Saturday was the saddest day of my 19yrs of RC flying. Had two good flights. Did some loops, rolls, invert flight and slow flight. First flight land perfect. After talking some and watching some other modellers fly I went for my second flight. That went well and I landed. At the end of the runway I turned around and began to taxi back. Suddenly I saw a puff of smoke and knew that I had a flame out. I started walking to the plane and then I saw flames. I turn around and ran back for my fire extinguisher. By the time I got it and ran back to the plane the back was on the ground. I attempted the put out the flame by shooting the extinguisher up the exaust. The fire disappeared and I thought it was out until my flying buddies say that they could hear crackling on the inside. Suddenly the middle of the model burst into flames. I tried to use the extinguisher again but it was now empty. I didnot realized that a model can burn so fast. Because of the flames we were afraid to try to pull things apart for fear of a explosion. We watch as the entire model was destroyed. I could not save anything. $4000+ gone in a matter of literally seconds. I have sat and thought what I could have done to save something. This was our first fire at our field in Bermuda. While we all had personal chemical extingishers we realized that we need to buy a very big one (going for volume) and probably one for oil fires. It was definately a great flying model with the sim3000. It was sad to lose everthing.
Othneal in Bermuda

Sorry to hear about this. One of the big downsides to turbine flying is fire and the potential to lose literally everything. Sounds like the pump kept pushing fuel into the turbine after the flameout...

You mentioned "extinguisher up the exhaust"... FWIW, you should always fire the extinguisher down the intake, that way any burning fuel or gasses are directed out the steel tailpipe, not back onto the flammable interior of the jet. Also, you want a C02 or halon derivative (i.e. gas), not a chemical or dry extinguisher - chemical extinguishers should be considered a last resort, as any electronic or metal items will be damaged (dry chem agents are very corrosive).

Again, sorry to hear about your loss!

Barry

Bummer [:@][]

Perfect example of why I NEVER assume a flameout is just that. If I have an unexpected shutdown of my aircraft any time I am on the ground I immediatly am headed towards the plane with an extinguisher. This is not the first time I have heard of this happening and not how I wish to loose a plane....
Again, sorry for the loss
Todd

I had a simjet that would do this very same thing,not on a flame out but on a failed start ,the fuel pump would keep pumping raw fuel straight in until it was running out the front cover. Lucky it was on a kangaroo where we could see it. Would catch fire and burn out the exhaust sometimes, i guess from the propane fire. What caught yours on fire escapes me " turbine newby" If the plane acutally flamed out there would be no ignition source right?? Sad day though i know, alot of money and time , sounds like you were doing well with it too. Russ

VERY sorry to hear that!

Get back up on the horse and ride ASAP...............

I am sorry for your loss. I had a close call a while back and I remember the feeling going through the pit of your stomach[:@][:'(]

Good luck with you next endeavor.

Dave

That is terrible! I have lost a twin turbo 300 zx to a fire I couldn't stop. I just sat there and watched it burn, but I still think I would have felt worse watching one of my jets burn. Get back at it ASAP like someone said.

Saturday was a bad day for my roo too. Died in a flame out and belly landing. Sorry to hear about your loss, I can feel your pain too

someone neededs to patent a internal fire sprinkler or something to that nature that you turbine guys could hit a button and it would activate.. and shoot the engine/turbine with some fire retardent? someone make it, and send me some $$$ [sm=bananahead.gif]

there's gotta be a way to stop all this maddness!!

Probly a stupid idea.. but hell its a idea!

Sorry razorice79, it's already been done. Can't remember who designed or marketed it, but a search here on on the old archives will turn it up.

But good try. Here's your donut!

Barry

Someone told me you can tap into the combustion chamber and draw pressure off the turbine to blow your retracts down should you have a pressure loss in the air system and not be able to get them down otherwise.

While that may be possible, still don't see it in any jets.

While I'd love to see that system and this magical fire suppression system in our jets, I wonder how long I'll have to wait for this to be mainstream?

Like spread spectrum radios. Where is the 10 channel JR spread spectrum?

How about cutting off the air supply to kill the fire. Some kind of simple disk to cover the inlet and outlet would deprive the fire of oxygen and it would burn its self out in seconds. That is of course assuming that it hasn't burned through the fuselage by that time.

Here's a quick search on "current" RCU - [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/searchpro3.asp?phrase=%22onboard%22+%2B+%22fire%22 +%2B+%22extinguisher%22&forumid=120&product=&topic reply=combined&message=both&author=&timeframe=%3E& timefilter=0&language=single&top=300&criteria=AND& minRank=10&sortMethod=d&submitbutton=+OK+]On-Board fire systems[/link] I know I saw some commercial system on an R/C web site but it was a couple of years ago. IMHO any onboard system won't be very effective as the volume of extinguishing agent carried would be pretty limited. Plus the weight, etc...

