Just want to know ,
Knowing what you know now and you were to buy another turbine today what would it be and why.
Not wanting to start a flame war just wanting some INFO,
You can PM me if you rather . But i think there are some newbies out there that would like to know also.

In '05 I know I'm getting a Titan from Jetcat. If that engine is everything I'm hearing it is, I'm going to get a second one around July of '05 as well. The Jetcat P-120 remains the best turbine I've ever heard of in regards to reliability. My own experiance with it is that it's bulletproof.

In '06 I'll be getting a P-200 for an airframe that is in development stages right now.

I'm hearing great things about the Merlin, Rhino, and FTE turbines, but I'd like to see guys at meets flying the crap out of them before I'd drop the coin on them. So far, the guys that are putting 15 flights a day on their jets at meets and not having recurring problems have for the most part been Jetcat Turbines. When my equipment has been working properly, I've easily attained 10 to 15 flights a day out of the Jetcat products I've used.

Good Luck,

Sean

I'm no big fan of the jetcats. The fuel injectors run straight through the combustion chamber, construction methods of the chamber are more or less the russian variant rather than quality workmanship, and worst of all: jetcat ecu really jams into your radio. Crashes due to radio interference are usually linked to jetcat ecus. I've never seen an interference with a projet ecu....and if you excange the two, you will suddenly notice a much longer range on ground tests.
I dont know how it is in the states, but here in germany, jetcat pricing is also pretty high compared to other turbines...
I would go with FrankTurbines, SimJet, RAM, AMT (if you have the $$$) or similar.....generally speaking: if it is supplied with a projet ecu its probably a good reliable unit....

That is an interesting comment about the JetCat ECU. I am considering another turbine for a small jet. I am looking at a Wren44 or a JetCat P60. I would say a majority of the jets in the U.S. are powered by JetCats. What concerns me is the high number of unexplained crashes at U.S. fly-ins. That is why I have had some reservations about going with the JetCat line.

What do you mean by the injectors running straight through the combusion chamber? I have built two Wren MW54's and the injectors go into the vaporizer tubes which are S shaped.

Hal

I think this is what he is talking about ?


Jetcat P-80

The JetCat ECU was tested in JetPower several months ago, it and the AMT ECU were very quiet. In the USA we use a 4.0 or 5.0 ECU.

Ask the guys on here if they are seeing a range reduction with the JetCat ECUs. As for these crashes, I know in Mesa there were the Gaspar ECU and a at least one of JetCats, I do not think those crashes had ANYTHING to do with ECUs.

I haven't personally owned anything but Jetcats. I think the ECU interference is theory is wrong. I have well over 250 flights on my jetcat turbines. I check the failsafe counter each time I land. In all of those flights I have had 1 failsafe logged that lasted less than a half a second. Even in a twin powered plane I had no loss of signal and ZERO failsafe logged between both motors for 20 flights.

I have had one flame out, in which I didn't take the time to be sure the new UAT was purged of air bubbles. My experience with Jetcats and the impeccable service John and the crew give has been nothing but awesome.

I am saying nothing about any other manufacture. I don't know personally good or bad.

First off thanks for the kind words Kenny.

As for the interference thing with teh JetCat ECU's. A number of years ago we were using the older version 2 ecu which operated on a frequency which could give less than desirable range with our us radios. You had to move wires around and routinely install ferite cores to help settled down the noise issues.

The version 4 ecu came to life and the radio interference issues went away. There are still a few guys using the version 2 ecu in the states, and I personally think they are nuts!![X(]

As for the design of the combustion chamber and fuel needles, this I guess is a matter of personal preference. I believe that there is much better mixinbg of the fuel with teh design JetCat uses. I knwo Carlos has commented on how even the burn and such is on a JetCat compared to the older Ram line.

The radio issues experienced at Mesa had nothing to do with any manufacturers ecu's.

As for higher pricing from JetCat, yep it cost more. But if anyone knows of a way to (pay the salaries of Bob, Justin, and myself, as well as rent, utilites, shipping cost around the globe and warranty service) plese let us know. If we can do it cheaper then the motor prices come down. Service cost money, this has been discussed before. We try our best to make it happen for the US customer at JetCat USA. Just when we go to Florida and SUperman, those are $3000.00 + trips when you rent tent space, fly guys out there, get motels, rent cars, eat and such. As much as I have tried, I still can't get something for nothing.

What about JetJoe?..matt will go crazy again![sm=punching.gif]


Merry Christmas!

paul is greathttp://www.artesjetusa.com/index.html

I cast a strong vote for Jetcat. I own two P120's and a new Titan. Don't discount service, and I can personally attest to the quality of Jetcat service. Picked up some FOD damage to one of my 120's (now use a screen) and they really treated me right on the repair.

Going forward, I think I would go with the Titan rather than the P120. The power and throttle response have to be seen to be believed.

My vote goes to JET CAT.... own 2 p-70 & p120.... Service is First Class......
Semper Fi
joe

John, have you considered taking a salary cut for the benefit of your customers?


I decided to go with a Jet Cat P-120 for my first engine after spending a year flying with a friend. His entire fleet is Jet Cat powered and they have run nearly flawlessly.

Recently I've been able to get some runs in on D Kid's Artes Eagle and it has been an impressive engine and appears to have good customer service. I'm just waiting to see how it holds up in the long run.

