Hi SK!

I heard someone say that he heard from another guy.... sounds like rumors to me. And I heard from ACT about two years ago, that the twin-module is almost ready to sell.....

Dual-frequency: With the Seatronic set-up, I think it is just a matter of prgramming to use two frequencys. But by now, the dual-frequency is only available for Graupners MC-24, so why should someone sell a matching rx, if there are just a handfull guys using that technology?

@ GordonMc: Well, you are absolutely right. If one function fails, the whole unit fails. I haven't had a single failure in one of my jets the last 4 years (knock on wood). But if something fails on the field, I wouldn't have a spare-part. If you have a spare reciever, spare match-box, spare Powerbox and spare gyro, you could have a spare Weatronic in your trailer

Greetz,

David

I most certainly took no offense, not for one second. I do entirely agree with you that dual FREQUENCIES is the ultimate, the Holy Grail, and I have made that point in part 2 of my RCJI Weatronic review. However, at the moment the Weatronic works on a single frequency but is an exceptionally competent and comprehensive piece of avionics, AND it is available on 36 MHz. I will certainly take a very close look at the ACT and Emcotec units as and when they become available. As you may know I have no association with any one company but I am continuosly looking for the most reliable and safest radio system for my jets, particularly large complex and expensive machines , both in time and money, such as my FC Mig 29 and AW Hawks.

Regards,

David Gladwin.

Tafieht,

It was not told to me by some friends knowing some people... etc. It is the distributor of ACT that told me the module has been finally granted CE compliance and now ready to ship. But I am trying to verify these informations right now. I know for a fact that this module is at least working for one guy who routinely fly his medium sized jet with it, along with the DPSI-TWIN and so having total redundancy in the RX chain. When I asked him if he could effectively feel the switching of freq occur he told me no he couldn't feel it while flying but could read the switching events when reading from the records of the DPSI-TWIN. And he fly with that setup since several years now but not at meetings or wide attented event. Not sure why, maybe because the module was not officially made compliant. I think what ACT has been doing is take the same HF Module (They bought the rights for it) and try to make it compliant and produce it on a industrial basis. That is why it take so much time I guess.

As for your second parapgraph I don't understand it. You mean the Weatronic module right ? Also I didn't get your "so why should someone sell a matching RX" point ? I don't think any of thoses twin HF modules have proprietary RX's ??? You can in fact use whatever RX you like ?

About the fact that theses modules are now only proposed for MC-24 well that is shortcoming but I guess that if it can be done for a MC-24 and a FC28 it can be done for more TX's
(I think the issue there is the TX ability to deliver the amps to feed the twin-HF module)

Regards
Sk

all this makes interesting reading and puts the cat amongst the pigeons forsure - we appreciate all the input, the research done by all is certainly in the spirit of our hobby - looking forward to more!!

now i have used the powerbox, smartfly and emcotec systems for some time all with good results and never a single failure - i am seriously considering the weatronic unit for my 46% ultimate, 37.5% yak and my saab grippen jet.

all the above reading makes you think - lol

David,

Quote :

"but I am continuosly looking for the most reliable and safest radio system for my jets, particularly large complex and expensive machines"

Unquote

Fine, so we have the same goals here and then I would ask you what do you think of the ACT DSL RX technology ? And about the DPSI-TWIN ? Thoses unites are out since quite some time and I feel we greatly miss feedback about them. Let's forget about the 2freq ops, to compare between Weatronic/DPSI-TWIN and ACT DSL... what would be the best system ?

Regards
Sk

Well I now have the Emco system manual and taken a look at their web site. Yes it looks a good system BUT has some immediate shortcomings:

It is only an 8 channel unit.
If using two frequencies it APPEARS that they must be on separate bands, eg 35 and 40 (40 is only for surface models in UK). Its not offered on 36 MHz. but perhaps the frequencies are defined by the actual receivers, not clear on that yet. They do not offer a single, dual frequency, HF unit which can be plugged into, say, a 10x.

At 369 Euros to which must be added the cost of the two receivers, it is no significantly cheaper than the Weatronic DR which in its current form still offers a vastly greater range of facilities than the Emcotec.

I will research further. inc the ACT DSL system In the meantime I am committing to the Weatronic system.

