Brian B

My Feedback: (5)

I thought about this today after yet another moment of terror while flying my jet. My beloved Avonds Rafale was turning on final approach when I saw that it was sinking towards the ground instead of heading toward the field. Worse yet, it was behind a stand of pretty tall trees. Thanks to the late spring here in Minnesota, there were no leaves on the trees, so I could see the plane slowly falling out of the sky.

The pilot (me) had committed the usually fatal mistake with a delta wing plane: not keeping the speed up in a turn. I applied full power and full up and for a few seconds just watched and waited for whatever would happen. All I could do was keep the wings level and hope as the little RAM 500 spooled up to full RPM and slowly pushed the Rafale higher: would it clear the trees? Yes! It just mushed over the tops, and then down to a safe landing. Landing a jet with shaking hands is not an easy thing.

This experience got me thinking back to all the jet flights I have had in the last 5 years. And I can't think of one of them where I really felt relaxed. The act of putting several thousand dollars of airplane into the air at 150 or 200 mph just does not seem to lead to a feeling of serenity and peace. More like constant anxiety with moments of sheer terror. I have never crashed a jet, but have come very close a bunch of times. I think that luck has been with me, since there are times when dumb mistakes have come out OK. But I know that can't last, so every time I take off, it is shaky knees time.

Is it the same with you guys? Does the anxiety and apprehension ever go away? I love this hobby and am not about to quit flying jets, but it would sure be nice not to be afraid every time I take off.

Ron Stahl

My Feedback: (12)

Brian, Please takes this in the light that I am writing it. Turbine powered airplanes might not be right for you at this time. While all of us get that pre first flight gitters, you should not be having these kinds of worries and fears every time you fly your jet. Personal confidence as well as pilot skills are nessacary for those fears to go away. Since you and I have never met I don't know of your skills or flying history, only you do and the guys who signed you off to have the waiver. One of the things I look for when we are training a pilot for turbine flying is the abilitiy to keep calm when things go wrong; you are right your luck will run out one day like it will for all of us. If the possibility of loss of your model is always in your mind you will not enjoy this wonderful hobby no matter what you are flying. I take this from a old BVM Ad for the F-4 before turbines existed " If the thought of your $10,000 model plane rolling down the runway about to take off with the possibilty of not coming back is in the back of your mind, this plane is not for you. Do not read further". I comend you for putting this out for us to see. You got yourself in trouble, but also got it out and back. So that should not only give you a scare but also build your confidence that you can see a possible crash and do the right thing to save the plane. You at least did not panic and stand there and watch it go in. Hopefully for you the fears will subside and you will enjoy this wonderful aspect of the hobby.

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

Ron,

I have to respectfully disagree! The thought of my new F-4 hurling down the runway had me nervous but was it still for me? You bet! The first flight of every weekend at every new field SHOULD be a little nerve racking. Why else do we do it? The thrill of flying an RC jet is something that can not be duplicated anywhere else, or by anything else. I love the nervous tension that comes just at the begining of every flight, there is nothing quite like it. But to tell a guy that just because he is nervous before or during a flight he does not need to fly or does not need a waiver.....come on?


David Reid

Ron Stahl

My Feedback: (12)

Dave you miss understand my point. This is the problem with the internet. My point is that will we all enjoy that excitement, worring about the money and being so nervious that you don't enjoy it was my point that for right now some guys are over their heads with these planes. I never said that he shouldn't fly or shouldn't have a waiver so I don't know how you got that. What I am saying is that we as pilots should not be in the panic mode during every flight. Hope this is taken in the light I am writing it.

tp777fo

My Feedback: (28)

I've got a Avonds Rafale just about ready to fly. I'm having lots of problems with my 500. Now the gas solenoid wont close and the gas just blows from the tank to the motor. How does this thing fly? Any tips for the Rafale. I had a DF powered one and loved it.

