RAM Turbine Problems
05-09-2002, 05:12 AM
#26
My Feedback: (43)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chehalis,
WA
Posts: 568
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RAM Turbine Problems
Hey John, We got to get together some time. I flew the Bobcat at Shelton again today. Some fun!! Get that Topcat goin and come on down. I'm heading to San Jose jets next week to pick up my Spider Jets F-16 Tam is painting for me. I have a Jetcat P-120 in it . Should be a goer. Chuck bought a finished Cyclone that he is putting his Ram 500 in. He'll have it going befor his TopCat. When I get back lets see if we can set something up at Whidby.
Galen
Galen
05-09-2002, 11:06 AM
#27
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Oxford, MS
Posts: 3,241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RAM Turbine Problems
Sounds good in theory.
The reality is - If it don't need service, you ain't using it.
David Reid
05-09-2002, 04:31 PM
#28
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: kenilworth , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 2,369
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RAM Turbine Problems
Pegasus,
The hole in the wheel is dificult to see untill it`s on the shaft and then it`s obvious, and no im not taking the shaft out to photo it on there
The hole in the wheel is dificult to see untill it`s on the shaft and then it`s obvious, and no im not taking the shaft out to photo it on there
05-09-2002, 04:42 PM
#29
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: kenilworth , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 2,369
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RAM
Some one wrote that RAM have decided to not to let BVM or other dealers sell there engines.mmm I find it hard to belive that RAM would not want BVM to sell and promote there engines.I think it`s more like BV has now had a few months experence with jet cats and realised that they match up in quality and reliability of the rest of his products and decided its the way to go.
05-09-2002, 06:25 PM
#30
My Feedback: (4)
RAM Enginges
First off I would like to say that I own 2 RAM engines (500R and 1000R) and both work flawlessly. If I have ever had a problem with one of them I have called and have gotten an answer to my problem right then or within a day or two. The last time I had to send my 500 to them for repair after a crash I sent it in on a thursday and had it back the following tuesday. Now that is service. Now I have only been in turbines for about 18 months now and when I first started out I asked everyone online what the best engine to get was and 90% stated RAM was the best. Now these same people all say ram is crap and have switched over to JetCat (I will not mention names). Now I don't believe in following a brand blindly but, just because BV does not promote and engine anymore does not mean it is worthless. Hell he used to be a dealer for AMT but no more, he also used to be a dealer for RAM but no more, now he is a dealer for JetCat and everyone is saying that jetcat must be the best engine. Have you ever thought that maybe he is making a little something off the top for being a dealer of their engines???? Hmmmmmmm....I wonder. I have seen the JetCats in action first hand and have to say they are a wonderful engine, but I have seen problems with jetcats as well. My next engine will probably be a JetCat 160 only for the the thrust and autostart capabilities. If it was not such a pain to haul all the stuff to start an AMT I would buy an AMT. Which by far has proven itself to be the most reliable engine on the market today. I have also seen the JG Eagle engine run and have to say it is very impressive, espcecially the very low lag time from idle to full thrust.
As you can tell I am not a REP for anyone but I do believe in reporting things as I see them. Hell every company has problems and RAM is no different. Every turbine engine company has had problems sophia, turbomin, AMT, RAM, simjet, etc., give JetCat some time and I am sure you will hear of some problem with their company or engines.
Don't get me wrong I am not wishing bad on anyone or anything I am just a realist, and I am not bashing BV for promoting jetcats. He is a business man and if he can make money by selling jetcats then I hope he sells a million of them, that is what running a business is all about....making MONEY. I also do not want to start a flame war here so if anyone has any problems with any comments I have made here today then please contact me directly.
Patrick.
As you can tell I am not a REP for anyone but I do believe in reporting things as I see them. Hell every company has problems and RAM is no different. Every turbine engine company has had problems sophia, turbomin, AMT, RAM, simjet, etc., give JetCat some time and I am sure you will hear of some problem with their company or engines.
Don't get me wrong I am not wishing bad on anyone or anything I am just a realist, and I am not bashing BV for promoting jetcats. He is a business man and if he can make money by selling jetcats then I hope he sells a million of them, that is what running a business is all about....making MONEY. I also do not want to start a flame war here so if anyone has any problems with any comments I have made here today then please contact me directly.