Hey Dan, I was thinking about that. Maybe take a salary cut so we could lower the price of engines, give one or two away a day on a radio talk show or Opraha. [sm=bananahead.gif]

Or I could double my salary and enjoy the great benefits of park fliers with all the extra money.[sm=greedy.gif][sm=tongue.gif][sm=idea.gif]

Merry Christams my friend.

I think FTE engines .whic is old rams .Offcourse fte engines are update ,I have old rams now is 3 years old I never have problems, olso price and sevice great.dont spent lot of money same ram ,copys Sory my bad engilish,good luck




Ahmet helvacioglu

BN models

Hi

Concerning the combustion chamber fuel injection: it does preheat the fuel a lot better, however over time these injectors had a habbit of burning up.

As to the ECUs: A friend of mine ran various tests with projet ecus, also the 4.0. It really bust into the radio and reduced range, whereas on the projet he was able to wrap the antenna around the ecu (!!!!) without affecting the range when turned on.
You simply cannot deny that fact. I also know of many who have lost their jets due to that phenomenon. Others have been runing JetCats forever without problems....i guess you sorta gotta luck out.
Something that might be another factor: here in Germany we run on 35MHz. I believe the US has 75MHz. This difference might have other results concerning the JetCat interference....

Greets
Hank

Back to the thread.......

To me it is a bit like buying a car, I have a nice one and can't think of why another one would be better.

I have a Wren and love it, I would like to try the little Wren MW44 and will somehow probably get a super sport in due course.

There can be no doubt simply due to the weight of numbers that jetcats offer a good product, people simply would not continue to buy them. I doubt if any manufacturer has the perfect system, and as for the electronics, well I have a theory.

Back to the thread.......

To me it is a bit like buying a car, I have a nice one and can't think of why another one would be better.

I have a Wren and love it, I would like to try the little Wren MW44 and will somehow probably get a super sport in due course.

There can be no doubt simply due to the weight of numbers that jetcats offer a good product, people simply would not continue to buy them. I doubt if any manufacturer has the perfect system, and as for the electronics, well I have a theory.

A while back people started asking if new born babies were being affected by the scans, as statistics showed small babies had a significant number of scans. However this broke down when some guy with common sense stated that small babies are scanned more in any case!!!

How many sports models count the glitches and outages? Most of them wont even have glitch counters etc. in the jet world where sophisticated monitoring and counting of such issues takes place, then we will notice more problems. Also the number of jets in the world is significantly lower than the number of sports models, so I think a disproportianate level of statistics gives the impressions of more problems in the jet world than the rest.

However,

I would like to try a JetCat in the future if I get to fly something much bigger than I have now.

Someone mentioned Russian engineering, well compare the success of the Soyez Rockets to the shuttle, much safer and definately russian engineered. Basic can be good!!!

So for me, another Wren, ease of use, constructions support and guidance, and I have come to love its green colour!!

Gazzer

Gazzer, i love the wren stuff too. Have a homebuilt MW54 running in my Sabre...sweet little machine. A few mods to the MK1 design and now the small devil is pushing 6,3 kilos (a tad more than the current MK3 i believe). I also have it running on the so-loved ProJet Eagle ECU.

I was also the one mentioning the russian manufacturing methods......as for JetCat, the chamber vents are more or less bent "by hand" rather than using production rigs....so no 2 vents are going to be equal, reproducability is near zero (thats why many of the bees have to be disassembled and fine-tuned before going into sale). I just don't like the thought of that in a high tech turbine....
(nothing against the russians, they are very able to produce fine products with crude methods, especially in aviation....and quite often have a lot of more innovative approaches. I just don't think that a 50lbs hammer is the right tool to fix every problem )

Don't get me wrong, JetCat was leading the jet age a while back, but they have "rested" on that reputation and let many innovative ideas pass by....that, combined with the ECU problems, makes me look away from JetCat.

Mini flyer,

you make some fair points, nice to see you have a tuned wren!

High tech and accuracy can however sometimes limit cost effectiveness. If the chamber vents are not that critical, i.e. a high tolerance produces little discernible effects, then introducing a jig and accuracy will only slow down the process of manufacture increasing the costs. Perhaps and I am no expert, this is why it is hand done because it is not that critical.

I guess the only way to find out is to test several engines post manufacture under the same stringent basis, and then to play around with the chamber vents.

50lb hammers do have their place in engineering, but I do agree, subtlety is sometimes a better approach!!!

Gazzer

Heli4me,

I own a Simjet 2300 that I purchased new last year. It has run well for me and the only problems I have had were "operator" induced. Kevin and Ed at GNC have always been available to answer my questions. I believe there are a few very reliable turbines on the market all with good customer support. As for my Simjet I would not consider selling it for the price of a new one. My next turbine purchase (early 05) I will be looking at a few different brands so I get the one that best suits my airfame and offers me the options I am looking for.

OK I found it...

Dieter Perkuhn tested 5 different ECUs for the Jan-Mar 2003 issue of RC JetPower Magazine. He used a sensitive spectrum analyzer (Rhode and Schwarz) for all of the tests. He charted radiated emissions performance over a frequency band from 30 to 40 Mhz (this is an excellent article by the way, I wish he would run the same tests at 72 Mhz)

One quote regarding the Projet ECU performance:

"It is almost identical to the results obtained with the new JetCat electronics"

BTW in this article the quietest ECU was the AMT NL peice.


And guys, thanks for the kind words, all of those guys at JetCat USA are working hard for you. As Keith has indicated (and appreciated) many times, quality service is what you should expect from JetCat USA. If you ask me you get what you pay for with the service.