Plugging the intake and exhaust won't work, way too many other air and fuel sources. And the risk of burns is too high! []

Just get a big CO2 extinguisher and be ready to use it. I know I have been a bit lax at times (not keeping extinguisher within reach, etc)...this incident is a good reminder/wake-up call. For me at least.

Barry

Sean, that's tapping off a compressor bleed for retracts. Several engines (TJT being one) still have taps installed where you can do that or use it to pressurize a smoke system.

I would love to see a bleed system, but a pressure regualting valve would be a must. I cant see how you could regulate the pressure coming off the compressor. The output would vary way too much with different power settings. Im sure it could be done, but at what weight? That would be really cool. By the way sorry about the euro..great plane..

Pete

Wow, so sorry to hear about the ES fire, It does indeed sound like the fuel pump for some reason kept pumping kero into the engine after engine shut down? For those who maybe interested the on board C02 system that TJT sells is called the TFSU (Turbine Fire Suppression Unit) using a fuel "T" fitting it can be plumbed into the start gas line of any turbine and is servo opperated, C02 soda bottle cartridges are used for the TFSU and are easily replaced if used.

Sorry about you loss,,,but guys , my first move is to Allways "close the fuel valve " anytime the turbine is not running, don't forget this one.[&o]

Pete, no regulating valve, just a check valve so that pressure can only go from the turbine into the retract accumulator.

Very sorry to here about your loss.
I have seen this on Sim Jet a few times over the years. I have seen it happen in flight! The engine has flamed out but the pump still runs.
One model it happened on was a friend of mine's F15 he was landing after flame out and we saw flames licking out of the wheel wells! When i got to it i could here the pump STILL running!
Some quick work with extinguisher saved the model.
A servo operated isolator would help.

That ıs the most HORRIBLE story ıve ever heard!
and ı know the feelıng a year back ı sent my Kyosho traıner on fıre
ın the house, the whole front burned, ı know ıts not the same
but at the tıme ı could not afford a new traıner, let alone the gallon of
fuel and can fof brutane 10cms away, me and my plane got off lucky.
I have emaıled SımJet about thıs and ıncluded a lınk to thıs thread
ı wıll tell you when ı get a reply

thıs ıs truely horrıble, and whıle ı thınk about whıch wıll be my 1st turbıne.
ı wıll erase SımJet. I cannot afford to lose any plane for a desıgn problem (thats
what ıt sounds lıke)

I really am sorry for your loss [][sm=crying.gif].

Cheers
Volkan

oh - just wonderıng can a jet glıde well ın a mıdaır flameout????

SORRY JUST REALISED IM IN TURKEY NOW ı = i

F-14, sure, F-15, YUP, MB339, YUP

F-20, F-5, F-104, etc, not so much! LOL

Hello Volkan I got your mail reg. KRAZY4RC thanks,

I am very sorry to hear this and especially when you stand next the plane and are totally helpless with a empty fire extinguisher.

I take note that KRAZY4RC don’t jump to any conclusions regarding that the engine are to blame and rightfully so , there can be a number of other reasons for the fire , KREZY4RC do not mention anything regarding that the pump was running, this is all conclusions that others in this post jump to.

Reg. Post form GaryUK[>:]

I think it is you son again Gary or ? . I don’t know what I have done to you son , but if someone have a problem With a SimJet (and this is quit rare this days ) he always jump in with old story’s and hearsay from years a go.

Let me make it clear that after June year 2000 when we got our new software a number of extra safety features was put in the software so that the fuel pump can not run if this criteria’s not are ok. This make it nearly impossible for the fuel pump to run if all not OK.

This is just some of pump stop commands ( old and new )

Pump will stop if RPM fall under 23000
Pump will stop if temperature and over 850 C for more than 3 sec.
If command are throttle UP and pump voltage are going up, temperature up but RPM stationary or falling the pump will stop.
If pump voltage are stationary and temperature going up at a specified rate the pump will stop.
If RPM are fluctuating at a pre set rate, at constant pump voltage ( running out of fuel ) the pump will stop.
If the pump voltage and going up with stationary throttle to keep same RPM and temperture ( leaking pressure or sucktion hose ) the pump will stop

And there are a some more that I will keep to my self.

Reading your post KRAZY4RC it seems to me your really a Ok guy so send me a mail at [email protected] and I will try to help you get a engine again for a fair price, not that I will take any Responsibility for what happened , but just reading you mail make me want to help you

SimJet
Lars Nohr ( on vacation ) I will be back 2 of August

As for blowing down the gear, Paul Hopkins, one of the best installers around, has done a couple of planes with backup air......simple system that taps off the separate brake air tank that most of us use......just put the gear swithch down, then momentarily transfer air supply from the brake tank....gear comes down, switch back, and usually have enough air left to hit the brakes.....I had one of his F-15's with that system....worked slick....

Tom