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BANNED: Fly Eagle Jets from Florida Jets

Old 08-25-2014, 05:04 AM
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FTiano
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Default BANNED: Fly Eagle Jets from Florida Jets

The unacceptable number of airframe failures has urged us to make the decision to ban any Fly Eagle Jet product from flying at Florida Jets, effective immediately. If some company has taken over the manufacturing of FEJ products, those models are subject to being banned as well. I imagine this will cause some grief for a few people and for that I apologize, but it is in the interest of the safety of thousands of spectators, and other pilots, that encouraged this announcement. Hopefully this is reaching any effected pilots in plenty of time to change their travel arrangements or which jet they were considering to bring. Thank you, FT
Old 08-25-2014, 05:28 AM
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Svein Erik Riis
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Finally a guy who has the balls to say NO to a FEJ at a major jetevent. You rocks FT!!
Old 08-25-2014, 05:43 AM
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FalconWings
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oh wow!.........wonder why it took so long to do somtehing that makes perfect sense!
Old 08-25-2014, 06:02 AM
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WimB
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Frank must have balls made out of solid bronze...........

Wim
Old 08-25-2014, 06:30 AM
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rhklenke
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Originally Posted by FalconWings View Post
oh wow!.........wonder why it took so long to do somtehing that makes perfect sense!
I applaud Frank's stand and the fact that he made it at this point to allow guys to make other arrangements. It has become clear that at big events where there are a lot of people, if the organizers allow planes from this manufacturer to fly and someone gets hurt, the lawyers would have a field day. Frank is taking a reasonable stand to protect his investments in the hobby.

At the same time, airframe failures are not uncommon and affect lots of manufacturers. In addition, with a well-managed jet flight line, the chances of such an occurrence resulting in the aircraft coming close to people is very small. That, and the fact that there is NO guidance for CD's to make such a call makes it difficult for the average event organizer to institute such a ban - so let's not pile on them. The fact that Frank has done so will make it easier for them to follow suit...

Bob
Old 08-25-2014, 06:43 AM
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Thank You
Old 08-25-2014, 07:08 AM
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FalconWings
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Originally Posted by rhklenke View Post
I applaud Frank's stand and the fact that he made it at this point to allow guys to make other arrangements. It has become clear that at big events where there are a lot of people, if the organizers allow planes from this manufacturer to fly and someone gets hurt, the lawyers would have a field day. Frank is taking a reasonable stand to protect his investments in the hobby.

At the same time, airframe failures are not uncommon and affect lots of manufacturers. In addition, with a well-managed jet flight line, the chances of such an occurrence resulting in the aircraft coming close to people is very small. That, and the fact that there is NO guidance for CD's to make such a call makes it difficult for the average event organizer to institute such a ban - so let's not pile on them. The fact that Frank has done so will make it easier for them to follow suit...

Bob
I agree with you Bob. It just so happens that FEJ seems to be the better "documented" brand. Doing this must not be easy, as it dicards many modelers who have not had issues.
Old 08-25-2014, 07:49 AM
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Well done Frank

All it takes is one bad accident and all of us will feel the pain.
Old 08-25-2014, 08:09 AM
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Frank, I applaud you in taking a stand on this issue to maintain a safe event for pilots and spectators. You and Dave Searles are leading by example.
Old 08-25-2014, 08:28 AM
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Awesome Job Frank!!
Scott
Old 08-25-2014, 08:30 AM
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ravill
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It's a sad day to see anything get "banned" but, boy have FEJ dug their own grave.

R.I.P. (P = pieces!)
Old 08-25-2014, 08:52 AM
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Randy M.
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It's about time someone with the c.o.jones to make a stand. As long as guys keep buying their junk they will keep selling it as is. Now maybe they will make some changes or just go away. Either way, I'm done with them after one crash. Not getting burned again. Pun intended. Happy Easter Day FEJ.
Old 08-25-2014, 08:59 AM
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Bravo!
Old 08-25-2014, 09:10 AM
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HI , well done FRANK,
Three years ago, before anyone new the problems with FEJ's, I tried to give advice to fix some of their problems, only to be shot down.
Where are you now FEJ groupees
Rcpete
[h=2]RE: Fly Eagle Jet A-10 1/6.25 Build[/h]
I think you are a sad person if he thinks posting some miss fortune on line. Maybe rcpete you should try and do something constructive with your time it might just make you a better person.
Damo
SM F-16 1/6 Powered By KingTech K-170F
FEJ BAe Hawk 100 1:4 1/2 Powered By Kingtech K-180G
Next Project For 2014 ???



Old 08-25-2014, 09:41 AM
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Out of curiosity how many FEJ planes have crashed at Florida Jets, compared to say Skymaster? I would venture to say more Skymaster Jets have crashed are they on the ban list too?

I'm not taking any sides, just trying to figure out your logic here.
Old 08-25-2014, 09:46 AM
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Mods hat off

Major kudos to Frank for making a stand.

It has to be clear to anyone who has been following this topic that some FEJ jets have substantial structural issues. These jets should indeed not be allowed to fly at shows and maybe not at all.

However some FEJ jets seem to be safe to fly without modifications and some owners of the FEJ jets with structural issues have made many modifications to them and are now flying them successfully.

What I would like to see is some program that would allow the owners of such jets to document the modifications then demonstrate that the jets are safe to fly by making several flights under observation in a safe location well away from any crowds. Such flights to include all manoeuvres that they will fly at a show and must include at least two full throttle passes. Under exceptional circumstances and with the agreement of the observer/examiner a high speed pass at less than full throttle may be allowed.

