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To filter or not to filter thatís is the question?

Old 11-17-2018, 06:37 PM
  #26  
DHC6
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Skunkwurk,

Thats what I’m using in my Hawk. Love the Intairco filters. Just with the A10 it’s not really possible to see them especially since ATJ has them between the airtrap and pump. I would need a HOLE lot of extra fuel line to have them accessible, which is something I don’t like having.
Old 11-17-2018, 07:50 PM
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Felt Clunk in Tank, Screen (Sullivan) filter on the Vent and an Open Header Tank, but after 20 odd years I'm still evaluating
Old 11-17-2018, 08:02 PM
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I use filters after the pump, always have and I suppose always will, on my last install the filter is very accessible and easy to service, I check it around every six months or so, the debris that I've seen has been minimal, I filter the heck out of my gas before it reaches the engine, also installed it in a vertical position to prevent any air bubbles from getting trap in there, never seen algae in my gas can or in any of my jet's fuel systems.

I must be doing something right that is keeping me from experiencing fuel filter related problems, I think regular service of the components is the key here.

Just offering my experiences to the OP.

Last edited by CARS II; 11-18-2018 at 10:46 AM.
Old 11-18-2018, 03:57 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by philjac94 View Post
Felt Clunk in Tank, Screen (Sullivan) filter on the Vent and an Open Header Tank, but after 20 odd years I'm still evaluating
With you on that one Phil. Mine is slightly different, but basically the same thinking.

Cheers,

JanR
Old 11-18-2018, 04:16 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by gunradd View Post
I normally do not run filters after the pump. Little air bubbles like to go in and hang out until it turns into one big bubble.
Thank you Chris! This is the BEST reason ever for not running one, and this is from the advice of a Chief Turbine Mechanic for a Turbine Flight Dept. He has seen the issues.
Old 11-18-2018, 05:14 AM
  #31  
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I always use a filter.. I install it per instructions, in the positive pressure section of the fuel system, vertically mounted and in a accessible place so I can check and clean it once a year. Easy as that.

No matter how much you filter your fuel, slime develops everywhere... pretty much like fake news and flat earth theories.. You better use a good filter! LOL
Old 11-18-2018, 08:06 AM
  #32  
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I am not alone! Yay!!
Old 11-18-2018, 09:34 AM
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I don't use filters in the jets either. I filter my fuel (diesel) from pump to can using Mr. Funnel (traps water as well.) I have a filter on the pickup of the fuel can before the pump and one after the pump. I have a UAT in all my jets but no other filter. I use algaecide in my fuel and never had "slime" (algae).
Old 11-18-2018, 10:04 AM
  #34  
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Default grey matter

Originally Posted by reo View Post
I have always used a filter between the pump and the turbine, i've seen a new pump throw off grey matter during break in which reinforced my thought process in this regard.
Interesting gray matter comment. I am gonna chime in with my $0.02 on this one. This is just an FYI from my work experience. (26 years refining and chemicals)

One of the last processes Jet fuel goes through (before going to sales tanks for delivery to the customer) is a clay filtering process. This is basically to help with the purity of the product. Better purity, better price. Simple.

BUT... every now and then these filters fail and contaminate the final product. We say contaminate because basically it drops the purity significantly and causes us to sell it at a much lower rate. It does show up in good filters as a slight grey dust/matter. (micron type of filter of course!)


Old 11-18-2018, 10:15 AM
  #35  
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Just food for thought, being an aviation mechanic once upon a time, I have replaced fuel filters and no matter how much you filter prior too putting it into the system stuff always manages to make its way to the engine fuel filters. Anything mechanical like a pump prior to the engine has the potential send trash down stream. On a second not I have experience the dreaded slime problem which clogged a filter, if I would have had the filter it could have very easily clogged the turbine up costing a great deal of money and time to fix. At the time I didnt know it but well before the filter clogged and caused issues it was talking to me, I had sluggish throttle response a few times prior that raised concern. I do think its totally up to you and I am a firm believer in what ever works for you, but these things come with the turbine so its not like your paying extra for it. Plus I would rather have and never need it than the one time it could have helped not. Cheers thats my opinion and I will tap out. I hope everyone has a great build season and happy holidays!!!!
Old 11-18-2018, 10:45 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by DHC6 View Post
Just with the A10 itís not really possible to see them especially since ATJ has them between the airtrap and pump. I would need a HOLE lot of extra fuel line to have them accessible, which is something I donít like having.
Ignore that ATJ recommendation and install the filters between the pump and the turbines if you choose to install them at all. ATJ is trying to save trash from getting into the pump, but as discussed most of us filter the heck out of the fuel before it goes in and then the UAT serves as a great filter ahead of the pump as well. Could make for an easier install also. Thatís if you choose to run a filter. I do, along with everyone I fly with, but I unsderstand lots of people have had both success and failure with either method so to each their own.
Old 11-18-2018, 11:42 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by RCFlyerDan View Post
Thank you Chris! This is the BEST reason ever for not running one, and this is from the advice of a Chief Turbine Mechanic for a Turbine Flight Dept. He has seen the issues.
I always mount it vertically and never have any bubbles caught in there. With a little thought during the install you can make most things accessible. Guys spend too much time trying to hide components instead of making them serviceable.
Old 11-18-2018, 03:07 PM
  #38  
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Some filters are more specific regarding orientation than others. For example, the JetCat (aluminum) filter is advised to be mounted vertically to avoid air being trapped. The Intairco is more flexible, per the manufacturer it can be mounted horizontally or vertically. We just need to follow instructions... instead of tribal knowledge.

