Hi everyone,

Sometime near the end of March, we will be holding a Jet Rally in Los Angeles. We are thinking about setting up a system whereby the new AMA provisional waiver can be granted. We are trying to get some feedback about potential interest for this.

In accordance with AMA Document 567, we are contemplating running the: “Flight Demonstration Turbine Waiver” Program for Fixed Wing Aircraft. This would include all applicable ground schooling as well.

This involves flying on a buddy box and getting a provisional waiver, good for 60 days. We would provide the plane and a qualified check pilot(s)

We need to know if anyone is interested as we need to get the time allocated outside of the AMA sanction time. We have no firm dates as of yet.

The program is described in

http://modelaircraft.org/templates/a...-files/567.pdf

Regards,

Hi Matt,

I may have a candidate ready by then. I guess the event will be LA Jets at Sepulveda Basin?? Since I am a bit confused by the temp waiver thing, can the paper work for the permanent waiver be completed (signed) at the same time as the temp demo flight??

Thanks, Vin...

This provisional waiver thing is kind of a new thing for us too.

The way I understand it is that the Provisional Waiver becomes active the minute you get the 3 signatures. Nothing gets sent into the AMA at that time. We can do the ground school at the same event for future submittal.

When the candidate is ready to apply his or her regular waiver, they send the Provisional Waiver in with the other materials normally needed (ground school sign off, questionnaire, etc). This has to occur within 60 days of granting of the Provisional Waiver.

We figured we would try it with the new shop Rookie with Mr. Somes on the buddy box sticks (he takes blame very well)

BTW at the Basin we have been having very good luck with Safety Rallies and Fun Flys, we control frequencies and airspace as we will at the Jet Rally. The airspace is a little tight but nothing like some of the places I won't mention here.

I hear a racer got shot down during an organized event the day after my Sabre. A guy and his son started working on a trainer in the pits and turned on, splatting the racer.

I really wish I would have known how terrible it was there before the Sabre loss.

I'll repeat, anybody who cares about their model would have to have their head examined to fly at that zoo.

How can l find out what the basic maneuvers that is required to get turbine waiver thanks to whom ever

In the case of the provisional waiver, the maneuvers are required, not suggested as in the normal waiver process.

The maneuvers are listed in:

http://modelaircraft.org/templates/a...-files/569.pdf


As for the Basin, at the event the frequencies are controlled, the transmitters impounded and the number of aircraft allowed to fly simultaneously is limited to 4.

On any other day the whole place is an honor system and you have to watch each others backs. I have had about 500+ turbine flights in 5 years there on my equipment with no problems.

Tony,

You lost your Sabre? The new one?

Shaun -

Yes...Tony lost the new Sabre. I was spotting for him that day. It was sickening to say the least. Totally avoidable, too!! Some idiot pulled out Tony's frequency pin and replaced it with his own. I see this guy down there all the time. One of these days he's going to find himself (and his ARF) stuffed in a trash can!!!

Spencer Maze
CRCJA

What was the "idiot's response to his actions??
Sorry to hear that terrible news Tony.
Some people!

SD: Per Tony's post in this thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...132#post502218 (post # 8) the court case is today.

Matt - keep us advised how the provisional waiver thing works out.

Gordonn

Matt,

I think it is only fair to let it be known just how dangerous it is at Sepulveda. I still thank the powers that I did not hit one of the golfers on the course it crashed into. Can't imagine how complicated my life would be now if that had happened. And Sepulveda is more surrounded by people and things to hit then any field I have ever seen. If I had any idea of the danger regarding frequency control my jet would never have come out of the van. As to events, I have heard many stories now about frequency problems even during events, so my decision is to avoid Sepulveda like the plague. The main problem, as I now understand it, is that it is a public field and not controlled by a single club. At the rallies I went to last year and the year before, the event started and ended at specific times, and sport fliers were flying before the event start time and were lined up to fly at the end time each day. So there were many tx's out there not involved in the events impound. I know you guys want to hold events, and maybe some will be willing to accept the risk, but those perhaps considering attending need to be fully aware what those risks may be. As much as it would be nice to hold and attend rallies, sometimes the situation is such that it is just not prudent to do so.

