Where's the JF 50 Bee?????
07-14-2002, 09:14 PM
#1
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: kenilworth , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 2,369
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where's the JF 50 Bee?????
The JF50 Bee was due to be relised at the majorca jets. Did anyone see it? does this engine that is smaller, lighter, has more power and better fuel cosumption than the MW54 and RAM 500 actualy exist?
thanks
jason
thanks
jason
07-15-2002, 06:39 AM
#5
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: California
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hose Zone
Hi Vincent,
The place where the socks go is reffered to as the 'Hose Zone". People who have been there say there is a lot of socks, screwdrivers, keys etc. But lately a whole bunch of turbines arrived labeled. "NEW!" or "For Repair"
The place where the socks go is reffered to as the 'Hose Zone". People who have been there say there is a lot of socks, screwdrivers, keys etc. But lately a whole bunch of turbines arrived labeled. "NEW!" or "For Repair"
07-15-2002, 10:41 AM
#6
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
Where's the JF 50 Bee?????
Actually, I have all the missing socks. They are for a special project, don't ask about it, it's not finished yet. They are in a warehouse in Weehawken, New Jersey. I will return each and every sock when the project is through, I promise.
I think Simjet and Jesus Artes are taking the RAM 500 lesson pretty seriously. They want to make sure the stuff actually WORKS before selling it. That first batch of 500's, well...
I think Simjet and Jesus Artes are taking the RAM 500 lesson pretty seriously. They want to make sure the stuff actually WORKS before selling it. That first batch of 500's, well...
07-15-2002, 11:51 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Milton,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SimJet taking Time
Originally posted by EASYTIGER
I think Simjet and Jesus Artes are taking the RAM 500 lesson pretty seriously. They want to make sure the stuff actually WORKS before selling it. That first batch of 500's, well...
I think Simjet and Jesus Artes are taking the RAM 500 lesson pretty seriously. They want to make sure the stuff actually WORKS before selling it. That first batch of 500's, well...
You are correct. SimJet has taken more time to ensure that the new 700 is reliable and trouble free. The same goes fo the turbo-prop and heli engines as well. Some lessons have been learned and the changes from those lessons are being implemented.
Sincerely,
Ed
07-15-2002, 12:25 PM
#8
Visit
Easytiger,
I spent last week in Ct. There was some nice flying weather for sure there, I made it down to the city but not over to FBF. Now its back to the hell hole (Az.) I am beginning to feel that the small motors have some unique problems that will require more R+D. The smart move is to keep them off the market till all is resolved. I would sure like one of the small 700`s too.
Vin...
I spent last week in Ct. There was some nice flying weather for sure there, I made it down to the city but not over to FBF. Now its back to the hell hole (Az.) I am beginning to feel that the small motors have some unique problems that will require more R+D. The smart move is to keep them off the market till all is resolved. I would sure like one of the small 700`s too.
Vin...
07-15-2002, 01:54 PM
#9
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
Where's the JF 50 Bee?????
Sorry I missed you!
I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that the problems with the smaller engines are not so totally related to them actually being small...just the regular R&D stuff for any engine, I guess. Most of the KJ66 class engines, well, I suppose it's a lot easier, as there have been so many engines based around that design, they seem to be mostly variations on a theme.
I will definitely go for one of the new smaller ones, but I'll wait for the first batch to get out into the field and get debugged before buying. That's what I did with the RAM 500. I have other problems with my RAM 500x, but that's another story!
Normally, I love being the first kid on my block with the newest model airplane toy, and don't mind doing some guinea pig work, but with turbines, it's different. I just can't afford to be a $2200 guinea pig!
I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that the problems with the smaller engines are not so totally related to them actually being small...just the regular R&D stuff for any engine, I guess. Most of the KJ66 class engines, well, I suppose it's a lot easier, as there have been so many engines based around that design, they seem to be mostly variations on a theme.
I will definitely go for one of the new smaller ones, but I'll wait for the first batch to get out into the field and get debugged before buying. That's what I did with the RAM 500. I have other problems with my RAM 500x, but that's another story!
Normally, I love being the first kid on my block with the newest model airplane toy, and don't mind doing some guinea pig work, but with turbines, it's different. I just can't afford to be a $2200 guinea pig!