Tom

I-NAV

My Feedback: (3)

Brian,
You're normal. Many great sticks have shaky knees. It's part of the fun and keeps you sharp. If it wasn't for the jet rush- I'd stick to park flyers. As for the money, it's like going to Vegas every time you fly..

Kevin_W

My Feedback: (1)

Brain,
Unless you are so nervous that it is affecting your piloting skills I would not worry too much. It took about 30-35 flights on my first interceptor before I was finally able to feel somewhat relaxed while flying it. I still tend to shake a little a little during the first flight or two after not being able to fly for a more than a week, and the first flight at a new field it is almost a guaranteed that my fingers will be a little shaky.
The key is to get lots of practice. In the mid 90's the club I belonged to had a wonderful jet friendly field and I was able to put in 5 or more jet flights every weekend and I got really comfortable with them. In 97 we lost that field and my weekend flying went way down, and it really showed in my flying skills. I was nervous almost every flight, my knees and fingers were shaking and as a result I had to be very careful not to do any maneuvers that might get me into trouble. Now that I once again have a field to fly at close to home I am getting more weekend flights in and I am feeling much more comfortable with my jets.
Another thing that helps me is to have a routine (mental checklist if you will) for preparing the plane for flight and startup. As long as I keep to my routine I know that the plane is completely ready for flight and I don't have to worry about mechanical failures. If anything "out of the ordinary" happens then I fix it and start over just to be sure that I don't forget anything. A written checklist would be even better but I know that I would either loose or forget to bring it so I find it easier to just stick to a routine. Having a good caller is also very helpful. I have a couple of good friends who I fly with who are my normal callers, they know what information I need while flying and what I don't need to be bothered with. They can also tell when I am nervous and will keep other's at the flight line from bothering me with silly questions or comments if it is distracting me from my piloting duties. Having a trusted caller who you can communicate with and who can communicate with you is very helpful for your nerves.
Just don't try any maneuvers that are you are not comfortable with until you have mastered them on a less expensive prop plane and you will be fine.

AirRayInc

My Feedback: (7)

Over 15 years of flying, and I do get the nerves and anxieties rolling from time to time. But admittedly I feed off of it, the more nervous I am, the more I know I will be on my A game. Flying the powered planes gives you a couple of outs so to speak, I also fly some really mean Power Slope Scale gliders, from a 210 foot sheer cliff. There is no aborting the take off, there is usually one shot at the landing once you commit to my particular flying spot here at Pt Fermin in San Pedro CA. The pacific ocean will gobble up your plane if you find flying out of the lift too long your cup of tea, the cliff line will reach up and smack you down due to the turbulances associated with the different gullies, bolders and vegetation, and lastly, you fellow "friends" and co-flyers, will always coax you into a manuever that send your high speed pride, nose over tail, hitting every nasty bump from top to bottom.
The speed aspect of the turbines, all turns relative after a couple of initiation hops. I also say, being nervous is aok, gives a bit of satisfaction, other wise we would all stick to high wing, flat bottom under powered trainers, eh!?

Ray

SDCrashmaster

I have to agree with Ray. Without the rush, what's the point. Show me a thrill seeker who isn't nervous and I'll show you one boring individual. One of the best jet pilots I know of, and, anyone on the west coast will agree, is Jason Sommes. Now Jasons' thumbs are smooth as silk. But, the whole time he's flying, his leg is twitchin'. That's just his way of subconsciously releasing any tension. And believe me, if Jason has a little tension while flying, its aok for most of the rest of us to have a lot.

weasel33

Hi Brian
I fly an Aviation Design large Rafale with a 27lb thrust AMT Pegasus in it for a friend who builds but can`t fly and i still get the shakes and ive been into jets now for 5 years i also have an Avonds F15 with a Mercury hp in it but i dont know wether its the design or what but i find that the Rafale bleeds off speed very
rapidly once the nose is up but the F15 is ok but if you worry about the cost get out but if you enjoy the rush stay with it
it only gets better

