looking for some information on brake systems for model aircraft, i see that BVM has a patent on a brake system in reading it i can't seam to understand what is actually patented can anyone shed some light on this also is BVM the first to make such a device?

Dennis

He's not the first to make them but he has the patent.

I believe Ultra Precision had the first proportional brake valve.

Dennis,
what do you want to know about model brake systems? Models primarily use Pneumatic brakes. The air is carried in a pressure vessel..usually 80-100psi that is hooked up to a brake valve of some sort.

There are mechanical ones like the BVM and UP6 brake valve that requires a servo to actuate them and are proportional. You have simple on/off brake valves that are also mechanical but are usually a button valve. All the mechanical valves are actuated by a servo of some sort.

Then you have the electronic brake valves which are solenoids that either are on/off or proportional by either just opening or closing the solenoid for on/off operation or by pulsing the solenoid to provide proportional braking. The difference between the electronic brake valves and mechanical ones are that their is no servo needed. They plug directly into your receiver.

They all have their downsides as well. Mechanical brake valves can leak over time as their o-rings get worn and the BVM unit has to be setup very precisely or else it will leak air. Their is also the need for a servo on the mechanical valves. The two downsides to the electronic brake valve are that in proportional mode the valve bleeds off air unless it is full on or full off and you can not use it as a parking brake like you can with the mechanical valves.


If I have left something out, I am sure someone will fill in what I forgot.

patrick.

There are at least two patents involved in the entire BVM brake system. The patent covering the brake in the wheel is held by Violett. You can go to the US patent office web site and see what it covers (www.uspto.gov), just look for patents under the name Violett, there are several. A couple of other companies have a license from Violett to use the patent, which is why there are other brakes that look very similar.

The control regulator (Smooth Stop) is covered under a different patent that I hold (Steven Ellzey). BVM has a license to use that patent. You can look that one up also, but the patent pretty much covers the entire internals of the device. The internals are vastly different from any other pressure regulator out there.

Steven

What i am trying to understand is if there are other examples of this type break system how can someone patent it, i have looked at the patent and there it list former examples of the system so again how can someone get a patent on something that has existed prior to the application the smooth stop is a separate issue and i fully understand it as this type of device had not been made prior to the application for patent.
what has BVM patented the O'ring the whole brake system did he get permission to from prior patent hold's of this type device or pay a royalty to them for this purpose.

Dennis

Hi Dennis

All Patents list prior art. You find the closest possible matches and show why they are different. The patent office then looks over your prior art and sees if they can find something else that they think is closer, then challenge you to prove them wrong, it is called an office action. The Low Operating Force Pressure Regulator (Smooth Stop) had one office action. The Patent Examiner in one case cited an Australian patent on a beer keg tapping device. The Patent Office agreed with the explanation of why that was not a valid comparison. So, many other patents are listed to show the unique properties of the new patent. By the way, patent attorneys like to see one office action, it means they claimed about as much as they can get away with. Another patent I have though my employer went through with no office actions; it bugged them.

Steven

Lack of a good prior art search is a major reasons patent applications are denied int he first place.

The trick of a patent is to get one that earns back at least what the patent application cost!! Not easy!

May someone can shed some light on this one. While cleaning up a storage cabinet, I noticed that I had still in the original unopened packages, some "o" ring, air actuated brakes that were produced by Sonictronic at least 20 yr's ago. The concept look's exactly the same as the BVM brakes. Did Hank, forget to apply for a paten, or what?

Larry Epifanio
SouthEast Model Products
Orlando, Fl

Hey Larry
Not heard from you in a while hows things, i have had guys say that BVM was not the original designer of the model aircraft break system if you have a design that shows he did not then how can bvm hold a patent for it can you provide a picture of the break system.

Dennis

What happened to their air regulators Larry? What about public domain on this issue of the brakes. I also heard a guy by the name Ron Sweeny, not sure of the spelling on the name, but he had built these brakes 15yrs. ago. Patent or no I think it will fall in the public domain. Once a product is out in the public for more than 6 months is it still able to get patented?



Forestt

Hi,
I am enclosing a link to a recent photo of a drum brake system which was used by one of the visiting italian jet team flying a large AIRWORLD version of the L-39.

This is just an add-on to the type of air brake systems quoted above.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfi...94/Lf95158.jpg

It is highly likely that this system is manufactured by someone in Europe. Unfortunately, I am not aware of the name of the manufacturer.

Regards

Reuben

Check this out........

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...et&RS=turbojet

Hey Guys it would seam there is a lot of talk about other individuals making a braking system even one manufactured for sale but in order to dispute a patent i am sure in court this would need proof provided pictures dates on product offering ETC.
With BVM patent does it apply to any type of brake with an expansion o'ring or tubing there is so much legal verbiage it's hard to decipher what is actually claimed any legal type's out there understand what is stated in the patent?

Dennis

Hey Dennis,

Why don't you give BVM a call. I'm quite certain Bob will make everything perfectly clear regarding the extent of his patent coverage. Who knows, maybe you could buy the brakes from BVM, have them anodized a pretty red color and then try to convince some newcomer that You designed them. Sales would blossom because you OBVIOUSLY improved the design greatly............Uh...but then you would have to actually ship the parts...Oh well, NEVER MIND

John

John
When you ordered the engine and contacted wren directly they gave you the same story no ecu's didn't they? and you still had to wait.
Get over it do business with who ever you want you never spent a dime with me so your statement makes no sense you never were charged for something you did not receive take your accusations some where else.

