BVM EDF
03-05-2006 | 06:12 PM
#101
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From: Kyoto, JAPAN
RE: BVM EDF
cheap jet get a jet joe not hold candle to jet cat no
electric jet is no no like v2 rocket never here it comming with bad pilot at stics wear helmet duc an cover [X(]
edf futire me scary of bad pilots danger will robeson![X(]
electric jet is no no like v2 rocket never here it comming with bad pilot at stics wear helmet duc an cover [X(]edf futire me scary of bad pilots danger will robeson![X(]
03-05-2006 | 06:22 PM
#102
RE: BVM EDF
I find it odd you want to discuss electric jets in this forum when you have a forum just for this.
Personally, I could care less what BVM flies! There are better products out there.
Personally, I could care less what BVM flies! There are better products out there.
03-05-2006 | 06:29 PM
#103
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RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: uncleTom
I find it odd you want to discuss electric jets in this forum when you have a forum just for this.
Personally, I could care less what BVM flies! There are better products out there.
I find it odd you want to discuss electric jets in this forum when you have a forum just for this.
Personally, I could care less what BVM flies! There are better products out there.
03-05-2006 | 06:31 PM
#105
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RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: uncleTom
I find it odd you want to discuss electric jets in this forum when you have a forum just for this.
Personally, I could care less what BVM flies! There are better products out there.
I find it odd you want to discuss electric jets in this forum when you have a forum just for this.
Personally, I could care less what BVM flies! There are better products out there.
03-05-2006 | 06:35 PM
#106
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From: Kyoto, JAPAN
RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
Seems like an awful LOT of guys find the subject interesting, feel free to tune out. I mean, it's not like it's CONTAMINATING you or anything. All you have to do is NOT CLICK ON THIS THREAD and you will be just fine, no?
ORIGINAL: uncleTom
I find it odd you want to discuss electric jets in this forum when you have a forum just for this.
Personally, I could care less what BVM flies! There are better products out there.
I find it odd you want to discuss electric jets in this forum when you have a forum just for this.
Personally, I could care less what BVM flies! There are better products out there.
03-05-2006 | 07:54 PM
#108
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From: Barefoot Bay,
FL
RE: BVM EDF
I hear BV can walk on water and has the recipe for turning lead into virgins 
I saw the jet in question at FJ myself. Nice, unremarkable. Notable others have done more with less.
Leonard
I saw the jet in question at FJ myself. Nice, unremarkable. Notable others have done more with less.Leonard
03-05-2006 | 09:02 PM
#110
My Feedback: (24)
RE: BVM EDF
This is a funny thread. There is so much speculation in here as to what BV is doing and why its the way to do it or not, etc., etc., and then you wonder why BV keeps it under wraps. He just doesn't want people to speculate and form ideas about how well his product will work until its ready for production. According to him, things are still changing daily and he doesn't want folks to think its locked in. When its in production, you'll for sure be able to see it all...
When its ready, doubtless it will be expensive, and yes, there probably will be higher performance systems for experienced electric types who want to build up their own. However, I have no doubt that the system will work well in his airframes and will be an alternative for those who want to purchase a turn-key electric system that has BVM engineering and support.
I believe that the Viper and F-86 system/airframes will be first, but doubtless others like the T-33/F-80 are good candidates as well and will probably follow...
Bob
When its ready, doubtless it will be expensive, and yes, there probably will be higher performance systems for experienced electric types who want to build up their own. However, I have no doubt that the system will work well in his airframes and will be an alternative for those who want to purchase a turn-key electric system that has BVM engineering and support.
I believe that the Viper and F-86 system/airframes will be first, but doubtless others like the T-33/F-80 are good candidates as well and will probably follow...
Bob
03-05-2006 | 09:29 PM
#111
RE: BVM EDF
here is some more info on the BVM EDF ventures ... Bob Fiorenze had a small EDF version of his t-38 set up around and with the BVM EDF fan at FLJ ... the plane was in one of the tents way in the back row, and did not fly, but just an example of other aplications for the BVM EDF system.
Wojtek
Wojtek
03-05-2006 | 11:01 PM
#113
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From: Tulsa, OK
RE: BVM EDF
I feel BV is getting in the market at the right time.
