JET_TECH Fuel cell question or two
12-26-2018, 12:54 PM
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JET_TECH Fuel cell question or two
I have a few questions, I have never assembled jet tech fuel cell before and have been searching several forum for some info, First: the screw in fuel fitting with o ring, does it need to be sealed with something or a dot of epoxy to keep it from loosening? next I have some tillotson type filters, they will not fit through the holes. do you all use them or just a big clunk. Hey thanks for the info. They are twin 80 for a Carf eurosport. I also have a very large set of tanks that came with the euro sport but they seem very fragile, but have a total of about one more liter of capacity. any thoughts on using the large Carf tanks?
Thanks again for any info
T Green
Thanks again for any info
T Green
Last edited by CRAPTECH; 12-26-2018 at 02:39 PM.
12-26-2018, 02:46 PM
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thanks, yea I put it away and was out driving with my wife and figured it out. Put the filter on the fuel line, the slide the felt filter off the clunk on to the fuel line, put the clunk in the hole then compress the felt, force it into the hole, the pull the clunk with the fuel line and it will force the felt into place.
any suggestion the the screw in fitting, sealer?
T green
any suggestion the the screw in fitting, sealer?
T green
12-26-2018, 06:50 PM
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As Steve Collins stated, you do not need a felt filter in the tank. Use a heavy clunk weight in the tank, and mount a good quality fuel filter(such as a JetCat filter) between the pump and the engine. This will catch any crud and any very small brass filings from pump gear wear.. Be sure to mount the filter vertically to keep air from being trapped in the filter. I have been doing it this way since 1998 or 1999 without any problems.
12-26-2018, 07:30 PM
#5
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I was always leery of felt filters. Seems to me that early on I read of issues with them degrading over time and sloughing off fibers that can clog the tiny needles in the fuel manifold. Anyone else have a similar recall? I have stayed away from them for that reason.
12-26-2018, 08:13 PM
#6
I was always leery of felt filters. Seems to me that early on I read of issues with them degrading over time and sloughing off fibers that can clog the tiny needles in the fuel manifold. Anyone else have a similar recall? I have stayed away from them for that reason.
12-27-2018, 05:28 AM
#8
I have a few questions, I have never assembled jet tech fuel cell before and have been searching several forum for some info, First: the screw in fuel fitting with o ring, does it need to be sealed with something or a dot of epoxy to keep it from loosening? next I have some tillotson type filters, they will not fit through the holes. do you all use them or just a big clunk. Hey thanks for the info. They are twin 80 for a Carf eurosport. I also have a very large set of tanks that came with the euro sport but they seem very fragile, but have a total of about one more liter of capacity. any thoughts on using the large Carf tanks?
Thanks again for any info
T Green
Thanks again for any info
T Green
12-27-2018, 06:46 AM
#9
If this is your first jet, I too recommend getting a single. especially if you are starting with a warbird. A single will save you a lots of $s when you crash it. Better yet, look at a training jet and better your chances of not crashing until you get a lot of experience. I personally don't like the filtered clunks. So much easier to clean an external filter and you need one between the fuel pump and the turbine anyway, … unless the turbine has the pump mounted in the turbine. Then they don't want any filter before the turbine because there is a filter under the cover too. O-Rings do not need sealer, unless there is a problem with the sealing surface. I am using a dubro tank in my Sprint. It is flimsy and has still held up well over the years. I personally have never used a pop bottle. But I have seen several out there and they seem to work. Only thing is they don't take full advantage of the space in smaller jets as well as a custom tank might. I go with whatever gives me the most fuel as there seldom seems to be enough.
12-30-2018, 10:13 AM
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Yes, it is my first jet build. I do have a boomerang elan that I got all together and have been flying giants for a very long time. I is just that I have never had jet tech tanks. and had a few questions. As for the felt filter, (why do they give them to you if you cannot get them in the tank) I am about 50/50 on them any ways.. I usually use a good inline filter on the gas motors . but looking for some input from the experts. don"t want to reinvent the wheel. When I got the jet, Comp ARF Eurosport, I got two set of tanks. the jet tech and a set of Comp ARFs. the Comp arf tanks look very fragile but hold a lot more fuel, but look very thin in some area. I thought that I would put in the jet tech at first then change them out to the big tanks later.( maybe) thanks for all the help and should have my plane ready in a few week.
it is a CARF eurosport with king tech 160g2.
thanks for the info, and it is only a single engine.