Patrick.
05-10-2002, 02:09 AM
#31
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Rochester,
NY
Posts: 1,506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RAM Turbine Problems
"As you can tell I am not a REP for anyone but I do believe in reporting things as I see them. Hell every company has problems and RAM is no different. Every turbine engine company has had problems sophia, turbomin, AMT, RAM, simjet, etc.,"
"give JetCat some time and I am sure you will hear of some problem with their company or engines."
Yep your right! After the first 1000 runs they will all need to go back and be cleaned and balanced
"give JetCat some time and I am sure you will hear of some problem with their company or engines."
Yep your right! After the first 1000 runs they will all need to go back and be cleaned and balanced
05-10-2002, 03:36 AM
#32
Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RAM Turbine Problems
Hi Guys,
now that this topics has gotten away from specific manufacturers and engines, I would like to ask a few questions of you all in respect of what you as a turbine user would expect from an engine that you had just paid some $3000 for.
From new, how many 10 min average flights would you expect from and engine before service?.
What would you expect to be the wearing parts in a turbine engine?.
Would you expect to be able to conduct basic maintenance on your engine without having to send it back to the manufacturer?
Lets say the engine has given 200 10 mins flights, and has gone back to the manufacturer for service, what would you expect to pay for the engine to be 0 houred again.
With ref to the above question what parts would you expect to be changed out at this point?. and would you expect the engine to be fully re warranted and if so, then for what period?.
I know this sounds a bit market researchy but as you all know I manufacture the JG/TJT engines and from what I can gather there seems to be many realistic and some un realistic expectations from engine users as to what an engine should do and what sort of support a manufacturer should give.
Please, no flame, no manufacturer comparisons, this is being asked for your benifit and will give people like me a steer as to what you expect.
Many thanks and best regards,
Chris
now that this topics has gotten away from specific manufacturers and engines, I would like to ask a few questions of you all in respect of what you as a turbine user would expect from an engine that you had just paid some $3000 for.
From new, how many 10 min average flights would you expect from and engine before service?.
What would you expect to be the wearing parts in a turbine engine?.
Would you expect to be able to conduct basic maintenance on your engine without having to send it back to the manufacturer?
Lets say the engine has given 200 10 mins flights, and has gone back to the manufacturer for service, what would you expect to pay for the engine to be 0 houred again.
With ref to the above question what parts would you expect to be changed out at this point?. and would you expect the engine to be fully re warranted and if so, then for what period?.
I know this sounds a bit market researchy but as you all know I manufacture the JG/TJT engines and from what I can gather there seems to be many realistic and some un realistic expectations from engine users as to what an engine should do and what sort of support a manufacturer should give.
Please, no flame, no manufacturer comparisons, this is being asked for your benifit and will give people like me a steer as to what you expect.
Many thanks and best regards,
Chris
05-10-2002, 10:49 AM
#34
Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RAM Turbine Problems
Hi Torsten,
At 30 hours running certain parts of the engine will be worn out, either through mechanical wear or wear through errosion and stress, other parts of the engine will not be worn out in any way, it is perfectly feasable to 0 hour an engine by replacing any worn out parts and checking and testing any non worn out parts, then setting the engine back up to orig specification.
I have just had one of our field test engines returned to me after 274 cycles, a cycle being a start up run to operating temp and shut down, 250 of these cycles were flights of approx 10 mins duration the remainder were bench and demo runs, this engine is owned by Norm Thompson from Melbourne Australia, 6th in the World Jet Masters in Thailand (open class) the engine is still in running conditon and up to mid last week was being flown. On Monday this engine will be stripped down for assesment, then 0 houred and returned to him, I would expect Norm to get the same amount of runs and flying time from this engine, this is what I meant. I hope this answers your question.
At 30 hours running certain parts of the engine will be worn out, either through mechanical wear or wear through errosion and stress, other parts of the engine will not be worn out in any way, it is perfectly feasable to 0 hour an engine by replacing any worn out parts and checking and testing any non worn out parts, then setting the engine back up to orig specification.