Dennis

No, actually, Dennis,

After I ordered the engine kit from you and after a month and a half of promises that “it will go out tomorrow� AND AFTER you charged my VISA, I cancelled that order and went directly to Wren Turbines. Wren delivered the kit to me two days before they said it would arrive from the U.K. with shipping charges that were less than you quoted me from California. And just to bring a few things to light, I find it difficult to “get over�. You told me that “Electronics are my forte� and that YOUR design ECU was BETTER than what was supplied by Wren. You then stated that you had run into problems because that chip suppliers had change the design of the chip set. This was why you couldn’t deliver the kit. It seems odd that GASPAR (who manufactures all the ECUs for you and Wren) has never mentioned such esign improvements or manufacturing problems. Additionally, when I was getting my engine certified, you tried to thwart that process. I’ve got more if you want to get “into it�

I find it curious, Dennis, that you as a Turbine Waiver holder have to come on RCU asking about “brake systems for model aircraft� Didn’t the model that you demonstrated your flight proficiency have brakes? And didn’t you display a working knowledge of that safety system? I also find it to be “cheesy� that a manufacturer comes on a public forum seeking legal advice regarding patent infringement on a patent that he trying to infringe upon.

I have no problem with NOT doing business with you and can just hope that others will come to a similar conclusion prior to having to “get over it�

John

WOW!!! This is getting good!

I have a close friend that is a patent and trademark attorney. In fact, I consulted with him extensively when I decided to do the old rcu website that I did.

His basic summary of our discussion was that someone would have easily look at what you've got and say, "wow, that's a xxxx product", when in fact, you were passing it off as your own.


Half the problem with having a patent, is that it really doesn't mean anything unless you have the funding to go out and defend the patent.

If I want to go make sure stops tomorrow and infringe the patent to do so, there is nothing stopping me. The police aren't going to show up at your door. In fact, you can go out and sell what you've made even though you are technically infringing the patent. Unless someone wants to spend the money to go out and stop you, you're likely gonna get away with it.

Sean

I meant smooth stop on the above post (I don't use BVM stuff, sorry about that) but you get the idea, smooth stop, bvm oring brakes, heck, a plasma tv. Whatever.

David, you didn't even instigate any of it.

Sounds to me like the person asking all the patent questions needs to talk to the patent office or a patent attorney to get the workings of a patent.

Well John
I know you have given your story at least you perception of how you perceived everything to anyone that would listen, but the truth is you did not receive any promises from me as to when i would ship a kit engine to you, also i went out of my way stripping down my own aircraft to give you an ECU to use until the new units arrived and sent you a new unit this after you gave your OK, i did charge your card but the next morning when i entered the shop and I checked my voice mail you had left a nasty message i did try and call and sent e-mails to you with no reply very courteous of you, at that moment I gave you an instant refund.
As to the ECU's Gaspar did change the ECU design right at the time you had placed an order for the auto start kit and i know you e-mailed wren because the answer was CC to me Sara said the very same thing to you they did not have any auto start ecu's as the UK is a little closer to Spain then the US it would stand to reason wren UK would receive a shipment before i did, also in the e-mail from Sara they stated they were happy with my representation of the product but i see you fail to mention this again it must be your perception.
Don't believe me Gaspar is on the forum ask him directly if there was a change in the design if only the world had to justify everything with you, with regard to the brake system again your perception rules the day how do you know what answer's i am looking for and why is it your business anyway.
Dennis

What I tried to find out if there was a company that had made a brake system prior to BVM and there are claims stated here on the forum to this fact but no proof of it to date.

Dennis

Dennis,

YADA,YADA,YADA....................Well that's your side of things............Hey, remember when you USED to deny that you charged my card?..............If you would like, I could scan and send you my cell phone bill depicting..oh... roughly two or three calls a week to you......for a month. For what? To discuss "the weather"? Maybe I could describe how you li.......lie...........Uh, misrepresented the facts to one of the RCU moderators to get a posting here removed which was subsequently reinstated when the TRUTH was told.............I can go on...............Oh, 'ya did you actually "make it to the shipper" with the kit and your personal ECU that you charged me for? I believe that when I canceled the order, you left a message on my voice mail explaining that you "didn't quite get it shipped yet.........so much drivel...such a small world..........Why did you Strip the ECU from your own aircraft if you had not made any delivery promises? This is a new one! I have to give you a "10" on creativity!

Oh, and I now see that GASPAR made the changes to the ECU..............this only took a year and a half for you to admit that the ECU was not your superior design!

And just one last point. If your representation of the products was so good, why did Jet Hangar Hobbies become Wren Turbines exclusive U.S. representative? You opened this can of worms , Dennis.

Ooops, one more point. The brake question is my business because you chose to make a post in a public forum requesting comments.

So long BF,

John

Now that I look back on all that has been said and done, I am very happy that the JDE 54 was never shipped and I had the opportunity to cancel my JDE 54 order before it was shipped and that Dennis didn't have the opportunity to ship the thing to me. Everything happens for a reason. I am very happy with my MW-54 and extremely happy with the customer service/support provided by Wren Turbines and Jet Hangar Hobbies.

I'll retract my initial suggestion in this thread. Dennis, I think you should buy a set of BVM wheels and brakes, copy them precisely, have thousands of parts made and let market forces work things out.

By the way, BF stands for BOTTOM FEEDER.

John