Is the smoke damage really that serious? Wow, didn't know that. Well, a few years back I did a lot of rebuilding of my classic American Muscle car's engine in my kitchen. That wasn't so bad though I found out the carb cleaner sets smoke detectors off.

A married guy's kitchen smells like food, mine smelled like a car engine.

Actually, in my case the worst part of the smoke was the plastic on the charger that burned up. But the smoke residue left behind by the batteries is pretty toxic.

Aside from fires that occur while charging, we must remember that LiPos can spontaneously combust if they are damaged by dropping, in a crash, etc. I keep my shop pretty clean, but there are still many ways I can see a battery being dropped, smashed, crushed, etc.

I am liking the backyard underground bunker idea more and more, as I read this thread.

Sort of like how they make kimchi

I'm leaning towards that explosive ordnance disposal truck myself as seen on page 2, post #42 of this thread.

Oh Crap mate, I feel so sorry to see your RV in this state.
Wish you all the best to renovate it.

David:

Sorry to hear of your loss but glad you are safe. Lipo care is a tough thing. They are so useful but do require extra care. I too know of fires damaging cars, golf carts and homes. I use the product from batterybunker.com. It is a ceramic jar that will contain a lipo fire and it is vented. I also have a friend that who uses the batterybunker and it saved his house one day when a cell went off during charging. The thing you have to be careful of is that they are very rough inside and if you travel with the batteries in the jar, they will wear on the corners. Too much wear on the corners and you will expose the cell and have a fire.

Paul

Hey Dave,

I don't know you this info is very valuable to all who will see it. You have done a great service to those of us who have been lucky and not burned out home, car, camper or garage down. We had a club member that did significant damage to his garage while charging a lipo. He did leave it unattended as I have done on numerous occasions. As of this writing I will never leave a lipo unattended again. I have a question for all the readers of this thread. Are the lipo sacks safe and will they protect from a fire should one of the packs short internally or fail for some other reason? Any comments will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Docadams

True or False: are LiFe batteries more safe or just the same as Lipo's? The guys at my LHS seem to be pushing the idea that LiFe's are much more safe. And is it necessary to use Lipo's over LiFe's or is it just a personal preference type of deal?

It's all about the care and feeding of these batteries. They need to be treated and charged properly. A lot of good information has been posted here. Almost every instance of a fire that I have herd of has been during or after a charge cycle. There are tens of thousands of lipo, so sitting in cases and on the shelves in hobby shops across the world. I have never heard of a hobby shop burning down due to a lipo fire. This should tell us something. Never trust your charger unattended. (Most are made in China) Monitor current and voltage going In to the battery throughout the whole charge cycle. If they puff get rid of them, if the cells don't balance within a couple tenths of a volt to each other, get rid of them. Keep.them cool and dry and don't store them at full charge.
Vince T.

David very sorry to read this thread.
In the 16 plus year of flying electric, I have not had a fire occur..... knock on wood!
Since the start I have always used a high end charger, Schulze and now the FMA Chargers.
Not sure what type of charger you use typically but it could it be suspect in this situation?

I hope you get resolve quickly and easily.
Bob

LiFE or the genuine A123 batteries are significantly safer and tolerate abuse much more readily than any LiPO. I'm not sure exactly how the prismatic LiFE cells would react to being exposed but I suspect it wouldn't be anything like the LiPO. The A123 batteries are in cylinders and if things go really bad, you get a harmless venting of the cell out of a plugged hole in the top of the case designed expressly for such an event. Remeber that the original A123's were designed for use in DeWalt cordless power tools and those things really take a beating when used commercially.

As to whether it's necessary for one battery or the other, that's kind of a yes/no proposition. The nominal voltage on the LiFE/A123 is 3.3 volts per cell where the LiPO is 3.7 volts. So you have LiFE/A123's coming off the charger at 7.2 volts (two cell pack) and dropping pretty quickly into the 6.6 volt range where a two cell LiPO comes off the charger at 8.4 volts and technically by the time it hit's it's nominal voltage of 7.4, it's actually dead.

So it depends on what you are trying to run whether or not it will work with LiFE/A123's because of the lower voltage output. 2 cells may not be enough and 3 cells too many so you are stuck with a 2 cell LiPO.

I have always subscribed to the theory "quality over quantity". Number of unintentional lipo fires to date: 0

Internal resistance will vary, good packs will be much lower and more uniform from cell to cell
I have been keeping an eye on I.R. for several years on my packs. I use FMA (cellpro and power lab) balance chargers they will tell you the I.R, while charging.

The other variable you will come across is the mah of the pack. What may be considered low I.R for a 2300mah pack would be high for a 8000 mah pack.

My thunder power 6s 65c 5000 mah packs started there life in the 1.2 mohm to 1.4 mohm range after about two years and many flights later they are pushing 1.7 to 1.9
These have been very good packs. They stay in very good balance before and after a flight

I've had a hyperion 6s 35c 6500 that was not staying in balance, the I.R. of a few cells was all over the place... might look like this
( 2.3, 4.5, 6.4, 2.4, 3, 2, 4.6) I would question whats going on with this pack along with the fact it's not staying balance... you may also notice the charger starting to stay in balance mode much longer at the end of a charge. Could indicate this pack is going bad.. I got rid of it

The best I.R. I have seen came for a recent batch of 6s 25c 8000 mah Nano Tech packs..... these are cheap packs from hobby king.
I'm seeing cells in the (.08 to 1.1) range they stay in perfect balance, very cool and come out of balance charge fast..... tells me there good cells

Now a smaller 3s 2300 mah pack may be considered good at 3 to 4 mohm .... if you see a cell hitting 7 mohm but the rest are down at 5 mohm and it's not staying in balance I would start to question that pack. If it was old I would get rid of it at that point.