Regards,

David Gladwin

Just a precision about the DPSI twin it does not request a seperate band if using two freq's, well in fact it depends which twin HF module you would be using. If you would choose the Emcotec twin HF module then yes you would need to plug two different band rx's. If you would choose the ACT twin HF module then you could plug to rx's in the same band. This is specified by the TX not the RX. As said before I don't think any of the 2 systems use proprietary RX's so you could use ACT twin HF module to run DPSI-TWIN. For the 8 channel limitation I wonder about if this is an issue in case of interference that you would be unable to lower your tailhook ? Seriously as long as you have all vital controls plug on those 8 channels and the remaining channels on either rx directly I don't see it as a BIG shortcoming but again this is a fact and I don't discuss it.

Regards
Sk

Hi baron-noir!

If you had ever programmed a jet like david's AW Hawk or the MiG29, you would see the point. The Emcotec still needs a lot or mechanical set-up or a handfull of magic-boxes, which the Weatronic and ACT's DSl have "build in". The next point is, that there is actually no twin-frequency systeme available for international use. Emcotec is stuck to the (internationally) very rare MC-24, ACT hasn't released the twin-module. That inmind doesn't make a sense to use dual-frequency right now! If - one day - the ACT-module will be available, that will be a great option, as the Graupner-module is exactly the one from JR which is used in their PCM9X and PCM10X, which are almost unknown in europe, but used in hugh numbers around the world. Same smae with the Futaba FC-28 module.

I am sure that Weatronic is able to convert their receivers for future dual-frequency use, as most of it is -as far as I understand - a software/firmware thing. A reason why these guys were able to help out damn quick with buck-fixes.

David

Hi David, if the Weatronic will be capable of 2 freq's operation in the future then it will also have my favour. It would be the best of the 3 systems. More compact, probably more goodies than the ACT DSL or DPSI stuff. Time will tell. I sincerly hope that the ACT module goes out and find it's market because it would bring tremendous added value. Imagine this module tight with a 2 freq's Weatronic unit ?? We hit the Graal !! In case that ACT module is finally available and the Weatronic unit would not be qualified for 2 freq's op's I would favor the DPSI-TWIN and last the ACT DSL system (depending the need for special programation like you says would ne neeed for complicated jets) What I like in the DPSI-TWIN is that it has his own "bad signal qualification process" and does not only rely on a RX failsafe to switch from one RX to the other RX. Imagine one RX fails completely so it won't have any failsafe signal outputs, then the DPSI-TWIN still recognize the failure and switch automatically to the other RX. It also uses the regular failsafe signal from any of the two RX for switching. For the ACT DSL system I dunno how it would react. See plenty of things to see and consider...

As for the TX thing, you can be assured that if a 2 freq's system is coming out only on a TX brand, there is no problem that this TX manufacturer is going to see his sale going stronger. I'm sure people would change TX just to have this feature.

Regards
Sk

The Emcotec DPSI-TWIN is a nice unit. I will switch to the Weatronic or the ACT (most likely the ACT) when available on my band.

Some people will like the fully integrated Weatronic system, others (like myself) see big advantages to being able to seperate the receivers (and their antennas) remotely in the planes. I can then plug servos into whichever receiver they are closer to.

Also, I am pretty sure the ACT T3S system will allow transmitting on 2 channels right now, on any band in any combination.

Hi Matt, thanks for your feedback. May I ask you if you plan to go for the ACT (most likely you said) for the ACT twin HF-Module or the ACT DSL rx's or both or them ? Thanks for your clarification

Sk

I really didn't care all that much when I only had a 15 minute drive to the field .. no big deal if I had to go home without getting much flying done due to something going wrong. Now that I travel either 200 or 430 miles for each trip to go flying I have learned to standardize my equipment between my planes as much as I can, and carry one spare of each component wherever possible. Fortunately, stuff doesn't fail often, but when it does I can generally work around it in order to minimize the liklihood that I get only 1 flight in exchange for 7 hrs of driving and 43 gallons of gas.

I don't use a powerbox ; only one of my aircraft has a gyro in it, and it can be happily flown without when necessary ; one spare top of the line 10 channel RX and one spare matchbox sets me back $250 - quite a bit less than the $600 or so that a spare Weatronics costs (to say nothing of the cost of buying a laptop to take with me so that the necessary adjustments can be made at the field).

