EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

I actually DO know one major turbine manufacturer, a very reputable guy, who has a Jetjoe putting out 18 pounds, but he knows JUST what he is doing...

I really had no idea what I was getting into when I bought this thing, I had no expectations. They have indeed come a long way. They did indeed start as just a cheap Wren clone, but seem to have diverged pretty far. They are learning.

The one thing I have not been hearing is thrust figures from guys who are actually getting the quoted 14 pounds thrust. I have NOT measured the thrust from mine. Anybody else?

YLF

My Feedback: (2)

Well I put my JJ 1400 back together this afternoon and back in the plane for a couple of runs and the thrust is about the same as with the burned out CC, so a bit disappointing. Max thrust read today was 10 lbs 4 oz outside temp was about 55 but the humidity was way up compared to last time so not a real exact comparison. Also, remember that these numbers are with it in the plane so they will be a little lower than actual output if on a good test stand.

Anyway, I may still play around with the exhaust diameter (Todd? ET?) and see If I can get a little more out of it. I see that the new engines are still being shipped with the two piece cone so Joe must feel it does a better job.

Mike

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

I apologize, I will measure the tailcones tomorrow...

B1Driver

My Feedback: (26)

When I measured the thrust on mine, I had it on a decent test stand with well oiled rollers and a digital scale. I measured 9.8lbs from it. I didnt note what the temperature or humidity was as this should not have that dramatic of an effect on a turbine. It was with the one piece tail cone. I do believe that if the fuel injectors have a something to do with it...any others want to input on this?

Luis

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Luis, I might not be here on Feb 1, if not, I'll catch you next time you are in Austin.

TREADSTONE

WHAT... ...thou pullest our legs.....where on earth did this come from......you been down the Pub..?.....

Paul Turbine Jet Man

Easy tiger

NO I haven’t measured thrust yet as all my equipment it now zip tied to the test bench and quite frankly pulling that all apart and trying to rig up a scale of some sought seems like a lot of work and hassle.
Even if I were to go to all the effort and measure thrust it still boils down to do you believe it anyway????
In this game I like to do my own tests shear my results if necessary for those who want them and that’s all I expect, but im not going to attempt to publish results that might be to low or high due to inevitable variables.

I think JJ’s reputation has been damaged enough Unnecessarily !!!! And people need to cut this man some slack and embrace his a little more.


For me if the turbine runs and gives me 12 lb or more im happy as a pig in mud WHY because its my first turbine, its going in a jet that used to fly on about 4 – 5 lb of REAL (in flight) thrust using an (OS 91 with ramtec fan ) and I had it clocked at 311 km’ph . This jet is going to be ballistic with turbine power any way so exact figures don’t concern me that much.


From my opinion and actually running this turbine I can say its pushing out 13-14 lb. If I don’t hold the bench firmly it will push it over NO problem and this bench weighs quite a bit indeed.

Once I have the turbine installed into the jet I will measure thrust for sure no problem and I will post results for all just give me some time.


Rcdriver22 thanks for your comments I have added them to the e-mail.

On the oil side of things 5% is the norm BUT I know some very experienced turbine flyers and they say 5% is to much and that 4% is a better choice. BUT once again that is someone else’s POV.

I ran the turbine some more last night and today 13 runs now and everything seems to be in good shape.


I hope more people take the plunge and just go and get one and start having some fun !!!! it’s a grate feeling and the noise they make is just so beautiful.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

And what if the engine is only putting out 9 pounds?