Brian
England

guntop

Hey brian,
I noticed that you were from Lakeville MN. I get up around. there quite often as my inlaws are from Mankato MN. Are there in Jet events in the cities? Let me know as i would like to attend one.
As far as your post!!!!
Think of it this way, even though you have shakey knees on the ground, think of the poor pilot in your plane!!!!! I don't think you should stop the jets, i think you already have confidence but just don't know it yet. You saved your plane the other day, right?!
dave
Sioux Falls SD

PR38

I see Ron's point, but I wouldn't want someone telling me I shouldn't fly my jet.
I say, stick with it, and you will learn to keep the power on in the turns, to avoid getting too slow, etc... The nervous mistakes will make an impression on you and hopefully you won't make them again. I think confidence will come, and when it does maybe you can enjoy it.
As a side note, I sometimes joke about dorking my pride into the ground. It helps me deal with it when it actually does happen. Be prepared for it, because more than likely, it will happen.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

1.) No it never goes away.
2.) Your plane is in one piece, enjoy the great story you have now!
3.) The problems will come if you do not learn from it. Some people I know that suffer the most in this sport do not learn, and repeat the same mistakes.

BTW Shaun, congrats I heard your F-16 flew well!

Dustflyer

My Feedback: (13)

Brian B,

You are a better pilot than you think you are! The worst thing you can do is get too relaxed with these birds, to let them take you somewhere your brain hasn't been five seconds earlier.

You haven't crashed a model jet yet, so don't underestimate your skills. It is perfectly normal to have some jitters while you fly, especially on approach and landing. It is far more difficult to land one of these little buggers than it is to land a real one. You have no airspeed indicator, no AOA indicator, no glide slope, no VASI, not even a decent frame of reference.

Every time I've tried to relax landing my HotSpot it's been a lousy approach, landing or both. I have to be way ahead of the thing, brain going a million miles a minute on approach because I fly out of a short grass field that requires a tight turning final that has to be right on the numbers every time or I have to go around.

Don't let the great flyers in this game fool you, they may look cool and talk cool but they are either working very hard to get a good landing or have made so many of them (ie. practiced more and harder than you and me!) that they don't have to think about it any more.

You're doing great! Just remember, keep thinking, don't relax, don't give up on the airplane! Keep practicing! Before you know it you'll be the ace of the base!

Brian B

My Feedback: (5)

Sometimes the gas solenoid will stick. Rapping on it with a screwdriver might work. Or maybe it is shot and needs replacement.

My Rafale was converted from OS 91 power using the Avonds conversion kit for RAM 500. In ducted fan form, it seemed a good deal tamer, maybe because it was a bit lighter. In turbine form, it flies well if you set it up right. It does go faster with a turbine, but not a whole lot. I think the inlets are really draggy and make the top speed less that it could be. Not that I am complaining: it goes fast enough.

Make sure the aileron deflection is no more than 1/4" up and down, since it is extremely sensitive in roll.

Elevator should be about 5/8" or maybe even 3/4" up and down, since it is not so sensitive in pitch.

These settings are just about what Avonds recommends. A little expo on aileron may help too. I say "aileron" and "elevator" when of course the plane has elevons.

Good luck with yours. It is a very pretty plane and looks great in the air. And from reading my original post, you know to keep the power up in the turns. It slows down amazingly fast in a turn.

Brian B

My Feedback: (5)

Unfortunately there are no jet events in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. The closest one is the Jets Over Arrowhead event in Rice Lake Wisconsin, coming up on June 8/9. All the Twin Cities jet pilots will be there. The closest thing to a jet event here is that most of us fly jets at Tri Valley RC (located in Rosemount) on weekends. You can usually count on at least a few of us flying jets then.

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

Many Moons ago I used to Drag race, I loved the "Rush " I got going through the traps at the end of the 1/4 mile.