It may be worth while to base any scheme on the UK Large Model Association's scheme which has been operating successfully for many years. http://www.largemodelassociation.com...20kg-revision/
Old 08-25-2014, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DiscoWings View Post
Out of curiosity how many FEJ planes have crashed at Florida Jets, compared to say Skymaster? I would venture to say more Skymaster Jets have crashed are they on the ban list too?

I'm not taking any sides, just trying to figure out your logic here.
I'm sure there is some logic ( Definition:: Logic is often divided into three parts: inductive reasoning, abductive reasoning, and deductive reasoning.) at play here, and Frank has covered all three of those I think. But, I think common sense is all one would need to come to this conclusion and decision. Like everything else going on in this world, If everyone would replace the words 'Politically Correct " with " Morally Correct " There wouldn't be so much freaking controversy. Well know deep down this is the right thing to do. Not going to Florida is not the end on the world.. Initiate plan B.

Danno
Old 08-25-2014, 10:01 AM
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David Searles
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Originally Posted by DiscoWings View Post
Out of curiosity how many FEJ planes have crashed at Florida Jets, compared to say Skymaster? I would venture to say more Skymaster Jets have crashed are they on the ban list too?

I'm not taking any sides, just trying to figure out your logic here.
The appropriate question is not "how many" but "why? FEJ crashes have consistently been related to defined and confirmed structural weaknesses in their design and construction techniques. These deficiencies have created a scenario of no longer questioning if the structure will fail, but when it will fail. And to what collateral damage?

Kudo's to Frank.

David S
Old 08-25-2014, 10:10 AM
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ravill
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Originally Posted by DiscoWings View Post
Out of curiosity how many FEJ planes have crashed at Florida Jets, compared to say Skymaster? I would venture to say more Skymaster Jets have crashed are they on the ban list too?

I'm not taking any sides, just trying to figure out your logic here.

This is, really, an incomplete question.

I bet there have been more BVM jet crashes at florida jets than probably any other jet manufacture combined! Florida Jets is like BV's back yard! There are like a million BVM jets flying there.

A more relavent question would be how many FEJ per capita jets have crashed at florida jets.

And I bet, per capita, FEJ reigns supreme in that department.
Old 08-25-2014, 10:10 AM
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DiscoWings
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Right, But the fundamental reason for banning FEJ is for safety, If you do this you need to include Skymaster jets too, as well as the older jet legend jets these all have problems and based on the Flordia Jets from the past 4 years have crashed way more than FEJ.

The main problem with FEJ is the lack of testing on their airframes, Not every Airframe they release has problems, and if some applicable mods can be done it can be made safe. This can't be done to all airframes, some airframes simply are not fixable, but most are. If you compare pre-honey comb airframes to skymaster they hardly seem different most of the issues were isolated to retracts/air cylinders. FEJ is not a out of box ready product and that is where the problem lies is inexperienced builders chose to go with the aircraft not knowing where things can fail.

Blanket banning is a slippery slope.
Old 08-25-2014, 10:14 AM
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jetpilot
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Problem is that some of these airplanes look ok until flight 30-50.
Another is that the wings are folding. how do you repair the wings beside rebuild them completely?
Stabs flutter, wings flutter, fuse flexes. whats the point? Hang it on the wall and start over with something else.
All these guys assume they are golden with a repaired/modified stab, then the wing folds. Luckily nooone was hurt. the opposite direction would have been bad.
Scott
Old 08-25-2014, 10:17 AM
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Would I recommend a FEJ product? No?
However, if someone has re-enforced it addressed all known issues, then sure, its as good as any other aircraft.

I have 3 FEJ airframes, and there hawk is a great plane, but expect to spend another $400 in upgrades and about 5-10 hours doing mods to it. Once done its as good as skymaster, actually no it flies better than the skymaster. I don't know about the 1/6 f-18 or 1/7 F-15. But I have had the elevators rebuilt on the F-18, placed rudder servos inside the rudders, New plywood ribs installed in the wings, turbine mounts have been re-enforced and elevator mounts strengthened. Next would be to replace stock exhaust pipes with TAm, so overall I'll be in it for another $600.00 in parts and about 20 hours of additional building time. After this its as strong as anything else on the market.
Old 08-25-2014, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by DiscoWings View Post
..... If you compare pre-honey comb airframes to skymaster they hardly seem different most of the issues were isolated to retracts/air cylinders......

.....Blanket banning is a slippery slope.
Dude, are you blind? Did you not scroll up and see the internals of the "old" pre-honey combed FEJ that I, MYSELF, took xrays of and dismantled?! How can you possibly, possibly, say that their problems were only "isolated to retracts/air cylinders"?!

Wow.

Hey Horse (the would be you Disco), here's the water.

.....toe tapping....waiting for the horse to drink.

And we can all agree that blanket banning is a slippery slope. But banning FEJ is hardly, HARDLY, blanket. Come on.
Old 08-25-2014, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jetpilot View Post
Problem is that some of these airplanes look ok until flight 30-50.
Another is that the wings are folding. how do you repair the wings beside rebuild them completely?
Stabs flutter, wings flutter, fuse flexes. whats the point? Hang it on the wall and start over with something else.
All these guys assume they are golden with a repaired/modified stab, then the wing folds. Luckily nooone was hurt. the opposite direction would have been bad.
Scott
The wings folded on the Large Hawk, that was more of a prototype and should have had more testing done, but the 1.45 hawk with the updated stab and new pipe is going strong. As for flights, most fliers I know never reach 30-50 as they are either tired of the airframe or it was damaged in a landing/take off because of equipment failure such as a flame out.
Old 08-25-2014, 10:20 AM
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And the major difference is when Skymaster or other manufacture crashes from a manufacture default, it is addressed and fixed, unlike FEJ who could give a sh*t less, your on your own marketing strategy/customer service.
Scott

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