Get a scale, rig up some drawer slides, and measure it.

rcdriver22

My Feedback: (1)

Hey Treadstone

How did you know I was in the pub?? I was only proping the bar up and chatting to the wenches.
__________________________________________________ __________________
GTBA Code of practice Appendix 2

Turbine Oils containing Organophosphates

Special oils, designed for full size gas turbine operation, may contain hazardous chemicals such as organophosphates. Given suitable precautions to avoid skin contact and the breathing of vapours these oils can be used safely. However non-toxic alternatives such as TCW-3 two stroke oil are available and have been used successfully in model gas turbines. Many operators may prefer to use these oils because of their environmentally friendlier properties. If you are in any doubt as to the suitability of these oils for you particular engine you are advised to consult the designer or manufacturer.
__________________________________________________ ________________

What do I know? only that full size crew avoid ALL direct skin contact and never stand down wind (this is also more to do turbine bits coming loose). If you read the COSH notes for the turbine oil "Control of Substances Hazardous to Health Regulations" - COSSH... then it is pretty clear don't put the children, pets or fish ponds down wind. I think the organophosphates mentioned was a useful substance within Suddams Weapons?? Lastly its just a good reason why less oil or TCW3 is better all round.

Gone flying

Paul
RCdriver

B1Driver

My Feedback: (26)

Paul you might not care, but I sure as hell do... Try pushing an 18lb plane with a 9lb turbine when its supposed to do 14lb. The results arnt very pretty no matter how you look at it. Hook us up with picture of this plane your putting it in. I'd love to see what goes 311kph on 5lbs of thrust.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Well, maybe his IS putting out 14 pounds, I dunno! Test it! Have NOT measured my own.
I do remember Sean running yours and saying "it runs like a little engine should!" Starts and runs, but was it putting out the stated thrust...or even CLOSE to it? Big difference, depending on what plane you have.

TREADSTONE

...Christ man, this is 1,000,000 times more hazardous to your health than baithing in turbine oil daily...

..was he in the pub with you when he told you this...

J. Campbell

My Feedback: (31)

That is just the reason i got rid of the jet-joe . Their quality is good, has definatley gotten better since the first ones and the engines are safe but mine was putting out 10.5 lbs.. and it was a 1200 that was supposedly converted to a 1400.. YES!! $1550.00 is a GREAT deal, IF you are wanting a 10lb motor.. Not so great if you try to put it in an airframe that needs more or were expecting 14lbs..

The reason i am posting this Now as opposed to 6 months ago is that i was not for sure if it was just MY motor as mine was converted by me from a 1200 to a 1400 or if it was all the motors that were not up to snuff as for as the thrust ratings go,,

I have seen only 1200's that were fitted with the new parts on the test stand and the highest numbers i saw were 11.25 out of 4 , The norm was the 10 to 10.5 that so many of you are seeing...

i only had limited access and have never seen a 1400 STRAIGHT from China on the stand. MAYBE the 1400's are putting out more, i can only guess.. I also have heard that the ones the guy in the UK builds are doing better... Russ

GSR

My Feedback: (145)

Organophosphates are the active ingredients in many pesticides (many of them banned now , BTW). Yes they are dangerous and the effects are cumulative. The antidote is Atropine.. Scott

YLF

My Feedback: (2)

I ran my jj1400 again this morning, first with the single piece tail cone then swapped on the two piece so I make sure it wasn't better matched to the new combustion chamber. Outside temp was 50 - 55 F and humidity was much lower than yesterday when it was raining.

Single cone put out 10 lbs 12 oz
Two piece cone 9 Lbs 6 oz

So the single piece cone is still doing better for me, but it does run hotter at 650c vs 580c with the two piece.

I did find that my case is leaking quite a bit of air at the front where there is a bit of a gap between the screws that hold the case to the diffuser due to the case being too big (or the diffuser too small) I've had this issue with both of the JJ1400's I've had. Can you guys that just got your engines tell if the case to diffusser fit is tighter?

Any suggestions for sealing up the front of the case?

