A10FLYER

Hi everyone,

I'm helping a friend get a Kangaroo ready to fly. He has a RAM 500 and standard set up except that he decided to put canards on it. He's not absolutely sure on where the CG should be so I'm hoping someone can help me out with a new CG. I also want to find out how the plane flies with canards. Has anyone had this set up or a similar one?

Terry Holston

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I'm sure the Mississippi gang will chime in with an answer for you. They were flying one a couple of weeks ago at Winamac.

They had a couple of youngsters flying it, also 13& 14 years old.

Sorry I forgot their names, :stupid: but Vernon Montgomery and David Reid know who they are.

DavidR

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Rick Yelverton is the Mississippi Gang guy that has the Canard-o-Roo. Send me an email and I will give you his email address.

David Reid

Topgun2mo

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Bob Fiorenze's friend, Paul Hopkins also sells canard units for the kangaroo and hot spot etc. He goes by the handle on this website as JPOFL. He could possibly help you also.

Mike

Terry Holston

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Yeah, that's the guy.

Roger Shipley

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Either myself for Paul Hopkins have the Canards for sale.
We have flown them on out Euro Firebirds.
[email protected]

A10FLYER

Hi Roger,

What kind of flight performace difference can you expect from the canards? I know that canards cause a change in CG. What is the recomended change for the Firebirds and Hot Spots?

Thanks for all your help guys, I'll get in touch with the MS gang and figure something out.

JPOFL

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If you like you can call me about the canards,I can tell you this the CG does not change,I put a set on my Firebird and It flew very
well.What they do is take all the reflex out of the aircraft thus making it fly even better.I am currenty out of stock,but I will have more soon.Maybe Roger has a set left.The canard package comes with everything but servo.I would rather talk by phone.
Thanks Paul Hopkins [email protected]

Roger Shipley

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Hi Mark, they do not change the CG on the Firebird.
They make it far more manuveraable and take a load off of the Elevons (Elevators).

Woketman

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I wish that Bob Parks was on here so he could comment. I'm a structures guy and I've forgotten 95% of my aerodynamics courses, but when the canards are added, it shifts the aero-center forward and the CG should also be shifted forward (at least it seems to me). Not doing so should make the plane fly more tail heavy. From what Roger and others have stated, it appears however, that it works just fine. I suspect this is because these designs have a wide range of acceptable CG locals and you can get away with leaving the CG as is. It may fly better if shifted forward a tad. And of course by adding the weight of the canards, pivot, linkages and servo you are indeed shifting it forward a bit. Anyone that actually KNOWS what they are talking about here to address this (cause I don't!)?

Roger Shipley

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Mark, you are reminded that I am speaking for the Euro Firebird not the old style deltas.
To be specific, the Firebird CG is 205mm from the break in the leading edge of the wing with or without canards.
Complicate it if you like, it still does not change!

Roger

Woketman

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Oh I believe it Roger! I guess they just have a large acceptable CG range.

Jetjock51

The Kangaroo is not sensitive to a forward CG location. I have flown my two Kangaroos at the CG and up to FOUR inches in front of the recommended CG. Believe it or not, it flies great at four inches forward. The white Roo that some of you may have seen doing the "chicken flop" flew most of it's life at a four inch forward CG. There were no negatives to flying it at that CG. That CG gave us a very predictable recovery from the chicken flop. It met it's end at Superman last year. I couldn't let well enough alone. It chicken flopped so well at four inches forward, it just had to flop twice as good at a two inch forward CG. Well, it didn't chicken flop any better, and the more rearward CG delayed the recovery just enough to get down into the trees on the right hand end of the field at Metropolis. As it was coming out of the maneuver, headed away from the trees, there was one lone, Kangaroo eating tree in between free air and Mother Earth. That tree ripped the left wing off, and the rest is history!

Two inches in front of recommended CG is a good starting point. That means six inches forward of the spar. If you are fond of wild gyrations, move it even further forward. It grooves really great, and still will slow down to land nice and easy, as long as you have large speed brake. If you don't have an air brake, you should fly at a full scale runway until you get really familiar with it.

If any of you Roo drivers happen to get too slow inverted, it will go into an inverted flat spin from which there will be no recovery UNLESS you reduce power to idle and get the nose down ASAP. You CAN NOT power out of an inverted spin with a Kangaroo.

Again, the Roo is very forgiving of a forward CG. It will bite you if you get it too far back. It can get real funky flying at the CG if you like to push the envelope as us Lott boys like to do.

Dennis Lott

JPOFL

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Hy Guys I talked to Roger Shipley (jetadic) and he tells me he still has two set left for Sale. His Email is [email protected]
Good Luck Paul Hopkins Jpofl

A10FLYER

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the input on the Canard-o-Roo. I have a good idea on where to start with it. I'm sure I'll have more questions but I'll see what I can do.

Dennis, how do you perform the famous, Chicken Flop? I've never seen it in person or on video, do you know where I could find a video to watch? Thanks again!

Jetjock51

Mark,

As far as I know, there is no video of the the chicken flop. I would like to have a video clip myself. It is a pretty spectacular maneuver with a jet.

The entry is made from an inverted climb at about a 45 deg. angle. After reaching sufficient (safe) altitude, reduce power to idle. Just as the plane stalls, go to full power and keep it there as long as you want to flop. The boys and I are able to flop as many as 12 times on the way down. That is with a 27 lb. class motor. With less thrust, you will only be able to get a couple of flops before it falls out and goes into the inverted flat spin of death. Once into the inverted spin, reduce power to idle and pull the nose down immediately. If your CG is not too far back, it will start flying again right away. Then you can roll upright, throttle up, and start flying again. If the CG is too far back, as in at the recommended point, it will be slow to recover. This is how I lost the white Roo. The CG on the white Roo was two inches in front of recommendation when it hit the tree at Superman.

What happens in the flop is that the high mounted engine creates a downward pitching force on the airplane. If you time the stall and throttle up correctly, it wil start tumbling end over end in its own length. If you really want to help it along, remove the 2mm shim from the rear of the engine. The tradeoff is that it will pitch down severely if you throttle up too quickly from slow flight, such as in an aborted takeoff.

If you decide to try it, let me know how it goes.

Good luck,

Dennis Lott