I have just had one of our field test engines returned to me after 274 cycles, a cycle being a start up run to operating temp and shut down, 250 of these cycles were flights of approx 10 mins duration the remainder were bench and demo runs, this engine is owned by Norm Thompson from Melbourne Australia, 6th in the World Jet Masters in Thailand (open class) the engine is still in running conditon and up to mid last week was being flown. On Monday this engine will be stripped down for assesment, then 0 houred and returned to him, I would expect Norm to get the same amount of runs and flying time from this engine, this is what I meant. I hope this answers your question.
05-10-2002, 11:36 AM
#35
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Oxford, MS
Posts: 3,241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RAM Turbine Problems
Chris,
Excellent questions. I think all of us expect at least some kind of waranty with our engines. $3000 is a lot of money to spend on our toys and we want to stretch it as far as possible.
Here is what I expect, and I am sure others differ.
1) Around 200 runs (10-12 minute) before service. I would expect to pay for a bearing change, and any necessary maintenance, cleaning, etc... To get the engine brought back to 0h status should cost me whatever it costs to return it to that status.
2) I would expect that if an engine design had a change within a 1 year period of me purchasing the engine the manufacturer would either upgrade me at no charge or at a small fee. If this was a change because of an inadequeate design to start off with I feel it should be at his expense. Of course this depends on what type of change he has. See comments below.
3) If I crash the engine, or mistreat the engine (ie FOD) in any way, that's my fault and I should have to pay for whatever repairs I need.
4) If there is a problem that is a result of poor design the manufacturer should warrantee that part, and any repairs that are necessary because of that design flaw.
Changes and Upgrades.
Research and developement should be done before the engines get into the hands of the modelers. Some of us don't mind testing new products but most of us don't want to be the developement teams with our multi $$$ airplanes.
David Reid
BTW what other than the bearings wears out?
Excellent questions. I think all of us expect at least some kind of waranty with our engines. $3000 is a lot of money to spend on our toys and we want to stretch it as far as possible.
Here is what I expect, and I am sure others differ.
1) Around 200 runs (10-12 minute) before service. I would expect to pay for a bearing change, and any necessary maintenance, cleaning, etc... To get the engine brought back to 0h status should cost me whatever it costs to return it to that status.
2) I would expect that if an engine design had a change within a 1 year period of me purchasing the engine the manufacturer would either upgrade me at no charge or at a small fee. If this was a change because of an inadequeate design to start off with I feel it should be at his expense. Of course this depends on what type of change he has. See comments below.
3) If I crash the engine, or mistreat the engine (ie FOD) in any way, that's my fault and I should have to pay for whatever repairs I need.
4) If there is a problem that is a result of poor design the manufacturer should warrantee that part, and any repairs that are necessary because of that design flaw.
Changes and Upgrades.
Research and developement should be done before the engines get into the hands of the modelers. Some of us don't mind testing new products but most of us don't want to be the developement teams with our multi $$$ airplanes.
David Reid
BTW what other than the bearings wears out?
05-10-2002, 11:58 AM
#36
Member
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Covington, La
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ram reliability
What's with all the bashing with RAM. I've been into jet for 2 1/2 years. I went to jet events and watched to see which engines were the most reliable. At that time I did see many RAMs having bearing problems, so my decision was to go with an AMT Pegasus. I currently have 75 flights on my CAI Raptor and the engine has over 100 runs on it. The 25+ runs were with CAI in their tronning program on how to start/run/and shut down the engine properly.
One important factor with the success I have had is that I started out using K-1 kerosene and Shell Turbine oil 500. I continue to use this combination. I have heard that some have switched oil and had problems. I do not have any testing documentation to confirm that changing oil would cause any problems.
Just wanted to pass on my experience with AMT. I highly recommend their engines. Yes, I do use compressed air for starting and not auto start. I figure, in case of a tail pipe fire, the compressed air will help blow the burling kero out the back. Haven't had a tail pipe fire yet, keeping my fingers crossed....