I for one had considered a turbine until I looked at cost, finding a location to fly and the waiver issue. The waiver issue is the main reason I won't go to a turbine. After flying high performance aircraft including pattern and pylon racing for 38 years, being told I had to have someone hold my hand to learn to fly a turbine was it. I am also afraid the noise issue with turbines will rear its ugly head like with glow and gas over the years. Don't won't to invest a huge sum in a turbine setup to find out I can't fly it without having to drive to Timbuktu.
I started flying smaller (Mini480)EDF a year ago after having good success with an electric pattern plane. The electric stuff just works if you pay attention to details and no mess when done(glow or kerosene). Now I am planning a 120mm EDF based on an older high performance DF after success with the other electrics. The high performance electric stuff is not cheap, but it is quite a bit less expensive than turbines when you look at total package costs.
What BV will bring to the market is plug and play for the average person. That is what he does well. It will cost, but it will work.
Jeff
I for one had considered a turbine until I looked at cost, finding a location to fly and the waiver issue. The waiver issue is the main reason I won't go to a turbine. After flying high performance aircraft including pattern and pylon racing for 38 years, being told I had to have someone hold my hand to learn to fly a turbine was it. I am also afraid the noise issue with turbines will rear its ugly head like with glow and gas over the years. Don't won't to invest a huge sum in a turbine setup to find out I can't fly it without having to drive to Timbuktu.
I started flying smaller (Mini480)EDF a year ago after having good success with an electric pattern plane. The electric stuff just works if you pay attention to details and no mess when done(glow or kerosene). Now I am planning a 120mm EDF based on an older high performance DF after success with the other electrics. The high performance electric stuff is not cheap, but it is quite a bit less expensive than turbines when you look at total package costs.
What BV will bring to the market is plug and play for the average person. That is what he does well. It will cost, but it will work.
Jeff
03-06-2006 | 09:13 AM
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From: Southam, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: BVM EDF
If I was able to take a count of all the Jet type manufacturing companies that started when someone first thought of it, and look at whose in it now, one name would be there pretty much from the beginning until now.
I got the tour of the factory and was hosted by Uncle Bob and in the short time I met him, I realised one thing. He doesn't do this for fun but probably gets enjoyment out of it, he is looking to make money and pass this on to his family in due course, as I suspect he will never retire.
ET will agree with me, the death knell of most good British inventions was the arrogance that it did not need to evolve and change, and adapt to marker pressures. BV on the ohter hand ismuch smarter than that. Yes you pay a premium for his products, but that does not make them bad value when you consider that they all work and hit the mark. Sure some standards vary from time to time, but consistently the products perform.
Its a bit like a Heptathlon event. To win, you need to be good at everything and consistent, some may be better at running and jumping, but your pretty good at them all.
Everything he does is researched, his is a champion of marketing in this sector, he is the master of a comment here and there, and he in my view is stubborn, mind made up and on he goes, hang the consequences.
It is of no surprise to me at all that with EDF at the level of development that it is, then he can jump in and sustain his business, whether he mixes current available products, has others build items for him, or does it all himself, you will find a working product, in good order that is pretty good at everything, but not the quickest, lightest, greatest duration etc etc.
If wanted to be buy shares in a model venture, I would buy BV shares, not all shareholding is done for popularity but for solid consistent performance.
I hope he and remember there are a number of good people at BV, does push some boundaries, finds a new way improves on engineering etc, it will give everyone fresh impetus to beat him.
With a shed full still to build, I look forward to the outcome, and yes, for me, I would find it easier to go for the BV package of goodies, the "Go Fly" price, as its all in the box...
Gazzer
I got the tour of the factory and was hosted by Uncle Bob and in the short time I met him, I realised one thing. He doesn't do this for fun but probably gets enjoyment out of it, he is looking to make money and pass this on to his family in due course, as I suspect he will never retire.
ET will agree with me, the death knell of most good British inventions was the arrogance that it did not need to evolve and change, and adapt to marker pressures. BV on the ohter hand ismuch smarter than that. Yes you pay a premium for his products, but that does not make them bad value when you consider that they all work and hit the mark. Sure some standards vary from time to time, but consistently the products perform.