Happy New Years
T green
it is a CARF eurosport with king tech 160g2.
thanks for the info, and it is only a single engine.
Happy New Years
T green
12-30-2018, 12:36 PM
#12
T. Green;
Welcome to jet’s. I’m glad to hear that you have the Boomarang. It is a good first jet. And more forgiving than the Eurosport. I am also glad to hear that it is going to be a single engine. You just don’t need the aggravation yet.
I think that you will find if you try the felt clunks with the CARF tanks, the clunk will go through the hole. JetTech is a supplier to CARF and an upgrade, just as the engines, radio equipment, etc. The felt clunk is made for CARF tanks. Or the CARF tanks are made for the clunk. Whichever way you want to look at it. Personally, I would just install the CARF tanks and not worry about them. I’m flying a CARF Viper and Lightning, both with CARF tanks. They both have a few hundred flights on them with no issues. The Viper I actually got in 2012. Both are in my picture gallery. The biggest trouble that you will have with any of the tanks, is having your fuel pump fill the tank at too high of a flow. This can and will blow the lines off inside and outside the tank. The other issue is cracking the tank, and it doesn’t matter which type of tank, both will do it.Make sure that you safety wire all of the fuel connections. Tie wrap is not tight enough. As far as filtering, the fuel can should have one, the UAT is another one prior to the pump and valves, and then there’s usually one after the pump prior to the engine. The felt clunk is just another filter prior to the UAT.
I hope that you have found someone to help you. I’m sure that you know you’re not supposed to fly them without the waiver. And, supposed to be on a buddy box. Bite your pride and do it. Just make sure that the guy can fly them, and has been instructing for awhile. Just because the club appoints him as the jet training officer, doesn’t mean he can fly or should be teaching. Flying large scale helps, if it is a heavy wing loaded, kit built warbird. If you have been flying 3-D, then you may have some issues. The reason for this, is that prop planes have a fake lift created by prop wash over the wings. This makes the plane fly and have flight control response. Jets on the other hand do not, and will not get out of trouble just by going to full power. Make sure that you also have your instructor teach you how to glide, if he knows how to glide. Believe it or not, most guys do not know how to glide, and didn’t learn in their primary training. I find that a lot with the guys that I train jets. I see guys wreck and total their airplane/jet when the engine quits for no good reason, other than poor training. Most make the mistake of giving up all their energy and diving it down to the ground going too fast, and land off runway, when they had the altitude and energy to have landed on the runway. They either put it on the ground too soon and flip it, or give up the energy and altitude, only to stall it into the ground. These jets cruise around at about 150 miles an hour plus. If a jet engine quits in level flight, you have approximately 100 miles an hour to lose to approach speed. This is a lot of energy management. The best is to maintain altitude as the speed bleeds off until reaching best glide. Best glide for a sports jet is the wing cord parallel to the horizon. For warbird jets or your Eurosport, wings level and go to a 5 degree angle of attack and plan your decent. Any higher of an angle of attack, then the jet is creating more drag than lift, causing a higher rate of decent. A flame out with either of my jets in level flight, both will glide at least half way around a large pattern. So, take your time and breathe. If you fly full scale and know this, I’m sorry to go through it, but it might help someone else reading this forum.
Take care! Dan
Welcome to jet’s. I’m glad to hear that you have the Boomarang. It is a good first jet. And more forgiving than the Eurosport. I am also glad to hear that it is going to be a single engine. You just don’t need the aggravation yet.