One important factor with the success I have had is that I started out using K-1 kerosene and Shell Turbine oil 500. I continue to use this combination. I have heard that some have switched oil and had problems. I do not have any testing documentation to confirm that changing oil would cause any problems.
Just wanted to pass on my experience with AMT. I highly recommend their engines. Yes, I do use compressed air for starting and not auto start. I figure, in case of a tail pipe fire, the compressed air will help blow the burling kero out the back. Haven't had a tail pipe fire yet, keeping my fingers crossed....
05-10-2002, 01:01 PM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RAM Turbine Problems
>BTW what other than the bearings wears out? <
# combustion chamber *
# high stressed rotating turbine wheel, material fatigue
# electric starter components (o-ring, starter motor)
*) exept you have a heavy engine and do not run it at its limits (so you could use a EDF either
)
mec
# combustion chamber *
# high stressed rotating turbine wheel, material fatigue
# electric starter components (o-ring, starter motor)
*) exept you have a heavy engine and do not run it at its limits (so you could use a EDF either
)mec
05-10-2002, 02:27 PM
#38
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Rochester,
NY
Posts: 1,506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RAM Turbine Problems
The term “0 hours” is new to me as im sure it is to others. Is it conceivable that we could define “0 {insert correct words here} service” so that all the manufactures and service centers have a uniform understanding of what we are looking for when the time comes to return our turbines to the shop for checkups and desire this type of service. Ken
05-10-2002, 02:54 PM
#39
RAM Turbine Problems
The term "0 time" come from full size aircraft. The only REALLY zero time engine is brand new, however, full size aircraft engines and props are guaged on their "time before overhaul". If you look at used (full scale) airplanes that's is what the numbers mean. "TTSN" is total time since new. "TBO" is time before overhaul, "SMO" is since major overhaul. Depending on the overhaul, the engine is considered zeroed. It would be better if an A&P explained this but there are certain parts that don't wear out or wear out so slowly that it doesn't matter. When an engine (or Prop) is zero timed, or just out of overhaul, it's considered almost as good as new.
It would be great if the model turbine manufaturers would adopt the full-scale terminology. I would not hesitate to buy a Jetcat P-80 45SN, 0SMO, especially if I got a deal.
Bob
It would be great if the model turbine manufaturers would adopt the full-scale terminology. I would not hesitate to buy a Jetcat P-80 45SN, 0SMO, especially if I got a deal.
Bob
05-10-2002, 04:26 PM
#41
Still Fly Mine
I think most of the problem was that we all got used to Rei's way of fixing stuff for us. Most of the time a lot of US would get repairs or fixes for free.
Now before you start, I AM NOT A RAM REP, I used to be, but have not been for at least 6 MONTHS or more and in my time I seen people force the power plugs in backwards, pull the leads apart by pulling the cables and not the connectors therefore burning their battery, take the engine apart and then say it was out of balance, when they could not put it back together right, and many other dumb things.
, sometimes we just need to come back to earth a bit!!!!!!!!!!
Turbulence (NOT A REP)
Flak Jacket on, Helmet on, Bunker ready.
Also out of missiles, out of Bullets, you know what will follow
Now before you start, I AM NOT A RAM REP, I used to be, but have not been for at least 6 MONTHS or more and in my time I seen people force the power plugs in backwards, pull the leads apart by pulling the cables and not the connectors therefore burning their battery, take the engine apart and then say it was out of balance, when they could not put it back together right, and many other dumb things.
, sometimes we just need to come back to earth a bit!!!!!!!!!!
Turbulence (NOT A REP)
Flak Jacket on, Helmet on, Bunker ready.
Also out of missiles, out of Bullets, you know what will follow
05-10-2002, 04:49 PM
#42
RAM Turbine Problems
Hmmmmmm.........its a nice day up here in British Columbaia Canada. I think I am going to shut off the computer and go fly my RAM 500 powered BobCat and JetCat P80 powered Rafale.
Have a nice day!
Have a nice day!
05-10-2002, 07:25 PM
#43
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Oxford, MS
Posts: 3,241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RAM Turbine Problems
Ralph,
I felt I had to respond to one comment of yours and just straighten the story out a little bit.