The court case was today. My witnesses and I thought it went very well for us, I had a mountain of evidence and he had none. But we were pressed for time and the judge, who seemed to be excellent, did not announce his decision today. I will be sent that soon, I'll let you know what it is. I hope the decision is positive, not so much for any possible monetary award, which in the small claims court we were in will not come close to covering the full loss, but to maybe get the message out that everyone involved at a field must be ready to accept the results of their actions.

Hi Matt,

The AMA procedure for this requires that the applicant/pilot use their own model.

Shortly the AMA will be putting out a checklist for this program to be used by the Event Director, there may also be a few small mods to the procedures. I would keep an eye on the AMA web site for any new info.

Steven Ellzey
President, JPO

Hi Steve,

I know they say that but I wonder why they would care?? I mean what is the rationale.

I will call them maybe it is just a suggestion.

Matt,
Maybe they want the applicant to have the investment in the a/c
and some of the responsibility.

Nat

This is just my guess, but ....

I imagine that the rationale is meant to be that the pilot gets checked on the exact aircraft that he intends to later fly solo (under the provisional waiver), and that the "sign-off flight" is therefore required to demonstrate his ability with that aircraft - not another one that is faster, less stable, is set up with 'wilder' control throws etc.

That's the only reason I can think of.... but for that to make sense, the provisional waiver would presumably also have to state that it covers only that one specific aircraft....

Gordon

Thanks for the update Gordon.
I am really interested to hear what the guy had to say when confronted.
Obviously, no concession was made at the field, or there would be no court case.
Did he just act stupid about it? Was he a newbie claiming to not know better?
This happened to my son (on a smaller scale) at an uncontrolled field. Guy had no idea that there were even different freq's. But, he coughed up 2/3 value on the spot. I let it go at that, as it was an expensive lesson, and I considered it doing my part for the new guy.
Was just interested in hearing what the guy came up with for an excuse.
Tony, hope things work out in your favor...at least as well as they can.

I would be interested in the road trip to get wavered.
food for thought.
i live in las vegas and well, we have a lot of hotels and would be more centrally located to AZ and UT and CA,
we have a very nice field in the desert nothing but open space that could be reserved.
i would be happy to do the leg work, however i've only attended these events and would need a hand in the how toos
regards mike

Tony,

I feel for ya man!!! I've never had anyone "turn on" on me while flying but at a local event several years ago I did have a guy in an electric wheel chair drive himself out on the runway to retreive his plane. My jet went dead stick----I circled as long as I could while screaming before it stalled and crashed. (About 2 1/2 circles) The plane was totaled. How much can you claim in small claims court in CA.? Here in Tennessee it is $15,000.

Matt,

This provisional waiver program is a good one. I'm sure that I'm not alone in saying that you deserve a huge "ATTA BOY" for taking the initiative to get it going in your area. I hope this catches on everywhere next year, swelling our ranks!!!

Kevin

I guess I can see it both ways on this, but I am with Gordon, if the rationale is to limit the 60 day waiver to the specific plane that should be so stated.

It is just easier for us to use the shop plane, less hassles and then we only bang up Wilcox's plane if something goes wrong!!

Hey F-117,

You bring up an interesting point, I do not know why there is not a ralley in Las Vegas, I heard rumours there used to be one, but it would have had to have been 1996 or prior. I think it is a great idea, you just need a club to sponsor it, the jet part is pretty easy to handle.

There was a similar case in small-claims court here in San Diego. In fact it was the first of its kind in San Diego's history. The plaintiff (shoot-down victim) won.

I'm in !!

I'm actually flying down to Lost Wages again today (do it about 5 or 6 times a year). I'll often fly at the club that one of my friends is in - not sure of the club name, but it's about 2 miles from his house which is in Calista Way, LV 89131. I'll try to remember to find out tomorrow when I meet him to go flying.

I think the main reason there isn't a jet meet at Vegas is that there doesn't seem to be that many jet fliers in the area just now, judging from what I am told by the club members I've met there. I know that Pat Richards of Mach2 Jets is down there - maybe he would have a list of other jet fliers in the area and be able to help put something together. Maybe Mach2Jets could even help sponsor and advertise the event, and use it to showcase some of their new models ?

The nearest jet event to Vegas that I know of, is the St. George, Utah meet (about 2 hours drive from Vegas) - last year we stopped by Vegas on the way there & back, and had a great time.

Anyway, if you do get a jet meet going in Vegas, I'm definitely in !
I know a few others who would jump at it too... even if you did more than one per year.

Gordon