qsdriver

What would you all recomend for a first D-Fan. Building is no problem however i would like to keep the cost down as much as possible. In other words the sky is not the limit with funds. was thinkingt about the Regal Eagle. what do you think?

bcovish

My Feedback: (8)

Go with a TGA F15. Easy to build and also a great flyer with a Byron or Dynamax. Now let me tell you something, if your talking about first turbine sometime in the future, go with a Bob Cat / Jet Cat combo.

If your not doing anything over the weekend of Nov 1 - 3, come over to Lake Wales for the Jet International Jet Rally. Will be lots of flying and plenty to drool over.
You are not located very far from there. Hell, if nothing else make a day trip out of it.

Now I'm off to the Great Pumpkin Fly In in east Texas.

PR38

This topic comes up all the time. Do a search in the Jets forum and you will find plenty of threads on this topic.
Hope it helps,
PS-I second the TGA F-15

Kevin Greene

My Feedback: (85)

Ditto what Bob said. I've owned a Top Gun F-15 and the performance envelope is awesome. It will slow down very well, flies from grass fields and will turn a respectable speed. I would get the Dynamax version. This fan unit is very popular and will drop right in to other airframes. There is nothing wrong with the Byro-jet version---just not as many choices of airframes to drop that power plant in to if something happens to the plane.

I would stay away from Bob Parkinson models. Lately, his delivery record is poor and some folks have not yet received what they ordered. (Do a search) Although the Top Gun airframe will cost more than the Regal Eagle, the rest of the parts will cost the same no matter which one you buy. Some good deals can be had in the swap section on RCU. Good luck!!! It will be good to have another jet jockey with us.

Kevin

bvmjethead

My Feedback: (10)

You're gonna get a million different opinions.

Mine is this.

Ducted fans, are not the top of the food chain in r/c planes anymore since turbines have come to town. BUT they still require a great deal of engineering in the kit to help you be successful. D/F's are flown, and fly COMPLETELY different than ANY other kind of plane you've flown. NOTHING can prepare you for the experience. You do not have any airflow over the control surfaces of the aircraft, UNTILL you are at speed. I dont care if you've got a Patriot with a 1.08 jammed on the front of it that goes 250 MPH you have prop wash there, it's not the same.

They require LOTS of power (and reliable power) and lots of slow speed lift to help you get through those first 100 landings when your knees are knocking together so loudly you can hardly hear the engine.

When you try to "save $$" and get into jets, you are asking for a crash. You can and will spend at least $1500.00 on the cheapest jet on the market. And you'll end up with just that, the cheapest jet on the market. Marginal performance, shoddy design, poor engineering, crappy parts fit, do I need to go on?

You can probably get a used BVM Maverick or Maverick Pro for about $3000, less without the radio gear. With a BVM product you will have the best chance at success there is. < that's a period.

Spend the money or dont get into jets.

I've seen it at LEAST 50 times. A guy wants to get into jets, but he doesn't want to come off the $$, so he gets a Regal Eagle or a Byron whatever. he gets it built (finally after 400 trips to the Hobby Shop) asking the advice of somebody who has never even seen a ducted fan let alone flown one, (and you're gonna let this guy tell you what kind of linkages to use???) It ends up costing him like $2,000.00. The monent of truth comes, down the runway, it gets up, one of the gear does not retract, or the engine is burbling (cuz the guy want's to use Cool Power @ $9.99 a gallon instead of Wild Cat D/F fuel or Powermaster D/F fuel @ $ 14.99 a gallon, or Fox idle bar glow plugs for God's sake, don't laugh I've seen it with my own two eyes) it's underpowered, it's getting WAY out there, so he goes to make the first turn and overcompensates, (cuz the manual didn't give you precise control throws or CG location), it's inverted, (he pulls instead of calmly righting the plane and continuing on in the turn) next thing you hear is a muffled POW and the VERY next thing you hear is "I got hit, it went into PCM lockout".

Upon finding the thing and retreiving all the peices, which by the way are completely un-repairable, the guy is continuing to whine about radio interference.

Or, here's another senario, the guy does get a decent flight, (he's being lapped by guy's with Mavericks with the old KBV .72's in them though) and he's set up on final, right over the center lines, looking good, stay on the power, use the elevator to control descent not the throttle, good good, a little hot but it's still on the lines, flare, flare good it's on the ground......wait a minute what just flew off the model, HEY why it it swerving right towards that landing light or barrier fencing, HEY, I couldn't afford brakes !!!!!!!! oh that was my tire that flew off the rim, and my nosegear broke on landing. OUCH that was the landing light that caught my wingtip, my $1500.00 plane is doing cartwheels down the runway.........

Where are you now? A $1500.00 pile of fiberglass in a plastic bag, and a REALLY bad taste in your mouth.

Do your own thing dude but DON'T get into jets untill you are willing to get a kit or plane from a manufacturer with a SOLID reputation for quality, design engineering, and GREAT customer service.

I'd go with BVM. < that's another period

bcovish

My Feedback: (8)

gsdriver,

Sent you a PM.