Its a bit like a Heptathlon event. To win, you need to be good at everything and consistent, some may be better at running and jumping, but your pretty good at them all.
Everything he does is researched, his is a champion of marketing in this sector, he is the master of a comment here and there, and he in my view is stubborn, mind made up and on he goes, hang the consequences.
It is of no surprise to me at all that with EDF at the level of development that it is, then he can jump in and sustain his business, whether he mixes current available products, has others build items for him, or does it all himself, you will find a working product, in good order that is pretty good at everything, but not the quickest, lightest, greatest duration etc etc.
If wanted to be buy shares in a model venture, I would buy BV shares, not all shareholding is done for popularity but for solid consistent performance.
I hope he and remember there are a number of good people at BV, does push some boundaries, finds a new way improves on engineering etc, it will give everyone fresh impetus to beat him.
With a shed full still to build, I look forward to the outcome, and yes, for me, I would find it easier to go for the BV package of goodies, the "Go Fly" price, as its all in the box...
Gazzer
03-06-2006 | 09:32 AM
#116
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From: Pasadena, MD
RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: rhklenke
EXACTLY!
Bob
ORIGINAL: nxtdoor
I feel BV is getting in the market at the right time.
[snip]
What BV will bring to the market is plug and play for the average person. That is what he does well. It will cost, but it will work.
Jeff
I feel BV is getting in the market at the right time.
[snip]
What BV will bring to the market is plug and play for the average person. That is what he does well. It will cost, but it will work.
Jeff
Bob
Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to BV's new power system. I have a Maverick in the box waiting.
Kirk
03-06-2006 | 09:41 AM
#117
Banned
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RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: Gazzer
If I was able to take a count of all the Jet type manufacturing companies that started when someone first thought of it, and look at whose in it now, one name would be there pretty much from the beginning until now.
I got the tour of the factory and was hosted by Uncle Bob and in the short time I met him, I realised one thing. He doesn't do this for fun but probably gets enjoyment out of it, he is looking to make money and pass this on to his family in due course, as I suspect he will never retire.
ET will agree with me, the death knell of most good British inventions was the arrogance that it did not need to evolve and change, and adapt to marker pressures. BV on the ohter hand ismuch smarter than that. Yes you pay a premium for his products, but that does not make them bad value when you consider that they all work and hit the mark. Sure some standards vary from time to time, but consistently the products perform.
Its a bit like a Heptathlon event. To win, you need to be good at everything and consistent, some may be better at running and jumping, but your pretty good at them all.
Everything he does is researched, his is a champion of marketing in this sector, he is the master of a comment here and there, and he in my view is stubborn, mind made up and on he goes, hang the consequences.
It is of no surprise to me at all that with EDF at the level of development that it is, then he can jump in and sustain his business, whether he mixes current available products, has others build items for him, or does it all himself, you will find a working product, in good order that is pretty good at everything, but not the quickest, lightest, greatest duration etc etc.
If wanted to be buy shares in a model venture, I would buy BV shares, not all shareholding is done for popularity but for solid consistent performance.
I hope he and remember there are a number of good people at BV, does push some boundaries, finds a new way improves on engineering etc, it will give everyone fresh impetus to beat him.
With a shed full still to build, I look forward to the outcome, and yes, for me, I would find it easier to go for the BV package of goodies, the "Go Fly" price, as its all in the box...
Gazzer
If I was able to take a count of all the Jet type manufacturing companies that started when someone first thought of it, and look at whose in it now, one name would be there pretty much from the beginning until now.
I got the tour of the factory and was hosted by Uncle Bob and in the short time I met him, I realised one thing. He doesn't do this for fun but probably gets enjoyment out of it, he is looking to make money and pass this on to his family in due course, as I suspect he will never retire.
ET will agree with me, the death knell of most good British inventions was the arrogance that it did not need to evolve and change, and adapt to marker pressures. BV on the ohter hand ismuch smarter than that. Yes you pay a premium for his products, but that does not make them bad value when you consider that they all work and hit the mark. Sure some standards vary from time to time, but consistently the products perform.
Its a bit like a Heptathlon event. To win, you need to be good at everything and consistent, some may be better at running and jumping, but your pretty good at them all.