I think that you will find if you try the felt clunks with the CARF tanks, the clunk will go through the hole. JetTech is a supplier to CARF and an upgrade, just as the engines, radio equipment, etc. The felt clunk is made for CARF tanks. Or the CARF tanks are made for the clunk. Whichever way you want to look at it. Personally, I would just install the CARF tanks and not worry about them. I’m flying a CARF Viper and Lightning, both with CARF tanks. They both have a few hundred flights on them with no issues. The Viper I actually got in 2012. Both are in my picture gallery. The biggest trouble that you will have with any of the tanks, is having your fuel pump fill the tank at too high of a flow. This can and will blow the lines off inside and outside the tank. The other issue is cracking the tank, and it doesn’t matter which type of tank, both will do it.Make sure that you safety wire all of the fuel connections. Tie wrap is not tight enough. As far as filtering, the fuel can should have one, the UAT is another one prior to the pump and valves, and then there’s usually one after the pump prior to the engine. The felt clunk is just another filter prior to the UAT.
I hope that you have found someone to help you. I’m sure that you know you’re not supposed to fly them without the waiver. And, supposed to be on a buddy box. Bite your pride and do it. Just make sure that the guy can fly them, and has been instructing for awhile. Just because the club appoints him as the jet training officer, doesn’t mean he can fly or should be teaching. Flying large scale helps, if it is a heavy wing loaded, kit built warbird. If you have been flying 3-D, then you may have some issues. The reason for this, is that prop planes have a fake lift created by prop wash over the wings. This makes the plane fly and have flight control response. Jets on the other hand do not, and will not get out of trouble just by going to full power. Make sure that you also have your instructor teach you how to glide, if he knows how to glide. Believe it or not, most guys do not know how to glide, and didn’t learn in their primary training. I find that a lot with the guys that I train jets. I see guys wreck and total their airplane/jet when the engine quits for no good reason, other than poor training. Most make the mistake of giving up all their energy and diving it down to the ground going too fast, and land off runway, when they had the altitude and energy to have landed on the runway. They either put it on the ground too soon and flip it, or give up the energy and altitude, only to stall it into the ground. These jets cruise around at about 150 miles an hour plus. If a jet engine quits in level flight, you have approximately 100 miles an hour to lose to approach speed. This is a lot of energy management. The best is to maintain altitude as the speed bleeds off until reaching best glide. Best glide for a sports jet is the wing cord parallel to the horizon. For warbird jets or your Eurosport, wings level and go to a 5 degree angle of attack and plan your decent. Any higher of an angle of attack, then the jet is creating more drag than lift, causing a higher rate of decent. A flame out with either of my jets in level flight, both will glide at least half way around a large pattern. So, take your time and breathe. If you fly full scale and know this, I’m sorry to go through it, but it might help someone else reading this forum.
Take care! Dan
12-30-2018, 01:09 PM
#13
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T. Green;
Welcome to jet’s. I’m glad to hear that you have the Boomarang. It is a good first jet. And more forgiving than the Eurosport. I am also glad to hear that it is going to be a single engine. You just don’t need the aggravation yet.
I think that you will find if you try the felt clunks with the CARF tanks, the clunk will go through the hole. JetTech is a supplier to CARF and an upgrade, just as the engines, radio equipment, etc. The felt clunk is made for CARF tanks. Or the CARF tanks are made for the clunk. Whichever way you want to look at it. Personally, I would just install the CARF tanks and not worry about them. I’m flying a CARF Viper and Lightning, both with CARF tanks. They both have a few hundred flights on them with no issues. The Viper I actually got in 2012. Both are in my picture gallery. The biggest trouble that you will have with any of the tanks, is having your fuel pump fill the tank at too high of a flow. This can and will blow the lines off inside and outside the tank. The other issue is cracking the tank, and it doesn’t matter which type of tank, both will do it.Make sure that you safety wire all of the fuel connections. Tie wrap is not tight enough. As far as filtering, the fuel can should have one, the UAT is another one prior to the pump and valves, and then there’s usually one after the pump prior to the engine. The felt clunk is just another filter prior to the UAT.