Phil Cole

Since BVM don't have any details of their older models on their website it would be handy to have a run-down on what the Maverick, Aggressor, etc. were all about.

Size, constuction (composite, built-up, etc.), flight envelope, and so on...

Why was the Maverick recommended as a first DF, and not some other BVM model?

qsdriver

Thank you everyone for your reply -I appreciate them all and will take everything into consideration. This is a great website and the information provided is very valuable. I will spend what it takes to do this right -dont get me wrong, but you get into scale and its starts to get a little steep. I realize this airplane will take a few hard landings and scratches so I dont care if its scale or care to spend the extra money on it. I am going to research the TGA F-15 as a few of you have recomended it -Thanks very much.

bvmjethead

My Feedback: (10)

It was recommended as a first D/F because it flies very easy, compared to other D/F's available at the time.

-Well designed wing. Good when slow and fairly fast on the top end.
-Ease of construction, If you can build a pattern plane (fiberglass fuse and foam wings) you can build a Maverick.
-Easy to see in the air, with the "trainer" wing tanks. When you get better take off the tanks and gain like 30 MPH top end.
-BVM .91 is WAY more reliable and more powerful that the O.S. .91
-Everything you need is in the kit except glue, epoxy, paint, sandpaper, radio, and engine combo, but you can get the engine combo if you like.
-Excellent, TOP NOTCH instruction manual with pictures and lots of them.
-PLUS a great support staff that are there for you from taking the kit out of the box to helping you tune the engine and even test fly at the field.

If you like tinkering this is NOT the jet for you.

Scott

Brian W.

My Feedback: (6)

Oh give me a break, BVM are not the only jets that fly well on the market. Sick of hearing it.

The F-15 is an excellent choice for a first jet, you'll have lots of fun with it.

bvmjethead

My Feedback: (10)

Brian,

Sick of people always twisting BVM proponents words.
Quote me like I've quoted you here where I ever said BVM jets were the "ONLY" jets on the market that fly well.

Now, tell me something I DID SAY is not true......if you can.

I have never seen any other jet manufacturers product fly as well as any BVM product. And I've seen Byron, CAI, Top Gun, Bob Parkinson, Yellow, Avonds, Spider Jets, A.D., Fiberclassics, Graupner, Century Jet, J.H.H. and a host of others that are either out of business or scratch built.

Scott

1Eye

My Feedback: (2)

Scott replied to Brian ...
Now, tell me something I DID SAY is not true......if you can.

I have never seen any other jet manufacturers product fly as well as any BVM product.
>>>>

Sheesh, another hornet's nest/food fight of the drones trying to take out or take on the infidels Some of this stuff gets pretty entertaining but I think the thread starter's original question has been answered.

Brian W.

My Feedback: (6)

Well, let's see, I have built some of the jets that you listed including Byron, Yellow, and Avonds. Not once did I not have all of the information necessary to build the plane, get it set up, and in to the air. And not once did I have to take my plane home in a garbage bag because it wasn't a BVM kit. It' s this attitude that you portray that is so annoying, I have nothing against BVM kits at all.

I have heard the argument over and over that all other kits require endless trips to the hobby store, it's just not true. Please, tell me about all this hardware that isn't included in these kits, I would love to know what they are and especially how they can add up the the huge difference in cost. Ridiculous.

And my favorite comment of yours, if you don't have the money then don't get into jets. Real winning attitude there, that's going to make people really want to get into the jet scene. Not.

I bought my first DF for 700 bucks several years ago, complete. Guess what, I learned how to fly jets and had a lot of fun doing it. I still have that airframe, a yellow f-4 and I still fly it today.

Razor-RCU

My Feedback: (50)

Well, I just got a Top Gun F-15 (Byron) with Spring-airs, an OS 91 everything but the RX and TX for $400 bucks! I guess that I will have to spend the other $800-$900 on something else

Darn it, I wish I had found a BVM jet that looks, flies and smells the same as my TG for $1500....Maybe next time!

This is a good old-fashioned pissing contest. I know that BVM stuff is outstanding, but I also know that coming from a Patriot or other prop-jet, I do not need "high fashion" brand names to learn.

Search "First D/f or First jet" and see what happens...

Same crap as when I was riding my Kawasaki Ninja, the Ducati guys would pull this.... Then ride 30MPH through all the corners.

james

1Eye

My Feedback: (2)

Razor said ...
Well, I just got a Top Gun F-15 (Byron) with Spring-airs, an OS 91 everything but the RX and TX for $400 bucks!
>>>>

OSOD, I just paid Cobra Jack $450 for a primo condition, turn-key ByroBlaster Enforcer that I added to my stable as a backup toy (I cut my jet teeth on the Enforcer then went TGA F-15 and then the turbine stuff: Bandit, Top Cat, Avonds F-15. I like 'em all; jets are cool, no matter who makes them.)

