ShaneUSMC

My Feedback: (1)

Now that's funny! [sm=lol.gif]
Everything short of breathing is known to cause cancer in the state of California! LOL

Boomerang1

On the subject of dangerous oils I contacted Sara from Wren some time ago (I use a Wren turbine). I have had health problems in the past & am keen to prevent any new ones! I hope Sara does not mind me quoting her.

When asked about Mobil DTE light:

Hello John,

I think the Mobil DTE light was recommended by one of our customers, Phil from Hobbyparts, who has been using it. Wren have been using Castrol TTS synthetic motorcycle oil for over a year, and have started to recommend this to our customers. We used to use marine engine oil (TCW3) but this is slightly sticky, to coat marine engines against salt corrosion, so we have moved to a less sticky oil.

and further:

I've just seen the thread on RCU about oil and realised that the Mobil DTE light is the GTBA's James Hill's recommendation - Tom Wilkinson will have got that from James, not us. It should be OK though - but we haven't used it.

Castrol TTS is available in Oz from Supercheap Auto, there's a store 5 minutes away from my house so it's a no brainer. - John.

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

Breathing California air(SMOG) dosn't cause cancer???????????????????

doug l

hi david
worked on the R/R SPRAY(he he)spay..
metered oil system as you say..
the point is,no turbine oil is ment to burn..period..it gets to tail pipe by old tech., and cheap design..
look in tail pipes of all old and modern turbines after shut down and notice how wet they are..
that aint fuel..check hour after shut down and notice oil dripping off reversers or tail cone.
only oil ment to burn after doing their job are two stroke..
as you say..that dont make it right..
california is ready to BAN all 2 strokes right now...
we used to wash our hande in mek and tri-cloretholine in the 60s and 70s before we knew better...
used to wash grey exhaust staines off a/c that burnt 115/145 av gas with bare hands and mek..found out years later it was tetraethel lead..poison..

now i know why i play with small size real planes...haaaaaa

FL510

My Feedback: (8)

Modern turines do not burn oil. If oil is lost at a certain quart/hour the engine has to come off and seals replaced. The oil systems on turbines do not expose the oil to the heat of combustion, not to say it doesn't get hot, a garrett 731 runs about 90c. Carbon seals in a turbine are not the greatest seal all the time, when seals leak the cabin fills with smoke. I had happen twice in a month's time. Man, everything in aviation is life threatening, even the choclate chip cookies at the FBO, those will plug arteries. I'm DOOMED!

FL510

My Feedback: (8)

Had another toxic thought, not used on models, but who knows. If skydrol is ever mentioned for hydraulic fluid, look out! For those who dont know it's used in larger aircrafts and cessna for fluid. The man that created it, used to drink it as a demo, saying it was created from vegetable extracts, and that it was harmless. He's DEAD!

geneh-RCU

My Feedback: (6)

How much Castrol TTS does WREN say that you should use in 5 Gallons of Fuel?
Is it the same amount as if you were using turbine oil?

Boomerang1

geneh-RCU, they did not specify anything in that conversation. But in the instructions for my engine (Supersport) it states 3% oil be it turbine oil or 2 stroke oil. I mixed my TTS at 3% - John.

David Gladwin

I was going to mention Skydrol but as we don't use it in model aviation (not that I know of) I decided not to BUT you are dead right its lethal stuff to be avoided at all costs. I well remember doing the VC 10 ground school with BOAC, thats the FIRST thing they told us on the hydraulics section, the VC10 used Skydrol, avoid it, its dangerous stuff and a very effective paint stripper. It will, irrevocably, damage the cornea of the eye if splashed and the immediate treatment is copious irrigation with clean water. Years ago, concerned at the hazard of this fluid I recommended that an eyewash, ( sterile saline solution was the medical remedy proposed by my wife, an airline, Pan Am, nurse) , be placed on all of our aircraft in case of eye contamination and the correct first aid procedure was incorporated into our ops manual, its still there. In addition to that I would never go into the wheel wells of a 737 on walkround when the hyd systems were pressurised. (the pumps and reservoir are in there ) in the event of a leak a faceful of hyd fluid at 3000 psi could be seriously hazardous.

Its interesting to note that many aircraft stands at Australian airports have an eye/face wash facility for first aid treatment in the event of eye or facial contamination.

Thank you very much indeed for raising the issue, I had no idea Skydrol was used in Cessnas.

Regards, David Gladwin.

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

Skydraul is the most heinous stuff made, and horribly toxic. It causes permanent nerve damage too if you are exposed to enough of it. A major airline I previously flew for had a whole bunch of MD-80's and for some reason the APU's (small turbine engine in the tail to power aux equipment) was alledgedly sucking in misted skydraul (from a badly placed HYD pump) into the pneumatic supply when running the air conditioning at the gate to cool the aircraft. Not all aircraft, but some. It was a big flap, many flight attendants claimed severe injury over time and were convinced their symptoms would be aggrevated when flying on certain tail number MD-80's, etc. One time I was operating one of these certain known aircraft and the ladies in back were going nuts and saying they smelled skydraul. So I turned off the APU immediately and went into the tail section to investigate. It was like a bad horror film - the guy who "investigates" always gets hosed. I opened the door to the tailcone area and immediately felt misted fluid and smelled a nasty substance. Thank god I didn't breathe too deeply and had my sunglasses on just in case. The airplane was grounded for the day - the whole back end had to be cleaned up. Needless to say I washed up immediately but had one hell of a headache afterward for about an hour. Not sure if it was just a mental reaction to the flap or a seriously physical reaction to this day but it's bad stuff.

Bob_B

My Feedback: (11)

Is breathing the fumes of unburnt K1/Aero Shell just as bad?
I usually keep my UAT full and I notice the fuel smell whenever I am in close proximity to my model is this just as hazardous? This has me thinking???????????????
Thanks, Bob

747drvr

My Feedback: (5)

If the handling of turbine oil and breathing the burnt fumes is hazardous to our health , there should be a push by the manufacturers to find and endorse a safer product . So far a few manufacturers have offered alternatives such as Wren suggesting Castrol TTS synthetic motorcycle 2 stroke oil . There has also been Mobil DTE Light offered as a safer ( and less expensive ) alternative to turbine oil.

People will generally not stray from the recommended oils for fear of voiding their warranty . I have a feeling we're just using turbine oil because it's what was first used , it worked , and not much thought was given to it after that. I would love to see all turbine manufacturers do some experimentation and offer a safer alternative to turbine oil.

Marc

Bob_B

My Feedback: (11)

Great point Marc! I hope the JetCat people are reading this thread.

charlieoneseven

My instructions for the MK III autostart say 2 1/2% in one part and 3 % oil in another but 2 cycle premix oil either way.
Having worked on MD-80 and MD-11 both use Skydrol and the company had outside shower heads with a big pull chain in case someone got sprayed. On the C-17 the hydro fluid is based on veggie oil and is not a burning experiance (like paint stripper) like Skydrol was. We use sealants that have major health risks and cause Cancer AKA Zepher
Health issues can vary with each person but Zepher kills everyone equally. Use gloves, resperator and safety glasses or shield when mixing fuels and keep it out of the house at all times.

David Gladwin

All good stuff guys and we can all benefit from the experience of others. I think the lesson from all this , and indeed all safety discussions, is that we can keep on enjoying this superb hobby much as we do but with a few tweeks in the way that we do things we can vastly improve safety of operations, look after our health for ourselves and third parties.

Regards, David Gladwin.