[QUOTE]I think most of the problem was that we all got used to Rei's way of fixing stuff for us. Most of the time a lot of US would get repairs or fixes for free. I know of a great Jet modeler who wanted an Upgrade on his Air Start 750 at Superman Last year so they took a Brand New RAM 1000 apart and stuffed it on his plane, not only did they give him all the stuff, but RAM personnel spend the whole day stuffing the engine into the plane. When the fuel pump later got clogged and he had to purchase a new one he had a temper problem and slammed RAM.[/ QUOTE]
I think you may be talking about Vernon Montgomery's F-4 here. Let's talk about this for a minute to give some folks the whole picture. Vernon had a 1000 airstart in it (actually he had quite a few they kept blowing up) he had a compressor wheel come apart mid June and sent the engine in for repairs. It came back and was installed in his airplane before we went to Michigan Jets. We were starting the engine for the first run since it got back from RAM for repairs. The engine did not even finish ramping up before it came to an abrupt stop. I took the airstart 1000 out of my Bandit and put my spare 750 in my Bandit. He sent the engine in for repairs. He also around this same time got back his 750 from RAM, this was the one that caught on fire mid air and burned his Bandit up. (The fuel fittings in the front of the engine had worked their way loose, no locktite, unfortunate but it happens.) I put this 750 on his Bobcat and we took that to Superman. On the first run up as it was ramping up it belched flames and almost burned the airplane up. Scratch another engine fresh back from the factory. He has still not yet installed the 1000 in his Phantom so we install it on the Bobcat. On the 5th start we get the same thing, we had also noticed a slight vibration in the previous starts and runups and were told that it was ok. I fueled the airplane myself each time so I KNOW that the valve was shut and the engine was not full of fuel, so rule out flooded engine wet start. We took that engine off and installed my engine that was in the Phantom, no problems. Rei offers to Vernon a new Autostart 1000 for the Phantom. Vernon is happy with his airstart for the most part and does not want to change. Rei offers to have Orlando install the whole system and Rei assures him that the autostart engine (X series) is fine and his airplane will be fine. I don't remember any problmes with the fuel pump even though I DO remember the ECU having to have the parameters changed quite a bit before it would ever start. I also do NOT remember Vernon ever getting mad or even slamming RAM. BTW he is still flying RAM engines and if you are really interested......I can tell you of the problems he is STILL having with them.
I also think a lot of both Rei, and Albert and have not been very vocal about the RAM problems that the Mississippi Gang has had but this is just the tip of the iceburg.
David Reid
No Flak jacket needed here cause I'm stating the facts.
I felt I had to respond to one comment of yours and just straighten the story out a little bit.
[QUOTE]I think most of the problem was that we all got used to Rei's way of fixing stuff for us. Most of the time a lot of US would get repairs or fixes for free. I know of a great Jet modeler who wanted an Upgrade on his Air Start 750 at Superman Last year so they took a Brand New RAM 1000 apart and stuffed it on his plane, not only did they give him all the stuff, but RAM personnel spend the whole day stuffing the engine into the plane. When the fuel pump later got clogged and he had to purchase a new one he had a temper problem and slammed RAM.[/ QUOTE]
I think you may be talking about Vernon Montgomery's F-4 here. Let's talk about this for a minute to give some folks the whole picture. Vernon had a 1000 airstart in it (actually he had quite a few they kept blowing up) he had a compressor wheel come apart mid June and sent the engine in for repairs. It came back and was installed in his airplane before we went to Michigan Jets. We were starting the engine for the first run since it got back from RAM for repairs. The engine did not even finish ramping up before it came to an abrupt stop. I took the airstart 1000 out of my Bandit and put my spare 750 in my Bandit. He sent the engine in for repairs. He also around this same time got back his 750 from RAM, this was the one that caught on fire mid air and burned his Bandit up. (The fuel fittings in the front of the engine had worked their way loose, no locktite, unfortunate but it happens.) I put this 750 on his Bobcat and we took that to Superman. On the first run up as it was ramping up it belched flames and almost burned the airplane up. Scratch another engine fresh back from the factory. He has still not yet installed the 1000 in his Phantom so we install it on the Bobcat. On the 5th start we get the same thing, we had also noticed a slight vibration in the previous starts and runups and were told that it was ok. I fueled the airplane myself each time so I KNOW that the valve was shut and the engine was not full of fuel, so rule out flooded engine wet start. We took that engine off and installed my engine that was in the Phantom, no problems. Rei offers to Vernon a new Autostart 1000 for the Phantom. Vernon is happy with his airstart for the most part and does not want to change. Rei offers to have Orlando install the whole system and Rei assures him that the autostart engine (X series) is fine and his airplane will be fine. I don't remember any problmes with the fuel pump even though I DO remember the ECU having to have the parameters changed quite a bit before it would ever start. I also do NOT remember Vernon ever getting mad or even slamming RAM. BTW he is still flying RAM engines and if you are really interested......I can tell you of the problems he is STILL having with them.