07-15-2002, 02:39 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: pacifica,
CA
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New products
As the distributor for the Wren Turbine's I feel it necessary to say that the turbo prop is available and JDE has AMA approval for both the Heli and Turbo prop interfaces.
I have run the turbo prop and seen the heli with the gear box arrangement flying in the UK the turbo prop is a finished product, the 44 will be in production shortly I ran the 44 personally and I must say I am amazed at the little engine in fact Mike and I mounted 2 of these engine’s on a test stand and ran them side by side for the first time in a twin configuration at the Westgate show in Telforde not more than a 2 weeks ago.
Dennis Fuente
JDEnterprises
Wren turbine's
JDenterprise.net
I have run the turbo prop and seen the heli with the gear box arrangement flying in the UK the turbo prop is a finished product, the 44 will be in production shortly I ran the 44 personally and I must say I am amazed at the little engine in fact Mike and I mounted 2 of these engine’s on a test stand and ran them side by side for the first time in a twin configuration at the Westgate show in Telforde not more than a 2 weeks ago.
Dennis Fuente
JDEnterprises
Wren turbine's
JDenterprise.net
07-15-2002, 03:07 PM
#11
My Feedback: (2)
Where's the JF 50 Bee?????
Originally posted by EASYTIGER
I think Simjet and Jesus Artes are taking the XXXXXXX lesson pretty seriously.
I think Simjet and Jesus Artes are taking the XXXXXXX lesson pretty seriously.
In our own operation, we have a bunch of customers still running the spun steel can on the TJT-3000. Its a good quality part, but no where near the current production. Thankfully they run fine and the upgrade is rather simple, but it requires an otherwise unnecessary return for servicing and 1-2 hours of my time...
Tom and I have discussed the dynamics of these smaller engines a few times. Basically, the smaller the combustion chamber gets the shorter the path of combusted gasses to the exhaust turbine, meaning it must be cooled much faster. Then there is the higher shaft RPM and balancing issue... The smaller an engine is, the harder it is to build. Over the long term I wouldn't be surprised to see the smaller engine prices increase relative to the larger variety. Granted some parts will be cheaper because smaller diameter Al roundstock is needed to manufacture a smaller diffuser, it costs almost the same to make the product and there really isn't any logical connection between price and thrust... Again, just a personal observation. I have very little control over pricing at TJT.
In our RCU manufacturer's forum there are a couple pictures of the Bee's at Mallorca. I know nothing more at this point in time...
Later,
Kelly
07-15-2002, 05:04 PM
#12
Where's the JF 50 Bee?????
Kelly
I agree with you completely on price vs thrust comparisons. As the turbine market has matured ( ie fewer turbine pricing wars ) manufacturers are realizing that to stay in business and offer the service that is necessary as part of jet modeling they must price their product very carefully. The manufacturer's kit cost for a small engine ( ie 54 mm vs 66 mm ) vs a larger is not significant so why bother?
A couple of reasons, there are modelers that want to fly smaller jets so the " smaller concept " is important. Yes, there is the argument that the 54 type might use as much fuel as a 66 turned down but once you have tried to cram a 66 engine in small airframe a couple of times you do appreciate the extra space offered by the smaller engine. There is also the " cute " factor. The MW design is also a very good one when compared to the 66. Its compact nature - all glove fit does lend itself to outstanding longevity. Granted they are much more finicky to tune but once set, seem to run and run. Its not uncommon to hear of MW designs running 250 - 300 cycles. Twins are also more likely to be considered with the smaller engine design.
A few observations noted: in the past 12 months manufacturers have set prices and in some cases have raised them. Some brands are extremely hard to come by due to supply and demand resulting in some modelers deciding to wait until the " next latest and greatest improvements are made ". The hype of owning and operating a jet engine has lessoned and the market has softened according to many manufacturers ( they actually have engines sitting on the shelf ). Many new turbine purchasers are now looking at the used market where a good low time engine can be purchased well below the $ 2K figure. A number of companies have seen these changes and may be carefully weighing whether to release a new product given the current market. Substantial capital investment is needed to launch a new engine and if the return is not there it could be a costly venture for the company.
