Hello jetcat 140 rx owners;
my 140 rx spins freely sometimes and then gets stuck. The bearings seem fine and if I can get it to start, it runs. it takes me about 3-4 attempts to start it stopping to flick the compressor wheel to get it freed again.
i have already sent it to CA once and it does the same thing as when it left for CA.
this is my 9th jetcat and my worst one so far. Two jet rallys no flights at one, 4 flights at the other and about 16 start attempts and one round trip to CA with no improvement.

Anyone else having any issues? Any solutions?

Grounded in MN,
Dave

Don't have the answer, but I've seen pretty much every engine from a P-60 thru a P-200 stick at one time or another. The P-200 was bad enough that we carried a dowel to reach up the tailpipe and spin the motor to free it up. For me, its been mostly P-80's, but not so often lately. I was thinking it had something to do with Aeroshell 500 oil, but recently, I saw a P-60 stick and the owner was using JetCat oil.

If I had to guess, I would say the needle valve for the fuel feed to oil the bearings is set too rich and the bearings gum up. But then, I don't really know.

Dave

Does it free if you push it forwards (turbine wheel) or back (compressor) Needs to go back either way to have the spacing sorted.

Dave

This is different from Sticky bearings (aeroshell 500 was the worst!)

Thanks guys.
i don't have sticky bearings. It goes completely free to stuck, like there is a brake on it.

but I already sent it once to jetcat USA and am no better... So what next ? Jetcat USA or jetcat Germany?

Dave,

What oil are you using?

Gabriel

Don't laugh at me... try this. Rotate the engine 180 degrees; so if the label is up right now, put it down. Let me know if the problem still exists.

Dustin

Give the guys another chance in the USA, there are a couple of things, inc the bearing mounts which float.

Thanks all.

Dustin, no laughing, I have heard that it can make a difference from John R.. Although it doesn't make much sense and will place my connections in a bad place. I will try it though....

This had done it from day one, not an oil issue..

Not going to laugh either,I have seen this work on a p120.

Hi Dave:

I feel for you buddy. I have (2) P-140RX as you know. 17 runs on one and 26 runs on the other in heat and humidity and both start and run perfectly. Absolutely no sticking. The V10 manual specifically states not to use DTE Light or 2 cycle oil. I have been running all my other JC, AMT, and Rhino with DTE for 5 years without noticeable problems, but I have been running KingTech Oil for what it is worth in my P-140's.

I did have an old P-180 that used to seize when cooling down regularly. Bob and or John took a thousandth or two off the NGV and solved the issue.

Suggest taking a bright LED light and 10X hand lens and inspecting compressor and turbine wheel next time it sticks. Anything even just possibly, rubbing? If nothing seen, then it would seem to be in the shaft tunnel/shaft alignment, bearing assembly, or pre-loaders. I am sure you have already checked, but be certain the starter solenoid engages and disengages completely.

Tom

Just curious, have you tried running diesel to see if it behaves a differently?

Hi
using approved oil in all my jetcats.

I have had the ngv clearance issue before too, this is different and only during startup.
Tom - nothing feels or sounds like it is scratching. It just feels like resistance to spin.

not running diesel in my jetcat and I don't think that is the issue. I think it is a spacing/preload issue.

I would like to get it settled as I have an a10 that needs turbines and I was hoping to put 140s in there...

Used the 180 degree technique with mine a while ago and it worked but aventually the ngv was replaced.

Dave:

I have a p180rx that has no sticking issues, so that is not a norm. My kingtech k100g did develop a "ticking" noise when I would spin the compressor around 12 hours. A few hours later the compressor would "stick", it didn't take much force but enough to stop it from a free spin.

The K100g had massive damage I found out after I sent it in. The bearings were bad, the compressor rubbed, the diffuser was rubbed, and the shaft tunnel was shortened from the heat, ruining the bearings. In my case it was caused by DTE light. The engine ran fine and made no noise during the run. A couple more hours of that and who knows.

Also, I just got my P180rx back from jetcat. I asked them to service it and they didn't. I have had sent it two times and hoping they have it fixed now. I'll run it up today but they put an entire 2 minutes of testing on the engine.

I do wonder, if you heat the engine up with a heat gun if the problem goes away.

But given its new I just cant recommend doing anything to it.

I plan to run up my p180rx today lets see if they got it fixed. Not too happy about high hours on it still, I've already wasted $80 sending it to them twice. I wanted it serviced since it will have to back again!



I say this NOT to bash jetcat but to inform you, that its entirely possible they barely tested it.

Hi essyou35

Was that diagnosis made by Kingtech?

I ask because I have 30+ hours on my k100g (DTE light all the way) with no issues to date.



Paul.

If they knew the problem, why would they run it for a long time? My motor did all the leg work for yours. They put over 6 hours of run time on my 180rx in flight making sure all the adjustments were correct for "the fix." They probably opened your motor, noted the problem, fixed the problem, test ran it and it was good. I now have what amounts to a brand new engine. Accel is astounding and static thrust is incredible. Try it you will see. Also how many hours are on your engine? It wouldn't make sense to service an engine that has a 50hr service interval with very little time on it. Services are not free and they probably wanted to save you money.

Thanks for the information.

When I sent mine in John R told me they ran it there and that it ran fine so they did not tear into it. So I wasnt feeling very confident. MY one start at home was ok and then it failed to start each time I tried at the jet rally.

I called him again to ask - what next? Do I send it back to CA again? As I pulled my box off the shelf to consider shipping it back I saw that on my last invoice it says it was disassembled and reassembled, which John says didnt happen. Just interesting that the paperwork and the phone report are different and I still have the same problem.

I hope they can fix it soon but I am sure it will require a breakdown and reassembly.

Dave

...

Su35. It is 50 hours for the service interval on the rx motors. I've seen it on multiple websites. Check dreamworks or motors and rotors. The only thing recommended to be replaced at 25 hours is the fuel pump. That comes straight from the rx manual.

http://www.motorsandrotors.co/index....roducts_id=785



http://www.dreamworksrc.com/catalog/Jetcat-P-180Rx

Sorry about this Dave. John will get you squared away. I liked the video of your F-16.

Change the Pump every 25 hrs?!?!?!? Well I'll never be investing in one of these engines!

I am pretty sure you don't have to replace the pump every 25 hours.

I don't think you have to either. I'm just quoting the manual.

cyphur:

I spoke with JOhn Redman today who ensured me the service interval on the P180RX is in fact 25 hours. I informed him of the dreamworks mistake.

I did find out he did replace my bearings, they did not reset the timers to 0 like other turbines. I didnt see bearings on the invoice and I didnt see the timer reset which confused me.

Well, after discussing this with John by phone, the 140 RX is enjoying another trip to CA.

I hope this one comes back better because I just bought 2 others for the A10. Maybe I should have just spent the money on a trip to CA for myself, or for some psychotherapy if these two new ones don't work properly.

Dave

Very very brave.