I also love the "Rush" I get from flying my jets, As someone else stated, "If I don't get a rush, I might as well be flying parkflyers."

Altho parkflyers are a lot o' fun too

B58

My Feedback: (43)

I flew full scale helicopter drones for over 10 years as a contract pilot for the U.S. Army. I figure that is close to the RC Jet. I also fly RC, and have for 32 years. I still get nervous while flying one of my planes. When you put a GS P-51 up with $1000 in it, it does get intense. I was even more nervous when flying a 1/2 million dollar drone, even if it was not my money. But when you do well, and the mission is over, man!! That is a good feeling. I guess you could sit and watch, but that's no fun!

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

Hmmmmmm!!!!

1Eye

My Feedback: (2)

Ron Stahl replied ...
Brian, Please takes this in the light that I am writing it. Turbine powered airplanes might not be right for you at this time.
>>>

Not sure what "light" was intended but the good news is that a fellow had the courage to admit he was a little apprehensive flying his jets. More of the good news was that this same fellow had the skills/reflex to get himself out of a pretty nasty box!! To suggest "turbine powered airplanes might not be right for you" is a bit of a stretch.

In a previous life I have all but had the sh*t scared out of me in certain situations and I was ALWAYS apprehensive going in - but it didn't faze me, rather it tempered my own resolve and further underscored the value of good training/reflexive response to fall back on when the turds hit the fan. The rush afterwards was awesome

So, in response to the first post: saddle up, keep FLYING those jets!

Mike

AirRayInc

My Feedback: (7)

Tell me please I am not the only one touched here, over twenty responses and only a hint of negativity.......and we got some pretty strong minded pilots in this house.
Kudos to Brian for saying what alot of us would not even mention if there were no witnesses to the event, and even then....its always a atmospheric reason for the event, radio related situation, or airplane structural failure.

Way to go guys, this thread has restored my faith.

Ray

Ron Stahl

My Feedback: (12)

I'm sorry that everyone is getting the wrong idea of my post about Brians nerviousness. I agree that we all do this hobby for the rush but read his post carefully. He is expressing as I read it terror for him while flying his plane, those are his words not mine. I was just expressing some thought on the idea that he might need some help to build his confidence, he got behind on the plane and did the right things to save it. I guess I am differant than the rest of you; since I don't get that nervious when I flying that the words terror come to mind. Brain keep up the flying I never meant that you should stop. Hope the nerves calm down

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

Guys,

This is a good thread, I have had my share of jet crashes and failures along the way and after hundreds of turbine flights I still take a deep breath before take off and get a huge rush when the bird sets down successfully and taxies back, at my club, a new field or at a jet rally. The accomplishment "factor" always out weighs the negatives and keeps me going even after some setbacks. You could argue if the turbine / jet hobby is "fun", it may not be. Its something like a roller coaster ride, your hyped up to get on but when its about to drop you 100ft there is something in your head saying " why am I on this ride!!" Then your stopped and saying "lets do it again!!"

Vin...

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

Vin,

You hit the nail on the head. I have been there too, I lost my Phantom last fall, and have dorked up a couple of others on landings, or whatever. It happens to all of us sooner or later. Everyone has to know their limitations. The only way to really know your limitations is to exceed them once or twice. Sometimes that also serves to raise the bar a notch or two.

Sorry Ron but what I read into your post was this....."If you get nervous don't fly jets" and that is not the way I see it. If you don't get nervous flying these airplanes .......well you ain't pushing the envelope.

Brian keep it up....the old wide world of sports saying comes to mind.......The Thrill of Victory and the Agony of defeat!

DR

six shooter

Well, I' admit that I get my jollies out of the terror that I get when I fly my jets. Just the other day my knees were wobbling so much, I thought it was rudder flutter. That was hard to understand since I didn't have a rudder .

From the tone of Ron's response to Brian, it sounds like he has a axle to grin. Don't know what would cause this. Would Ron have said the same thing if it was Woketman that made the posting?