I hope that you have found someone to help you. I’m sure that you know you’re not supposed to fly them without the waiver. And, supposed to be on a buddy box. Bite your pride and do it. Just make sure that the guy can fly them, and has been instructing for awhile. Just because the club appoints him as the jet training officer, doesn’t mean he can fly or should be teaching. Flying large scale helps, if it is a heavy wing loaded, kit built warbird. If you have been flying 3-D, then you may have some issues. The reason for this, is that prop planes have a fake lift created by prop wash over the wings. This makes the plane fly and have flight control response. Jets on the other hand do not, and will not get out of trouble just by going to full power. Make sure that you also have your instructor teach you how to glide, if he knows how to glide. Believe it or not, most guys do not know how to glide, and didn’t learn in their primary training. I find that a lot with the guys that I train jets. I see guys wreck and total their airplane/jet when the engine quits for no good reason, other than poor training. Most make the mistake of giving up all their energy and diving it down to the ground going too fast, and land off runway, when they had the altitude and energy to have landed on the runway. They either put it on the ground too soon and flip it, or give up the energy and altitude, only to stall it into the ground. These jets cruise around at about 150 miles an hour plus. If a jet engine quits in level flight, you have approximately 100 miles an hour to lose to approach speed. This is a lot of energy management. The best is to maintain altitude as the speed bleeds off until reaching best glide. Best glide for a sports jet is the wing cord parallel to the horizon. For warbird jets or your Eurosport, wings level and go to a 5 degree angle of attack and plan your decent. Any higher of an angle of attack, then the jet is creating more drag than lift, causing a higher rate of decent. A flame out with either of my jets in level flight, both will glide at least half way around a large pattern. So, take your time and breathe. If you fly full scale and know this, I’m sorry to go through it, but it might help someone else reading this forum.
Take care! Dan
Welcome to jet’s. I’m glad to hear that you have the Boomarang. It is a good first jet. And more forgiving than the Eurosport. I am also glad to hear that it is going to be a single engine. You just don’t need the aggravation yet.
I think that you will find if you try the felt clunks with the CARF tanks, the clunk will go through the hole. JetTech is a supplier to CARF and an upgrade, just as the engines, radio equipment, etc. The felt clunk is made for CARF tanks. Or the CARF tanks are made for the clunk. Whichever way you want to look at it. Personally, I would just install the CARF tanks and not worry about them. I’m flying a CARF Viper and Lightning, both with CARF tanks. They both have a few hundred flights on them with no issues. The Viper I actually got in 2012. Both are in my picture gallery. The biggest trouble that you will have with any of the tanks, is having your fuel pump fill the tank at too high of a flow. This can and will blow the lines off inside and outside the tank. The other issue is cracking the tank, and it doesn’t matter which type of tank, both will do it.Make sure that you safety wire all of the fuel connections. Tie wrap is not tight enough. As far as filtering, the fuel can should have one, the UAT is another one prior to the pump and valves, and then there’s usually one after the pump prior to the engine. The felt clunk is just another filter prior to the UAT.
I hope that you have found someone to help you. I’m sure that you know you’re not supposed to fly them without the waiver. And, supposed to be on a buddy box. Bite your pride and do it. Just make sure that the guy can fly them, and has been instructing for awhile. Just because the club appoints him as the jet training officer, doesn’t mean he can fly or should be teaching. Flying large scale helps, if it is a heavy wing loaded, kit built warbird. If you have been flying 3-D, then you may have some issues. The reason for this, is that prop planes have a fake lift created by prop wash over the wings. This makes the plane fly and have flight control response. Jets on the other hand do not, and will not get out of trouble just by going to full power. Make sure that you also have your instructor teach you how to glide, if he knows how to glide. Believe it or not, most guys do not know how to glide, and didn’t learn in their primary training. I find that a lot with the guys that I train jets. I see guys wreck and total their airplane/jet when the engine quits for no good reason, other than poor training. Most make the mistake of giving up all their energy and diving it down to the ground going too fast, and land off runway, when they had the altitude and energy to have landed on the runway. They either put it on the ground too soon and flip it, or give up the energy and altitude, only to stall it into the ground. These jets cruise around at about 150 miles an hour plus. If a jet engine quits in level flight, you have approximately 100 miles an hour to lose to approach speed. This is a lot of energy management. The best is to maintain altitude as the speed bleeds off until reaching best glide. Best glide for a sports jet is the wing cord parallel to the horizon. For warbird jets or your Eurosport, wings level and go to a 5 degree angle of attack and plan your decent. Any higher of an angle of attack, then the jet is creating more drag than lift, causing a higher rate of decent. A flame out with either of my jets in level flight, both will glide at least half way around a large pattern. So, take your time and breathe. If you fly full scale and know this, I’m sorry to go through it, but it might help someone else reading this forum.