Also, for those interested, I posted a video of my Intro flying with the JJ1400. This was taken last summer/fall so thrust was probably around 8-9 lbs

http://media.putfile.com/jetjoeboomer

Mike

J. Campbell

My Feedback: (31)

Firstly you need a NEW o-ring.. You can get it at and rubber and gasket supply store.. You also can put a SMALL amount of clear RTV on the ring and front egde of the ring to help seal that flimsy can.... BE CAREFUL not to get any RTV on the BACK side of the oring as this will flake off and go directy into the chamber.. Russ

rcdriver22

My Feedback: (1)

He doesn't get in much to my local as a regular [ but two upright guys George and Tony said on FOX news that these WMD things had some inside. So it must be ........???

My little can of Mobil Turbine Oil says repeated breathing causes "nervous system effects" its repeated in 14 different languages come on these guys should know everyone speaks and reads english. I'd just guess that it is typed in the smallest font size those expensive lawyers use because its nothing much to worry about. [8D]

My wife has read this post (over my shoulder) and I'm grounded for life!!! If I go near the pub and any wenches all the jets and turbines are going to be crushed!! Any hanky panky in the pub then its liberal doses of turbine oil into the tea till I begin to twitch [:-]

rcdriver22

My Feedback: (1)

Mike
Great video much appreciated, looks a good flying strip. From the bunts I know you've made a first class tank setup. The figures confirm that the single exhaust was offered for extra thrust, looking back at a stock JJ1400 the eleven pounds thrust is not unusual but the EGT might be a little high.

The gap between diffuser and case might occur as you position the case and glow pug then twist the case to align the feeds and holes up etc. A small fine bead of clear silicon as Russ suggests in front of the seal ring will do it, also offer up the front cover with a smear washing up liquid so it doesn't stick to it. Red auto exhaust gum only for any rear sealing problems.

Before I'm jumped on, all the generics tweaks for all JJ both 1200 and 1400s have been given here. Minimum 12 blades on compressor, even fuel delivery from every injector needle, a $100 constant supply pump, constant uniform fuel-air mixing, dispersion of fuel onto the hot face side with only iconel sticks gives through a mirror a blue-ish uniform burn at 160k, any red or black areas or yellowish flames its snafu.

Paul
RCdriver

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

I forgot to measure those tailcones again, YLF. But the small cone is quite small, and was only given with the earliest 1200s, so you probably don't have one, and Todd is probably talking about that one, I don't know.
Sure wish Joe would make a decent fuel pump, it's definitely a fly in the ointment, don't know anybody flying(bench running, sure) with the stock fuel pump, and it adds $100+ to the cost of the engine.

J. Campbell

My Feedback: (31)

In my opinion the Flightworks pump isnt much better, it went out on mine and also i had one go out on a simjet.. Maybe my fault somehow.. russ

YLF

My Feedback: (2)

I flew the intro two flights yesterday evening and the extra thrust was noticeable with about a 100 ft takeoff run and it came off on its own. Vertical climb was better but far from unlimited. A couple people commented that it sounded better (More like a jet) with the one piece tail cone. It's a bit louder now but a lower pitch, more of a rumble than the original whine. Will try to get some better video with the improved thrust and using a tri-pod for the camera.

I have the flightworks pump and have had good luck with it so far.

I will work on getting the front of the case sealed better but from everything I've seen and from my own experience it seems that 11lbs thrust is about par for a stock jj1400. Hopefully Joe has continued to improve the design and the new engines are putting out closer to 14 lbs. For reference, mine is S/N 751

Mike

rcdriver22

My Feedback: (1)

Tar Baby..

...500, 2380, MBJII are all something like 97% the same, its only the manufacturers base oil addative package that diferentiates them slightly.....by the time we've diluted them down further...well, the difference is'nt even worth typing about... Personally, having spent several years in the oil reaserch buisiness i wouldnt really use the Steam Turbine or 2 stroke oils which have totally different lubrication properties completley...just my threepennybits worf...


_____________________________

We shall require a substantialy new way of thinking if mankind is to survive.
Albert Einstien.

is this ka ka...


quote:

ORIGINAL: rcdriver22

.... I was only proping the bar up and chatting to the wenches.