Finally and most importantly, consumers have become very, very demanding of quality, ease of operation and reliability
in the engine they decide to purchase. It was not long ago when it was an entire choreographed event to get a microturbine started and modelers had to intimately understand their engines. Now we just move the throttle stick in a given sequence. If the engine does not immediately start there are modelers that don't seem to have a clue how to troubleshoot. Perhaps due to lack of proper ground school or just " scared of the engine technology ". Engines are easy to purchase but require some time to properly learn. Hence lies the next set of obstacles for manufacturers. Consumer expectations and complacency vs cutting edge technology. Some manufacturers are now seriously considering whether its worth the risk.
I agree with you completely on price vs thrust comparisons. As the turbine market has matured ( ie fewer turbine pricing wars ) manufacturers are realizing that to stay in business and offer the service that is necessary as part of jet modeling they must price their product very carefully. The manufacturer's kit cost for a small engine ( ie 54 mm vs 66 mm ) vs a larger is not significant so why bother?
A couple of reasons, there are modelers that want to fly smaller jets so the " smaller concept " is important. Yes, there is the argument that the 54 type might use as much fuel as a 66 turned down but once you have tried to cram a 66 engine in small airframe a couple of times you do appreciate the extra space offered by the smaller engine. There is also the " cute " factor. The MW design is also a very good one when compared to the 66. Its compact nature - all glove fit does lend itself to outstanding longevity. Granted they are much more finicky to tune but once set, seem to run and run. Its not uncommon to hear of MW designs running 250 - 300 cycles. Twins are also more likely to be considered with the smaller engine design.
A few observations noted: in the past 12 months manufacturers have set prices and in some cases have raised them. Some brands are extremely hard to come by due to supply and demand resulting in some modelers deciding to wait until the " next latest and greatest improvements are made ". The hype of owning and operating a jet engine has lessoned and the market has softened according to many manufacturers ( they actually have engines sitting on the shelf ). Many new turbine purchasers are now looking at the used market where a good low time engine can be purchased well below the $ 2K figure. A number of companies have seen these changes and may be carefully weighing whether to release a new product given the current market. Substantial capital investment is needed to launch a new engine and if the return is not there it could be a costly venture for the company.
Finally and most importantly, consumers have become very, very demanding of quality, ease of operation and reliability
in the engine they decide to purchase. It was not long ago when it was an entire choreographed event to get a microturbine started and modelers had to intimately understand their engines. Now we just move the throttle stick in a given sequence. If the engine does not immediately start there are modelers that don't seem to have a clue how to troubleshoot. Perhaps due to lack of proper ground school or just " scared of the engine technology ". Engines are easy to purchase but require some time to properly learn. Hence lies the next set of obstacles for manufacturers. Consumer expectations and complacency vs cutting edge technology. Some manufacturers are now seriously considering whether its worth the risk.
07-17-2002, 04:34 PM
#13
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: MexicoDF, MEXICO
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where's the JF 50 Bee?????
Hi Jason and all
JF 50 Bee was released at the Majorca Jest. Several were flown there, including my "twin bees Kangaroo" that logged 10 flights over the weekend and a couple of Five jets. Jesus Artes took his HotSpot powered by 3 bees but unfortunately was unable to fly due to numerous problems. The first batch of engines (25) has been shipped to customers and Friends in France, Germany, Portugal, Brazil, Mexico and Spain. The second batch (50) is in production now and won't bee ready until end of august. At this time we are not working on the AMA certification for the US market, but we will in a near future. If anyone is interested in photos or video of the Bees at Majorca jets, mail me.
Regards
Felipe Nieto
JF 50 Bee was released at the Majorca Jest. Several were flown there, including my "twin bees Kangaroo" that logged 10 flights over the weekend and a couple of Five jets. Jesus Artes took his HotSpot powered by 3 bees but unfortunately was unable to fly due to numerous problems. The first batch of engines (25) has been shipped to customers and Friends in France, Germany, Portugal, Brazil, Mexico and Spain. The second batch (50) is in production now and won't bee ready until end of august. At this time we are not working on the AMA certification for the US market, but we will in a near future. If anyone is interested in photos or video of the Bees at Majorca jets, mail me.
Regards
Felipe Nieto