Richard Buescher

Well I'm not going to argue anything..... but... I bought a Maverick pro earlier this year with everything for 700 or 800 dollars. It had very little damage. It took about a day to repair it and another night to shoot the paint. I actually like to fly this plane the most out of my fleet. It has such good low speed characteristics. I can actually touch the tail down before the main gear without it trying to snap or do stupid things. I had an Interceptor, it never landed anything like this. (bounces/tries to rip the gear out of the wing) (It got sold to fund the next plane) My father Had a TG f-15. It was sold because we both liked the Mav Pro better. The F-15 is definitely better than the Interceptor.
Be careful with the narrow landing gear on the F-15. Unless you have an extra wide gear stance it will probably be tippy on the ground!
Oh yeah.. you cant beat the reliability of a BVM engine! (Just had to get that in there cause it's true.)

jtech

Now, for answers to the original question?

FireBee

My Feedback: (34)

QSdriver: lots of good info in posts by BVMJETHEAD, Brian W and others. You will always get several opinions on manufacturer.
Brian W here is my first Jet Yellow F-4. Fly NAVY.

Point is get started, don't delay. here was my formula.

1. Ask lots of questions from actual jet flyers. They are built (secure everything) and fly different (mostly on rotation and landing (nose high for me). Research your acft/kit.

2. Engine reliability a must. I use MC-9 plug and Wildcat 5% for OS .77 or OS.91. I also like inflight needle valve mixture.

3. Always have a proven jet pilot do your first flights. I'm lucky as we have 4 to 5 expert jet pilots in our area. (this fact just saved my Byron F-15 twin D/F on its first flight.)
My knee's were knocking just watching my baby get airborne. after 5 flights myself, no more knocking.

I learned on Yellow F-4 for 1 reason it is my favorite jet and I had to have one. George Miller article many years ago also influnced me and expert help in phonecall to Bob Fiorenze.
Advantages: Muscle car of jets, proven flyer, wide stance, lifting body, does spins well, great color schemes and I traded for it years ago.
Disadvantages: had OS.77. Therefore advice I got was KISS. no flaps, just retracts. (I later added centerline drop tank)

Total weight is under 10 lbs. That why I think it fly's so good. Does have pitch tracking (slight up/down) at full throttle about 150 MPH but fellow flyers told me this so I was PREPARED and anticipated it. Continue to ask many more questions and learn.

Just go for it.
Mike sends

PR38

I'll second that. Probably the best advice you can get is to listen to many people and then make your own decisions. If you ask one question 10 times, you will get 10 similar answers--the consitencies are what matters. I think the BVM "clique" is showing its true colors...again. There are plenty of great airplanes out there, and much of their flight success has to do with proper set-up and piloting.
Just jump into it, but be aware that you are flying a different kind of animal alltogether.
Best of luck

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

HEAR! HEAR! JETS ARE COOL!!!!

The most sane statement anyone has said on this thread, (except the TGA F-15 recommendation)

bvmjethead

My Feedback: (10)

It is so funny how easy it is to get so many feathers ruffled.

1. I never bashed another product, specifically, by name.
2. I gave good advice, could he possibly go wrong by getting a BVM product?
3. I was the first to suggest to actually go to "several events" and see what's flying before buying.
4. I still have'nt heard any strong evidence as to why he shouldn't consider a BVM product.
5. I never said that no other product would NOT fly, I simply stated the facts, BVM flies better, and makes it easier to learn.

None of you can say you had a problem with one BVM jet that wasn't resolved by the factory team, and with the quickness. Sure they're have been problems, but take a look at the BVM website and look the few directives and addendums to kits and kit instructions. Honesty and integrity in manufacturing, wanting the modeler to really have success and fun. Cant really say that about to many current manufacturers.

All you can do is whine about how we're a clique, and how we have some kind of superiority complex, blah, blah, blah. Yet you still have yet to give Qsdriver a real reason NOT to buy a BVM product. Come up with something viable, or pipe down.

Scott

Razor-RCU

My Feedback: (50)

DO NOT tell us to "pipe down" on a message forum, that kinda goes against the point of the forum.

Each opinion means as much as the next, even if it is a Manuf. rep. talkin' down his/her nose to the rest of us...

You will not help the hobby when you post like this on the web, you need to be PROFESSIONAL eg "Yellow Aircraft":

Knowledgeable yet open to criticism, you are just a jerk !

james

bvmjethead

My Feedback: (10)

Funny, how the non-BVM crowd or should I say clique are always the first to start name calling as well.

Still no viable reasons NOT to buy BVM, just innuendo and namecalling.

Scott

PR38

"Funny how this..." and "Funny how that..." ---be quiet little pee-ons, right? This is exactly what I'm talking about. The "clique" has nothing to do with the product. I clique is made of people like yourself that can't see the forrest for the trees.
You want one good reason: he charges three times what his planes are worth. Why the he(( should somebody start off with a top of the line jet? So they can dork it in the ground and be out all that cash?
I really am getting tired of all this bickering. You tell other people to "pipe down" but you should read how you bash other poeple.

bcovish

My Feedback: (8)

Why can't we just get along. A fellow asked a good question as to a first df. I like a few others have expressed opinions as to the best first jet. Why can't we just leave at that. Express you opinion and leave it alone and let the fellow who asked the for our opinions make up his own mind.
This bickering back and forth really gets old (fast).