Also, as someone pointed out, it is true that some turbine manufacturers advise to filter before the pump, as debris can definitely harm the pump. But it seems we pretty much have consensus that we all typically filter our fuel before it enters the jet's fuel system. All good stuff, what ever makes you happy and feel better about your setup too.
Old 11-18-2018, 07:29 PM
  #39  
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Unless I had personally cut apart, cleaned and reassembled the fuel tank in ANY ARF I would never run without an onboard filter (I would likely cut the tanks open in any case). I have seen too much junk in the tanks, and junk that flakes off over tine

Clogging the turbine is a problem but in my experience, crap clogging the shut off valve can end up blowing the motor up (to say nothing of the potential hot starts). I run the filter between the pump and shutoff valve for this reason.
Old 11-19-2018, 04:36 AM
  #40  
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I don't run a separate on-board filter, but like everyone else I filter at least twice when pumping from my fuel caddy.

I have been relying on the Air Trap filer as the on-board filter.

I have been using MAP Air Traps with the internal pleated paper filter and I have seen them start to plug-up, resulting in increased pump voltages and even multiple flame-outs. Back-flushing has helped temporarily, but I have gone through at least 3 MAP Air Traps over the last few years in probably 200 flights on 2 models. I add Biobor to every batch of kerosene I buy to kill off any algae.

After the last Air Trap replacement I emptied out my fuel caddy and found a bunch of sludge in the bottom, probably a 5 year accumulation from the pump kerosene I run. This was probably the major source of the gunk clogging the Air Trap as the caddy clunk filter was sitting right in the sludge. Don't forget to change out the caddy filters on a regular basis. An annual fuel caddy cleaning is a good idea too.

An additional filter downstream of the pump would not have helped.


Paul
Old 11-19-2018, 05:00 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by JSF-TC View Post
I don't run a separate on-board filter, but like everyone else I filter at least twice when pumping from my fuel caddy.

I have been relying on the Air Trap filer as the on-board filter.

I add Biobor to every batch of kerosene I buy to kill off any algae.

An additional filter downstream of the pump would not have helped.


Paul
This is why I use, as some have said, that toxic JetA or A1, rather then that "expensive greenhouse Kerosene"; is that Biobor and usually anti static are already added. The hundred gallons or so that I burn per year is nothing to one start on an airliner engine for the greenhouse issues.

Last edited by RCFlyerDan; 11-19-2018 at 05:04 AM.
Old 11-19-2018, 12:09 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by RCFlyerDan View Post
This is why I use, as some have said, that toxic JetA or A1, rather then that "expensive greenhouse Kerosene"; is that Biobor and usually anti static are already added. The hundred gallons or so that I burn per year is nothing to one start on an airliner engine for the greenhouse issues.
What is greenhouse kerosene??
Old 11-19-2018, 12:53 PM
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Naahhh, must be the building in the backyard where he keeps his rc toyzz

Just saying
Old 11-19-2018, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Wilshere View Post
, I wouldn't put JetA1 through one of my own turbines, I chose to buy expensive green house Kerosene. .
We have a lot of European visitors and those that live here in Southwest Florida. Iíve been told by a couple of them that our jet A is toxic. I guess not as refined, more sulfur? Have to ask Dave. Maybe Dblex would be kind enough to inform us?
Old 11-19-2018, 01:39 PM
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Posted by Dave Wilshere [img]images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/img]
, I wouldn't put JetA1 through one of my own turbines, I chose to buy expensive green house Kerosene. .
Well excuuuuuse me. I suppose you want some Gray Poop-On that too.
Just kidding you know, whatever
Old 11-19-2018, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by causeitflies View Post

What is greenhouse kerosene??
it’s your standard kerosene that is used in heaters inside greenhouses. Nothing special. Same as what we use in our turbines. Just make sure you filter it as I have seen the odd tiny bubble of water floating in it. Using a Mr Funnel is probably one of the best. You can also use a dry chamois which also does a good job of filtering moisture/ water.

Last edited by stegl; 11-19-2018 at 03:41 PM.
Old 11-19-2018, 05:03 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by DrV View Post
I don't use filters in the jets either. I filter my fuel (diesel) from pump to can using Mr. Funnel (traps water as well.) I have a filter on the pickup of the fuel can before the pump and one after the pump. I have a UAT in all my jets but no other filter. I use algaecide in my fuel and never had "slime" (algae).
What algaecide do you use and where do you get it?

Why arenít more more people using it if it seems to be such a big problem?
Old 11-19-2018, 07:09 PM
  #48  
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At the moment I'm not and haven't use any algecide, simply because I haven't had that problem, now when I move to the Dallas area where there is more moisture in the air I may have to use that, don't know yet.
Old 11-19-2018, 09:34 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by camss69 View Post


What algaecide do you use and where do you get it?

Why arenít more more people using it if it seems to be such a big problem?


I use Biobor JF.

https://www.amazon.com/Biobor-JF-Die.../dp/B06XYTR8JW
Old 11-20-2018, 04:42 AM
  #50  
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I'm fairly confident the JetA I buy at the airport doesn't have algaecide in it already, because when I don't add biobor I get algae everytime.

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