I also think a lot of both Rei, and Albert and have not been very vocal about the RAM problems that the Mississippi Gang has had but this is just the tip of the iceburg.
David Reid
No Flak jacket needed here cause I'm stating the facts.
05-10-2002, 09:05 PM
#44
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: kenilworth , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 2,369
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Juast a few more points.....
Ive just remembered a couple of things that were told to me by the guys at RAM which are not true. I was told the turbine wheel in the 500 is RAMs own design turbine wheel, this is a LIE, it is a wren turbine wheel. Before I purchased my engine I phoned RAM to check it was a "X" series engine and was told it was, it is not another lie. But I suppose they have got my money now so there B.S paid off in the end.. or did it? 6000 veiws on this thread can`t have helped them, what a shame.
jason
jason
05-10-2002, 09:26 PM
#45
RAM Turbine Problems
Gordon,
Well put. Your posts in this thread have been very good.
No matter who makes your turbine, or what they write in their warranty cards, if they're sold in the United States, then their sale is under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Uniform Trade Act. There is a section in that law that states simply that if, due to defect, a product cannot be used for the purpose for which it was sold, then the purchaser is entitled to a return/refund. That supercedes any shop or manufacturer's policy or statement on their receipt or warrany card, even in the case of electric or electronic items or components. Nobody should have to pay for an upgrade to fix a problem that's in the design, if the problem means you can't do with the engine what you bought it for. Maybe somebody will give the seller the 'option' to fix it, free, or give back the money the buyer spent on it.
That's not to say that the user can't screw up an engine, but when manufacturer admits that there is a flaw, shouldn't that be the end of the 'cost to fix' discussion?
Well put. Your posts in this thread have been very good.
No matter who makes your turbine, or what they write in their warranty cards, if they're sold in the United States, then their sale is under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Uniform Trade Act. There is a section in that law that states simply that if, due to defect, a product cannot be used for the purpose for which it was sold, then the purchaser is entitled to a return/refund. That supercedes any shop or manufacturer's policy or statement on their receipt or warrany card, even in the case of electric or electronic items or components. Nobody should have to pay for an upgrade to fix a problem that's in the design, if the problem means you can't do with the engine what you bought it for. Maybe somebody will give the seller the 'option' to fix it, free, or give back the money the buyer spent on it.
That's not to say that the user can't screw up an engine, but when manufacturer admits that there is a flaw, shouldn't that be the end of the 'cost to fix' discussion?
05-10-2002, 09:54 PM
#46
Ram problems
Hi all , a little histery first.
Bought my Ram 500 from BVM at Toledo 2001.
Sat on the shelf till I bought the bobcat in the fall of 2001.
Built the bobcat over the winter.
Started the 500 in the fall ,2 runs on the bench, ran great.
Two more runs at the flying feild on the bench to show off.
Installed the 500 in the bobcat and 4 hours later discovered the batteries supplied by ram are to small , so I installed 1200 SCR car batteries and all was fine, it started right up.
Took the bobcat to the feild to range check and start up only to find out the starter craped out.
With less than a hour run time on the engine Ram tells me it"s going to cost me $500 to upgrade to a
New starter
New ECU
New battery
I thought turbines where more dependable than ducted fans
Thanks Rcpete
Bought my Ram 500 from BVM at Toledo 2001.
