wars in this informational thread.. so lets get the correct info out and let folks make their own decision.. kinda like which turbine you like...

Like Slick33 says, what you use is a matter of personal choice.. a lot of jet pilots fly PBS.. and the list of jet pilots flying Jeti is growing quickly..

All system have pro's and cons... Each company is coming up with new and improved products.. that is what is important.. The PBS Royal with the next SW and the CBox200/400 both are good systems... both excellent...

For now, lets focus on just learning how to function the radio with all systems..on making sure our systems talk and function with the systems properly..

gooseF22

I told you all I would get back with some info on the 3.22 servo/sat capability..

Question:
when a Satellite receiver is set to output a PPM stream, and speed is in Auto, If a servo is connected to the alternative pin out, How often does it update the PWM to the servo.. IE.. how fast?

Answer:
All servos connected to a receiver that is set to PPM out get their signal in one group... Those pulses to the servos are generated in between PPM frames during the IFG (inter frame gap).. so if you are outputting an 8 chan PPM stream as a backup signal, then the latency is 20ms.. If you have less channels, its faster. If you have more, its slower..

So thats why you can select auto, and it really doesn't matter too much to the connected servos, except that you should not connect anything that relies on speed to function.. again, I put secondary functions on the sat receiver like gyro gain, lights, canopy, mixture, gear, smoke..etc..

gooseF22

One more additional thing using a Sat receiver..

If you plug a sensor into the main receiver, update the transmitter, then plug it into a sat receiver... AND, you are running Dual path, the sensor will update the transmitter screen and mix the data..

By doing it this way, it will show up on the selector list for displayed telemetry..

on my Habu, I have the current sensor plugged into the EX port of the main receiver, and the voltage sensor plugged into the sat receiver in dual path.. saves an expander