Please don't get me wrong ... I don't mean to put the Weatronics down at all. It sounds like a step in the right direction, and if the cost comes down so that it's more competitive with the cost of the parts I'd be replacing it with, or if I felt the need to use the various features that it has that I currently don't care about, or if it had the dual freq capability, I would give it a try. All I'm saying is that I prefer to assess the pros & the cons for how it fits MY particular requirements, rather than just jump on the "Look - it makes coffee too" bandwagon. Since my requirements no doubt differ from that of other people, everyone must make their own assesment of whether the Weatronics fits their paricular needs.

BTW, where are repairs and service for Weatronics being done, what is the warranty duration, and what sort of turn-around can be expected ? All of these kind of factors weigh into the purchasing decision for me.

Todd - sorry if this isn't directly answering your question, but maybe understanding why some people are ready to buy just now, and why others aren't quite ready yet, could still be of value in helping you make your decisions. Of the options you presented, A2 would be of the most interest to me, but the above reasoning would prevent me from making a purchase at this time.

Gordon

Hi Sk,

Well if the twin frequency module was commercially available for my band, I would use it. Same for the receivers.

But if I can get the recievers, I can use the T3S and two transmitters for the dual frequency uplink, or make something myself like I already have (I have made a dual frequency transmitter already)

Regards,

OK thanks, I'm quite interested in the ACT DSL rx's myself (with DPSD twin batteries alimentation) but I have many pending questions with that system, like the way it qualifies "bad" signals (failsafe from RX only or not ?) I will try to get more details from the manufacturer. I have sent my twin DDS10 rx systems for upgrade to PCM after I receive them I would like to organize some testing.

Regards
Sk

Hi Sk,

Well when I talked to ACT, they were only adding PCM more as a result of cusotmer requests. They felt STRONGLY that their PPM processing algorithm was vastly superior to PCM (kind of like Multiplex IPD I would assume). But I do not have all of the details. Those guys are VERY sharp and I am sure they can answer your questions.

I have played with them (ACT DDS 10s) on the bench and I especially like the Palm OS programming (program the unit at the field with your cell phone!) and the onboard mixing. This will really free up channels!

Hi Matt,

Yes I was'nt really convinced by the PCM upgrade for the DDS10 but I went for it because they were saying that the switching in case of interference is more quick and overall is kind of good idea etc. etc. This positive PCM argument was even more surprising from ACT since if I remember well they were the ones explaining the default of PCM vs. PPM. not too long ago.

Yeah the cell phone programming could be fun !!

Regards
Sk

ACT did update their website with regards to their new twin-freq HF module. This module has apparently now been made compliant with CE rules, so it would be now free of use for anyone on any field in a 35Mhz country.

[link=http://www.acteurope.de/html/rc_dual_frequency_system.html]ACT Twin HF Module[/link]

The complete set for twin freq. operations including the 2 rx's, twin batteries alimentation, programming device (Palm Zire), twin HF-module is sold about 1000€ (without VAT)

Sk

The ACT 2 channel system

I was at Saarland Jet meeting on 26 August and saw this system in operation in Winnie Ohlgarts Rookie. He was using channels 70 and 183 on 35Mhz. He also showed me the Tx RF module which plugged into the MX24 board to replace the old RF module. (I understand that modules are available for other Tx makes). The Rx system has a rather neat bluetooth link to a PDA and the system performance can be interrogated from the touch screen of the PDA.

The system seems to work fine and Winnie demonstrated the Rx performance to me after his flight. ACT will be at Jetpower so anyone going can get more info first hand. I have only just noted the posts about this system, and thought the sceptics might like to hear about it being used.

John

In my larger jets ( KingCat / Eurofighter ) I used the powerbox combination and it worked well. After talking with Jorge at Jets Over Whidbey in August I bought the A2 unit. It arrived last week and I have had a chance to play with it. I absolutely love it. Nice small, compact unit that is easy to program and install! Two receivers, servo synchronization, built in battery redundancy ( using 7.2 volt Nimh packs ) , safety switch, synthesized frequency that tunes very accurately to your transmitter.

Dean Wichmann
www.pstna.com