I also mark the date on my packs if there getting to be 4 years old I'm about done with them... time to move them out. I used to mark cycles on the side of my packs but other than seeing how many cycles I got it really didn't help. I'm more interested in the balance and I.R., I like to look at the balance before and after every flight with my tester.
Check my I.R. every charge, just take a mental note and watch for something out of the ordinary. I find it kind of fun in some sick way...lol

For the record I buy expensive, cheap, and middle of the road packs mostly based on testing others have done. I've found bad cells in expensive brands and seen some of my best cells in very cheap packs. It's really hard to gauge... I will say the big name expensive brand packs seem to have better matching and consistency.
I bough a batch of cheap 6s 40c 5000 mah packs one was crap right out of the box, but the others were perfect and turned out to be some of the best cells I've owned

I take my old packs to our local household waste recycle center, they take them for free no matter what shape they are in
Watch those out of balance packs, any puffing or swelling and balance charge everytime

Dave, I'm really sorry to hear/see this. I know your carefull about what you do and this was just couldn't be anticipated. Hope the insurance upgrades you!!
Take care and if there is anything I can do, please let me know.

Excellent information, thank you. I always check for any large differences between the cells in the packs but I've always wondered about the specifics. I'll be keeping a closer eye on them now. Thanks again.

I think what is needed is one of these aimed at an open window:

Thanks for posting the pics.

A salutary reminder to all of us.

I also had a Lipo fire about 18 months ago after charging (approximately two hours earlier). I had two new 4 cell 2850mAh packs that I'd used for one flight each in an EDF that morning. Both packs were discharged to approx 30% after flying. Charged them up in the evening on my Hyperion charger and both took about the same amount of charge (I track the mAh put back into the packs when I charge). I keep my Lipo's in an ammo box but I was lazy this time and had left both charged packs sitting on the lower shelf of my timber workbech, sitting on an old newspaper next to my flight box with nitro fuel in its container. I know, I know...

I couldn't sleep after going to bed when the packs had finished charging so I went back into the garage to potter about. Whilst working on a model on the bench above the batteries I heard a pop/fizz type sound and looked down to see one of the packs start bellowing thick smoke. It filled my double car garage in about 30 seconds whilst I grabbed the fire extinguisher off the wall. As i kicked the battery off the shelf it caught fire and went ballistic skidding across the concrete floor.

I still use the other pack that I bought at the same time as the pack that went up after being used once and its had many cycles. The pack that caught fire had no impact damage from my use and no sign of shipping damage from purchase, must have just been some sort of internal fault.

I'm just glad I went back into the garage that night as its at the other end of the house from our bedroom with the kids bedrooms in between. There are smoke alarms but...by the time we would have heard them the whole garage would have been ablaze by then.

I still use Lipo's and store them all together in a 'stored' state in that ammo box but I dont keep that box of batteries under my roof line anymore and I don't charge my batteries on or near anything combustible.

Hope this helps someone, Lipo fires are nasty things.

Dave, I am saddened by your experience and quite glad that it was not worse. I use an old cast iron dutch oven for charging. After reading the entire thread, I had second thoughts about all of the Lipos in my shop. Some are dead Indians and others are new. Putting them all outside would only expose them to temperature extremes, so I rounded them up and put them in the fireplace. Wife won't let me light a fire in it, so my batteries have a new home that is at room temperature year round. If they do cook off, the glass fire screen and flue will keep smoke in the chimney, where it belongs. Best use yet I have found for that fireplace.

I also keep mine in an old cast iron dutch oven, but that dutch oven sits on a bed of sand inside an junked out gas barbeque grill in an outside shed. Unfortunatly thery are subject to outside temperature variations.

Years ago an old Fireman told me that charcoal bricketts could start fire by spontantous combustion if they were exposed to too many cycles of drying out and re dampened while in storage. I wasn't sure if he was pulling my leg, but now I wonder if LiPo's could do the same. Chemistry is funny.

I thought i was the only one using my fireplace as a lipo storage (and charging) station...

SAD TO SEE THOSE PHOTO'S DAVE. I NEVER USE THOSE BATTERIES. ALWAYS HAD A FEAR OF THEM. LATLY I HAVE SEEN THESE BATT. GO ON FIRE JUST STANDING STIIL. THANKS FOR THE UP DATE . NOWN OFF TO MY SHOP & UNPLUG MY ELECTRIC WEED EATER, AND THE BATTERY IN THE TRASH CAN TILL I AM READY FOR IT. SAD THAT THIS A BAD LESSON TO LEAN.

I like that idea. I think all of my batteries are going there as well. This is also a reason I never use LiPos in jets , at least where i can not readily remove them. I just don't feel 100% comfortable with these batteries.


... and here I though that the only hobby related use for a fire place would be for FEJ planes! ...


Voy

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/25/opinio...rticle_sidebar

Good write up by an experienced aviation writer.

hi david, very sorry to hear of your trouble. this brings back bad memories for me . in july 2007 my entire house was burnt to the ground when i unintentionally left a lithium battery charging in my living room while i left to go to the shops. i got a phone call soon afterwards from a relative to get home as quick as possible and when i did i couldny believe my eyes. it was a nightmare. but it could have been a lot worse as my 86 year old aunt was in the living room and she tried to battle with the flames but the intense heat and smoke beat her back and she had the good sense to get to the front door where two workmen came and rescued her. since that day since ive never used a lithium pollymer battery and all i fly are glow planes. we were out of our house for 5 months until it was rebuilt. hope u get ur room sorted out and always stay safe when using these batteries. kind regards aidan