O.k.
guys READ EVERYTHING AGAIN and watch carefully.
This are three(!!) different planes with the same design.

First one is at the VIDEO with a Behotec J66 engine with 75N thrust and the max speed is 395 km/h (246mph). It has a long black canopy. Take off weight is 11lbs. This one flew at the AMT- Jet-Meeting at Porz/Germany with 33° celsius outside air temperatur with approx. 370 km/h. 395km/h was meassured at 6°celsius. I´ve seen Bennys Pulse Jet. 420 is for sure but a loud plane always seem to be faster than a quite turbine plane.

Second plane has a Behotec J66HP engine with 85N thrust. The clamps are just turned around now!! This plane showed at the first meassured flight 455km/h. It is the one a this Homepage: http://lim0707.bei.t-online.de/niels.html
Max speed was 481 km/h(299mph). Take off weight is 11.4lbs

The third one is powered by a Behotec JB130 engine with 140N !!
and has a take off weight off 14lbs. It is at this homepage: www.hessenbruch.de/niels and it is the fastes with 576km/h(358mph)

Look at the colours. I think pink and green are the best colours for flying far away.

Hope it makes everything more clear.

@mikec if the vertical plane would be included then it would be faster.
and no one said that it is for the Guiness Book

Niels

Sorry Vmax,

I still say NO WAY it does 576kmh/358 mph!
- and I mean not any of the 3 models with this same wing & design.

It did fly at our meeting at Porz, and it's quite possible that it was in the 230mph/350 kmh range (but certainly no quicker) - but another 180 kmh with an extra 6.5kgs of thrust.... !!!!!

Dream on,

Mike C

mike,
you should check the JB130!!
It is not only the thrust it is real power.
The exhaust gas leaves the nozzle with a very!! high speed.
that makes the speed. not only the thrust.
if this speed doesn´t fit into your reality I can´t help you.
but it is for sure.
do you know Ilja Grum?
He has seen this thing. Ask him.
do you know how drag behaves?
you need approx. twice as much power to be 50% faster. this is the case here,
look carefully. the fins a at the last one are smaller and the space between the fins is bigger. this result in less induced drag.

Yaknow... nobody ever wants to believe anything is faster than they think it is...
unless it's theirs, of course You see the same phenomena amongst car buffs,
though for them it's trivial to just take it to the local "legal" dragstrip and
"put up or shut up", as it were. I'm very surprised that someone hasn't marketed
a set of speed traps for you guys, by now. It shouldn't be that difficult to come up
with a two pylon system, and have the plane carry a small transponder unit
that starts the timer as it passes one pylon, then stops the timer as it passes the second.
Surely with all the claims, and all the disbelief lately... it won't be long now

(I know that's groundspeed, not airspeed... but then again, so is the gps)

and

Knocking GPS as a speed measurement is laughable. GPS measures speed at 1 Hz, and since it measures in relation to previous position - not absolute position - it is not subject to the position errors. It just measures current position minus previous position and clculates speed. You don't need a "high-grade" GPS as it's a simple measurement and calc. Yet 1 Hz is long enough time that it won't react to vibration and give spurious spikes. Over small (few meters) relative distances it is MORE accurate than say over some kilometers. Even with Selective Availablity ( signal degradation by the US Dod) any GPS doing 1Hz updates will be accurate within 0.6 mph. They work up to 999 mph. There's your reality check.

Looks to me like ET and Mr. Mike are just reaching for things to try to discredit Vmax with. Join the modern world fellas. Unless you want to accuse Vmax of lying, there is no 50 mph error here.
I'll give him the 350 mph ( groundspeed ) badge.

Sorry, not meaning to pick on Vmax, he seems a nice enough guy, I don't know him from Adam. I just have seen this before. Somebody makes a speed claim that is CATEGORICALLY higher than any previous record...chances are it is a timing error.
Like the 287mph Sig Wonder.
You could hit 355 while still attached to the bungee, probably.
It reminds me of a story I once heard about a bunch of aeronautical engineers who used to have lunch hour races in the big Boeing hangar in Wichita. They would string wires across the big room, and then fly CO2 capsule powered rockets down the wire on hooks. They made up a rig using car valve springs punching a nail into the capsule end to set them off. They got really competitive, doing all sorts of aerodynamic refinements and smooth finishes and stuff to win races. Heating up the capsules and stuff, all sorts of tricks. One day somebody accidentally launched one with an empty capsule and clocked the same speed, which made them realize it was the valve-spring launcher doing the pushing all along!

I THINK that has something to do with this? Maybe not.
Anyway...ask MEC how hard it was to go up to 300mph, and how hard it is to make small gains at such high speeds. I'm not accusing anyone of lying...just think they have a really inaccurate measurement there.

IS a police hand held radar unit accurate at these speeds? If so, it would be relatively easy to get a local police officer to pass by the club during the speed runs and radar you.