Take care! Dan
No problems man, never have enough info. we have a group of folks that fly jet up here, they will not let me get into trouble. I was just curious about those thin tanks.
Thanks for the info and hope to meet up with you all one day.
Terry
12-30-2018, 01:28 PM
#14
The OEM tank for my CARF UFlash had a baffle glued in it. The glue failed and a chunk of it plugged the fuel line. After the flameout, which had no visual indication, the UF went into a spiral cause I was climbing and turning. I tried several control maneuvers to recover it, … apparently to no joy. When it dropped below the tree line, I was turning away to go get the truck for recovery, and I noticed the UF gliding out straight at me about 5-10' above the tops of the bushes. I dropped the flaps and gear and landed it on the runway. It's a free jet now. Anyway, back to the point, if there is an internal baffle, I personally am not sure I would go with the OEM's tank. I guess it depends on which OEM I was considering cause I used the T-One's OEM tank. Dreamworks and probably ultimately CARF, replaced the UF's OEM Tank with an aftermarket copy.
Definitely get linked up with some jet guys. Jets fly different and there is a lot of tech B.S. to making one that is reliable. Spend some time as a spotter and you will learn a bunch! I spent an entire season helping and spotting and I do not regret one minute of that season. I can not recall a time that I ever went to the field with the jet guys and did not learn something new.
Definitely get linked up with some jet guys. Jets fly different and there is a lot of tech B.S. to making one that is reliable. Spend some time as a spotter and you will learn a bunch! I spent an entire season helping and spotting and I do not regret one minute of that season. I can not recall a time that I ever went to the field with the jet guys and did not learn something new.
12-30-2018, 05:05 PM
#15
That’s a great story about your UF, the woods, and the glide! I was spotting for a buddy of mine. He was on a left base flying over a woods before turning final. One of the flaps failed with the jet rolling over on it’s back. It was a new jet and we were doing trim and gyro adjustment flights. So his first thought it was the gyro. He turned it off, only to still be out of control. During all of this the jet is traveling further away from us. On the last dive, I thought it was gone as it disappeared below the tree line. He was still fighting. I was waiting for the sound of fiber glass going through trees. Fortunately by this time, the jet had traveled past the woods over an open area. All of a sudden, the jet popped up going vertical! He had the flaps up by this time and under control and brought it safely back to the runway. Never quit fighting until there’s sound of impact or smoke.
I’ve had the Flash with that tank, along with both the Viper and Lightning have baffles. To me, IMHO and experience, what caused the glue to fail was pilot induced, I would say that the fuel can pump was pumping the fuel into the tank too fast causing the tank to expand. The expansion caused the baffling to be pulled away from the tank sides. The joint failed beyond its pull tensions. Either that fueling, but I bet that it was several fillings prior, then caused your flame out issues sometime later from the initial joint failure. We’ve all heard a tank with an expansion crack noise. That crack may have been the joint. Just a thought. And the reason why I bring up the fuel pump pressure in the previous response.
I’ve had the Flash with that tank, along with both the Viper and Lightning have baffles. To me, IMHO and experience, what caused the glue to fail was pilot induced, I would say that the fuel can pump was pumping the fuel into the tank too fast causing the tank to expand. The expansion caused the baffling to be pulled away from the tank sides. The joint failed beyond its pull tensions. Either that fueling, but I bet that it was several fillings prior, then caused your flame out issues sometime later from the initial joint failure. We’ve all heard a tank with an expansion crack noise. That crack may have been the joint. Just a thought. And the reason why I bring up the fuel pump pressure in the previous response.
Last edited by RCFlyerDan; 12-30-2018 at 05:20 PM.
12-30-2018, 07:59 PM
#16
Your explanation for the failure could be fairly likely. On the new tank, I ended up putting in 3/16" fittings and lines to make sure there was adequate venting. But there is no baffle inside it. I also added the saddle tanks and a much larger hopper. I can get an easy 12 minutes out of the P-140. Nothing worse than worrying about running out of fuel.