Everything he does is researched, his is a champion of marketing in this sector, he is the master of a comment here and there, and he in my view is stubborn, mind made up and on he goes, hang the consequences.
It is of no surprise to me at all that with EDF at the level of development that it is, then he can jump in and sustain his business, whether he mixes current available products, has others build items for him, or does it all himself, you will find a working product, in good order that is pretty good at everything, but not the quickest, lightest, greatest duration etc etc.
If wanted to be buy shares in a model venture, I would buy BV shares, not all shareholding is done for popularity but for solid consistent performance.
I hope he and remember there are a number of good people at BV, does push some boundaries, finds a new way improves on engineering etc, it will give everyone fresh impetus to beat him.
With a shed full still to build, I look forward to the outcome, and yes, for me, I would find it easier to go for the BV package of goodies, the "Go Fly" price, as its all in the box...
Gazzer
I will add this, though:
I have NEVER thought of BVM products as being the "old reliable ford four door" stuff...his stuff, to me, was ALWAYS high performance. A cut above the competition. Much of what you were paying as a premium was worth it, because his stuff was BETTER. And I would say that this solution seems pretty un-BVM-like. But, hey, people will buy it anyway.
And kudos to K. Sonn...for those who think BVM is breaking ANY new ground here, "plug and play" or otherwise, well, you have not been following large EDF development, and it's kind of a slap in the face to the guys who have actually put in the time and the energy and the development for you to suddenly give Bob Violett credit for their work.
03-06-2006 | 09:48 AM
#118
My Feedback: (24)
RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: k_sonn
That's not excatly true. "Plug and Play" has been around the EDF market for years for the 90mm and smaller fans. Schubler's DS-30 and DS-51 fans can be purchased with Lehner motors already installed. Airframes are readily available for these fans. All one needs to do is solder connectors on the motor and controller and install the fan in the airframe. In the 120mm arena, "plug and play" is available from Schubler in the form of purchasing the DS-94 fan/motor/ESC as a combo. The hardest part about converting a GDF to an EDF is making an intake extension out of 1/64th ply so the intake transitions from the GDF fan opening to the EDF fan. That takes about 5 minutes and no special skill is needed (the "average" person can do this). It is much more difficult to convert a GDF to turbine than it is to convert to EDF.
Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to BV's new power system. I have a Maverick in the box waiting.
Kirk
That's not excatly true. "Plug and Play" has been around the EDF market for years for the 90mm and smaller fans. Schubler's DS-30 and DS-51 fans can be purchased with Lehner motors already installed. Airframes are readily available for these fans. All one needs to do is solder connectors on the motor and controller and install the fan in the airframe. In the 120mm arena, "plug and play" is available from Schubler in the form of purchasing the DS-94 fan/motor/ESC as a combo. The hardest part about converting a GDF to an EDF is making an intake extension out of 1/64th ply so the intake transitions from the GDF fan opening to the EDF fan. That takes about 5 minutes and no special skill is needed (the "average" person can do this). It is much more difficult to convert a GDF to turbine than it is to convert to EDF.
Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to BV's new power system. I have a Maverick in the box waiting.
Kirk
Bob
03-06-2006 | 09:49 AM
#119
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RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: rhklenke
You're kind'a missing the point. I'm an average jet guy and I have no idea where to get that stuff, what size/weight airframe is good for a 90mm fan vs. a 120mm fan, what batteries to get, etc. I could do the research and figure it out myself (I'm not into the electric stuff right now except for the smaller Alfa models types), but with a BV setup (when its ready), its one-stop shopping. Take a look at the number of BVM customers who have someone else build their Kingcat/Bobcat and you'll see that there is a market out there for truely "plug-and-play" electric jets - particularly if he can get the Viper AND some of his smaller scale jets going well with an EDF setup.
Bob
ORIGINAL: k_sonn
That's not excatly true. "Plug and Play" has been around the EDF market for years for the 90mm and smaller fans. Schubler's DS-30 and DS-51 fans can be purchased with Lehner motors already installed. Airframes are readily available for these fans. All one needs to do is solder connectors on the motor and controller and install the fan in the airframe. In the 120mm arena, "plug and play" is available from Schubler in the form of purchasing the DS-94 fan/motor/ESC as a combo. The hardest part about converting a GDF to an EDF is making an intake extension out of 1/64th ply so the intake transitions from the GDF fan opening to the EDF fan. That takes about 5 minutes and no special skill is needed (the "average" person can do this). It is much more difficult to convert a GDF to turbine than it is to convert to EDF.
Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to BV's new power system. I have a Maverick in the box waiting.
Kirk
That's not excatly true. "Plug and Play" has been around the EDF market for years for the 90mm and smaller fans. Schubler's DS-30 and DS-51 fans can be purchased with Lehner motors already installed. Airframes are readily available for these fans. All one needs to do is solder connectors on the motor and controller and install the fan in the airframe. In the 120mm arena, "plug and play" is available from Schubler in the form of purchasing the DS-94 fan/motor/ESC as a combo. The hardest part about converting a GDF to an EDF is making an intake extension out of 1/64th ply so the intake transitions from the GDF fan opening to the EDF fan. That takes about 5 minutes and no special skill is needed (the "average" person can do this). It is much more difficult to convert a GDF to turbine than it is to convert to EDF.
Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to BV's new power system. I have a Maverick in the box waiting.
Kirk
Bob
03-06-2006 | 10:16 AM
#120
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From: Southam, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: BVM EDF
Who invented the phrase "Go - Fly Package"....
Mind he did omit Aeropoy not included!!![:@] But then put it on the marketing flyer
ET,
I did not mean that BV was reliable, but quality and steady, the difference between a Porsche and a Lamborghini Both darn good but one a little more consistant than the other![sm=thumbup.gif]
And I would buy one!
Gazzer
Mind he did omit Aeropoy not included!!![:@] But then put it on the marketing flyer
ET,
I did not mean that BV was reliable, but quality and steady, the difference between a Porsche and a Lamborghini
Both darn good but one a little more consistant than the other![sm=thumbup.gif]And I would buy one!
Gazzer
03-06-2006 | 11:16 AM
#121
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From: Ft Wayne, IN
RE: BVM EDF
ORIGINAL: Gazzer
..... he is the master of a comment here and there, and he in my view is stubborn, mind made up and on he goes, hang the consequences.
Gazzer
..... he is the master of a comment here and there, and he in my view is stubborn, mind made up and on he goes, hang the consequences.
Gazzer
Signed
Disappointed in Ft Wayne.
03-06-2006 | 09:52 PM
#124
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From: Tulsa, OK
RE: BVM EDF
Plug and play is only available in fans and some smaller airframes. You are also currently fairly limited on availability. BV will bring plug and play in a size package that is more acceptable to the average flier and it will be in stock more than likely. The 90mm sized and smaller planes are not as attractive to most fliers. Weight is very critical on 90mm and under sized planes meaning in some cases bungy launching. That is were the size issue becomes important to the average flier. While I and others are willing to watch weights to get them to fly well, the average flier does not like to mess with issues such as this. Being able to assemble or build an edf that you can drop standard size radio gear and retracts, etc, into is where the larger edf's start to build the market.
While some in this forum may think this thread is hilarious, I feel it means people are starting to look for alternatives to the problems associated with turbines, i.e., high cost, waiver issues, and possible problems with flying sites.
Jeff
While some in this forum may think this thread is hilarious, I feel it means people are starting to look for alternatives to the problems associated with turbines, i.e., high cost, waiver issues, and possible problems with flying sites.
Jeff
03-06-2006 | 10:15 PM
#125
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From: Florissant,
MO
RE: BVM EDF
Yes you are right here is a video of my 10lb EDF model just barely ROG with a motor and fan package that has been around for some years. 90mm
http://www.kcox.rchomepage.com/videos/Rhino.wmv
And here is one with an EDF airframe that is about 7 years old and it just barely got off this dirt field. Using off the self motor and fan unit. 90mm
http://www.kcox.rchomepage.com/videos/Plenum1.wmv
http://www.kcox.rchomepage.com/videos/Rhino.wmv
And here is one with an EDF airframe that is about 7 years old and it just barely got off this dirt field. Using off the self motor and fan unit. 90mm
http://www.kcox.rchomepage.com/videos/Plenum1.wmv