If it isnt accurate at these speeds then what about an on board airspeed indicator? I thought these were relatively inexpensive and available for models?

AJC

I think it depends what radar gun and who is operating it.
MEC said above that he got some wild readings with the GPS.
If he used radar AND gps and got similar, I would be more inclined to beleive it.

the first plane flew 385, 393, 395km/h
the second flew 450, 454, 455, 470, 481km/h
the third one flew 551,571, 576km/H

if you get these almost similar numbers it is correct.

look at the size of a bandit to get 300mph!
look at the size of my plane.
wing span is 100cm/39.5inches
length is 120cm/47 inches.
this planes is very small compared to a bandit!
look at the images of this thread at the first page. you can compared to a hot spot.
it is small.
the engine I use is similar to PJ130 Jakadofsy engine on the bandit.
I have the same power as MEC has with a tiny plane compared to MECs.

wild readings with the GPS:
if you do one single run, you should be sceptic.
but if you do a series of runs, all in a similar speed/reading range, I would not doubt the readings.

mec

Sorry Niels, but since I was more interested in watching the vids, I never paid much attention to very slight differences in the models. Especially when all three (?) are painted EXACTLY alike. You have to admit, very few people paint multiple models exactly the same. I figured you just had a 5 gallon bucket each of pink and green and were trying to get rid of it! The only difference I noted was that a couple of pictures show a cowled engine. Knowing that you changed power plants, I didn't dig further looking for even more differences.

BTW, again, I'm just interested in how you got to 350 mph. Nothing more.

John

You are correct. That was my question. Your reply that he changed engines did not answer the question. In fact, it wasn't even an attempt to answer the question.

Again, was there any noticeable change in speed by merely modifying the clamps? I'm curious, because the clamps are so large you can easily see them when the model is on final. Seems to me they would create a huge amount of drag when flying at close to 300 mph. So, again, for the forth time. Did the exposed clamps slow the model down. If so, by how much?

Sarcasm? No, not this time. Just asking a simple question and looking for an answer to that question.

John

Hi John,
actually I really don´t know.
All meassured flights with number two up to 455 km/h were done with 120.000 RPM.
The flight with 470 km/h and 481km/h was done with 123.000 RPM and turned clamps.
The extra speed probably had two reasons.
The higher RPM and the changed clamps.
And the colours are very important. Again in my opinon this is the best combination of colours for high distances flights.
It doesn´t make sense if you paint a plane in camouflage and try to fly far away.
Niels

Niels,
Fair enough, I understand.

Camo plane? Isn't that a scale F-15 paint scheme

Keep flying them fast. Let us know when you have a video of a 350 mph + run!

John

V-max...saw the video. There is no way on earth that the plane in the video is going that fast, my friends prop driven Magnum is faster than that. Perhaps your GPS was set on IPS "inches per second" whatever your measuring its wrong.

One of the dumber things I've ever seen on this site.

Now the claim is that a few pixels of video is a better measurement for speed than on-board GPS. .........Riiiiiighhht!

I've been working the flightline at jet meets for the better part of 10 years. Standing out there all day I've seen some fast stuff. That one shot of the trance arcing back past the parking area looks pretty fast. But then, it's just video - without 3d reference, I can't tell, and niether can you.

Get a grip. Must be a troll.

John....you tool...it was a JOKE!!!

Hmm. Wasn't too obvious, like if you'd used one of those easy to apply smileys somewhere in there. Now I need to take a poll:

Is johng a tool?

o Yes
o No
o Only at the field


PS - turbodog chases the sheep off the flying field, but it's not for flying!

He wears the requisite boots while doing that, right? David R can enlighten him on this technique, if he is not familiar with it already.

Saw some velcro gloves(velco on the palms) once - but that's cheating!

@turbodog

man,
are you blind?
the jet in the video flys max 245mph.
read everything again!!!!!!!!! or at least post # 26
I konw by myself that the jet in the video doesn´t fly 350+ mph
pay close attention!!!!!
Niels

JWN,

Small point, you asked if the speed increase was JUST due to modifying the clamps. That's why I mentioned the engine change.

John I would love to entertain your comments however people like you who hide behind your computers crack me up. Never in a million years would you say that to my face. Anyway, I read what VMax wrote and it makes sense. So John in the future try to be a little less derogitory with your verbage, it will catch up with you sooner or later.

As far as GPS goes.....
There are about 5 different types of bands that come off them satelites, military uses A/B band which is accurate to about 7 meters and about 1% error on calculations....Civilians with store bought gps units use C-band which can have up to 150ft of error and 15% error on calulations with built in erroneus data thrown in just to make it even worse. Im not sure i'd believe anything as far as a speed calulation comin from a walmart gps unit.


My 0.02

B1, is the error constant over speed ranges? In other words, if the dude has a Walmart GPS unit, can he simply go for a ride in a car with a known to be accurate speedometer, check the GPS at a given speed, and then infer that accuracy upon the 350 mph reading?