Paul
RCdriver



...Christ man, this is 1,000,000 times more hazardous to your health than baithing in turbine oil daily...

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcdriver22

..I think the organophosphates mentioned was a useful substance within Suddams Weapons??

Paul
RCdriver


..was he in the pub with you when he told you this...

EASYTIGER Date 1/29/2006 4:39:41 PM
Well, maybe his IS putting out 14 pounds, I dunno! Test it! Have NOT measured my own.
I do remember Sean running yours and saying "it runs like a little engine should!" Starts and runs, but was it putting out the stated thrust...or even CLOSE to it? Big difference, depending on what plane you have.
B1Driver Date 1/29/2006 4:22:54 PM
Paul you might not care, but I sure as hell do... Try pushing an 18lb plane with a 9lb turbine when its supposed to do 14lb. The results arnt very pretty no matter how you look at it. Hook us up with picture of this plane your putting it in. I'd love to see what goes 311kph on 5lbs of thrust.

rcdriver22 Date 1/29/2006 11:14:34 AM
quote:

ORIGINAL: TREADSTONE22


quote:

ORIGINAL: rcdriver22


This side of the big pond using aviation turbine oil is not recommended by GTBA and BMFA because of the health risks and accumulated effects.



WHAT... ...thou pullest our legs.....where on earth did this come from.. ....you been down the Pub..?.....




Hey Treadstone

How did you know I was in the pub?? I was only proping the bar up and chatting to the wenches.
__________________________________________________ __________________
GTBA Code of practice Appendix 2

Turbine Oils containing Organophosphates

Special oils, designed for full size gas turbine operation, may contain hazardous chemicals such as organophosphates. Given suitable precautions to avoid skin contact and the breathing of vapours these oils can be used safely. However non-toxic alternatives such as TCW-3 two stroke oil are available and have been used successfully in model gas turbines. Many operators may prefer to use these oils because of their environmentally friendlier properties. If you are in any doubt as to the suitability of these oils for you particular engine you are advised to consult the designer or manufacturer.
__________________________________________________ ________________

What do I know? only that full size crew avoid ALL direct skin contact and never stand down wind (this is also more to do turbine bits coming loose). If you read the COSH notes for the turbine oil "Control of Substances Hazardous to Health Regulations" - COSSH... then it is pretty clear don't put the children, pets or fish ponds down wind. I think the organophosphates mentioned was a useful substance within Suddams Weapons?? Lastly its just a good reason why less oil or TCW3 is better all round.

Gone flying

Paul
RCdriver


ot..

B1Driver

My Feedback: (26)

Not to ruffle any feathers, but how about we stay on the topic this thread was started on?

J. Campbell

My Feedback: (31)

I "think" he meant to post that reply in MY thread about turbine oils, Maybe the mod can strike it.. Russ

Paul Turbine Jet Man

i will post pics and video when i get my jet back from the paint shop in 2 weeks so please have some patients. []

i will post results about thrust WHEN i have the turbine installed in the JET and i can put it on scales.

My jet is a trim aircraft Spectra and it did!!!! 311km at Tamora (melbourn Australia in 2003) at a jet event clocked by a guy on the ground with a radar gun during a dive. as for the 5lb comment when a DF jet is flying it looses a lot of thrust as the airspeed of the jet cancels out most of the e-flux / thrust once at speed. That’s the flaw when it comes to DF. As for turbines the E-Flux is MUCH higher so I will have far more (FLYING) power and thrust to use as apposed to the DF.


As for the twin cone vs the single can I just take off the inner cone off the turbine or do I need a new tail set up from JJ.

I agree a 14 lb turbine should be a 14 lb turbine but hey if you that worried about it and its fact that the jj 1400 only puts out about 11 lb MAX then go and spend the extra $$$ and buy jet cat.


Maby jj’s new 18 lb turbine will give us the desired 14lb we wanted ?