Sat on the shelf till I bought the bobcat in the fall of 2001.
Built the bobcat over the winter.
Started the 500 in the fall ,2 runs on the bench, ran great.
Two more runs at the flying feild on the bench to show off.
Installed the 500 in the bobcat and 4 hours later discovered the batteries supplied by ram are to small , so I installed 1200 SCR car batteries and all was fine, it started right up.
Took the bobcat to the feild to range check and start up only to find out the starter craped out.
With less than a hour run time on the engine Ram tells me it"s going to cost me $500 to upgrade to a
New starter
New ECU
New battery
I thought turbines where more dependable than ducted fans
Thanks Rcpete
05-10-2002, 10:03 PM
#48
My Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Tomball,
TX
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ram 500
And to think, i WAS VERY INTERESTED IN A RAM 500! i had some email conversations with a local rep and had even got the pricing. Just wasn't all that sure. NOW I AM SURE THAT IT WILL NOT BE A RAM.
maybe my loss, but after this thread i am willing to take my chances on another manufacturer.
maybe my loss, but after this thread i am willing to take my chances on another manufacturer.
05-10-2002, 10:10 PM
#49
Member
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RAM Turbine Problems
Hi everyone,
Let me throw my 2 cents worth in here. I own five RAM turbines of all shapes and sizes, air, electric, remote start and X series, so I am pretty familiar with their products. Reading through the various posts one should appreciate the differences that exist among different turbines. Air start turbines cannot be compared in complexity to the remote start versions. Simply stated, the remote start process requires vastly more installed equipment which from time to time can malfunction. I respect the opinions of the members posting responses here but to state that the old starter is a design flaw is incorrect. The new starter is just an improvement over the previous design. I have two turbines that utilize the "old style" starter and they work well with no problems so far with 75 plus flights. The new starter allows the end user to replace the internal components which really cuts down on the cost of maintenance. My personal feeling is that if you upgrade your starter to the new one and you purchased you turbine within the last 12 months, you should at least be given a discount on the new system. Before we become too judgmental, I replaced my retracts on a BVM Mig 15 to the new ones produced and paid full price for the new set. How much do you guys think I would have to pay to replace the nose gear unit on my Bandit (old style) to the new single piece one?????? Anyone want to say FULL price..
My best advice is to anyone looking to get into turbines is to learn and understand how turbines operate. If you already own one learn it inside and out. The better educated you are the more successfully you will be. I agree with Gordon, I would like to see several manufacturer stay in the market, this will keep them on their toes.
GeorgeR.
Ps, I don't know of any other 500 size turbines flying at the moment, but I am sure when they do they will have their share of teething problems.
Let me throw my 2 cents worth in here. I own five RAM turbines of all shapes and sizes, air, electric, remote start and X series, so I am pretty familiar with their products. Reading through the various posts one should appreciate the differences that exist among different turbines. Air start turbines cannot be compared in complexity to the remote start versions. Simply stated, the remote start process requires vastly more installed equipment which from time to time can malfunction. I respect the opinions of the members posting responses here but to state that the old starter is a design flaw is incorrect. The new starter is just an improvement over the previous design. I have two turbines that utilize the "old style" starter and they work well with no problems so far with 75 plus flights. The new starter allows the end user to replace the internal components which really cuts down on the cost of maintenance. My personal feeling is that if you upgrade your starter to the new one and you purchased you turbine within the last 12 months, you should at least be given a discount on the new system. Before we become too judgmental, I replaced my retracts on a BVM Mig 15 to the new ones produced and paid full price for the new set. How much do you guys think I would have to pay to replace the nose gear unit on my Bandit (old style) to the new single piece one?????? Anyone want to say FULL price..
My best advice is to anyone looking to get into turbines is to learn and understand how turbines operate. If you already own one learn it inside and out. The better educated you are the more successfully you will be. I agree with Gordon, I would like to see several manufacturer stay in the market, this will keep them on their toes.
GeorgeR.
Ps, I don't know of any other 500 size turbines flying at the moment, but I am sure when they do they will have their share of teething problems.
