I do not find this to be the case. Don Desandra, the local NY area JetCat rep told myself as well as several other individuals of the static issues he has been having, as well as a lot of other info on this problem he claimed to receive directly from JetCat. The moment i brought some of this online, the story changed. Don out right started to lie and contradict himself. I do not appreciate being told something by a company rep, and then that rep going and spinning a load of crap, trying to discredit and dismiss what I stated, and all this after HE was the one to tell me all this. I think in the long run behavior of reps like Don is detrimental to the hobby, and not to mention what it does to JetCat’s reputation.


Voy

sorry about your jet malcom k. pablo you are the best drone fighter did you check you,r underware when you got home. tam your new f16 looks like a pregnant guppy the center section it,s way too tall does,nt have that f16 bulge canopy look,s.. it look,s more like a f14 [:'(]

How many times does a guy have to crash before his turbine waiver is put up for review? Take a minute and try to think what would have happened if someone had been flying from that pilot station and was injured or killed.

David

Yes, lets take a minute and really think...If someone had been flying from that pilot station they'd have heard Malcolm call "deadstick". There were also other people there that could have helped the person who "could have been" at that pilot station to move back a few steps if need be. Don't over-dramatize the situation. Just think what would happen if a 4-ton tiddlywink landed on someone's head - they could be injured or killed.

It looks to me like Malcolm did everything he could under the circumstances. A flameout is a flameout - he was immediately upfront about the details of the incident and is actively trying to determine the cause of the flameout. The same thing could have happened (to YOU, or anyone else) if it were a gas or glow powered aircraft - so how does a turbine waiver have anything to do with this situation? Are you tallying the crashes of each turbine waiver holder or something? If you really need an answer to your "question", why don't you email or write the AMA and ask them instead of posting yet another of your bashing and/or inflamatory posts. Seems like a large percentage of your 17 posts have been very similiar - almost trollish, methinks.

Questioning someones ability to safely fly a turbine aircraft, based upon a crash caused by a flameout is ridiculous.

Sorry about the Lightning Malcolm. Chin up, man...

Rusty

Rusty. thank you for your common sense and comments, all too offen these forums are used to bash people and products. none of which is helpful to anyone at all, and it always seems that there is someone waiting to pounce on somebody he dosn't even know and kick him when he is down just for the fun of it.......well my thoughts on crashes like this are the opposite, I had hoped to find a legitimate reason for for a well known popular turbine flaming out at a critical time for no apparent reason, resulting in a monumental loss to me, and a danger to life and limb..... I was able to place together all of the electronics from the Lightning and read the engine data terminal , all of the last flight details like duration of engine run , max rpm , min rpm, etc etc are stored in the ECU and i have downloaded all of that and sent it to Bob Wilcox at Jetcat USa for his interpretation of the last flight engine parameters... I will not comment till he has had a chance to read them.....But i will reiterate that there was no white smoke, that would indicate there was no unburnt fuel passing through the turbine and the last recorded rpm was 124,800 which I believe may be an overspeed.I am broken hearted at the total loss of my airplane ,and I do thank all of the guy's who have phoned me and e-mailed with messages of support and commiseration... they know who they are.....hopefully , something useful will come out of this that may help others not to experience the same problem, .....Malcolm

I currently run (2) big engines, a P-180 in a modified C-A Eurosport and a Pegaus NL on a KingCat.....
I fly off grass about 75% of the time.......asphalt, the rest of the time.....

After reading about the static issues at WJM 2005, I have run both these turbines in the dark at full throttle and never saw any spark or corona around the fuel lines, both Tygon and clear PE tubing, at least not with the aircraft not moving......I have also bench run a new Olympus NL that is going into my UltraBandit, and similarly, no sparks seen.....

With about 250 total flights logged on the big motors since early 2005, zero flameouts........never miss a start....never flameout.......

I am not questioning the anecdotal reports of getting shocks from planes while the motor is running or other forms of static electricity like corona around fuel lines others have seen, just that I personally have not seen these issues.......in the last 4 years, I have had 2 in-the-air flameouts, both brain-fart related.....forgot to re-fuel..........

After 7 years of flying turbines with Tygon and Clear PE tubing, without wrapping my ECU and RX in tinfoil, I see no urgent need to change based upon information available to me at this time.....


Tom

these reports are NOT questionable !! they come right from JetCat and their reps !.. are you saying that their info is questionable ? According to one JetCat rep, they are scrambling to fix these issues and its more or less a trial and error process with no 100% definitive solutions so far. If these issues did not exist, i would not have been told NOT TO FLY MY RAFALE with a P200 in it until at least I had redone the install with the new fuel lines. Because these issues never happened to you, does not mean they do not exist. Fortunately I have never had any issues on my P80, P120, and HP5 engines ... I have however seen others with these problems on a p70, titan, and P180. Also, running the engine on the ground in the dark will not result in sparks even if there is static .. second, the plane is on some sort of surface and potential grounded....


hmmmmmm where is JetCat to comment on all this ?? the silence is deafening , with the occasional thud of yet another crashed plane…

not trying to start anything bad here or bash anyone. I am a long time JetCat user with nearly a dozen engines. I am obviously concerned and wish this could be openly and thoroughly discussed for my own benefit as well as that of others. Im sure Malcolm could have benefited by this as well ... as I understand this was not his first unexplained flame out after takeoff.. I’m sure he would have appreciated having known what was told to me by the NY JetCat rep on Desandra, and how in his conversations with Jet Cat he was told that MANY lightenings were having this problem and how its a really bad issue they are dealing with right now with all the titans and p180 flaming out from static ... now that more Ultra Bandits are getting up in the air, we are going to see issues there as well … just like Don’s Ultra which he claimed to be 99% certain it was a static issue on ( which he later denied of course, but not before telling a good 3 – 4 other people the same thing )

I think it would have been better for JetCat to have just openly put out some sort of advisory on these issues, and just level with the customer base saying they are working on the issues, and what to watch out for.


Wojtek



Wojtek

Voy
Just an observation..
Not to defend JetCat usa, but it is a weekend, and I know the rep who usually monitors RCU is attending a jet rally
Before going on a Witch Hunt(Holloween approching)the Static issue has been around for a while.
First I heard rumor of the static problem (Lighting)was at Az jets 05, then Florida jets which was posted here on RCU. I witnessed this problem(Static) with the lighting which attended Tucson 06, & to my knowledge the lighting was the only a/c there with a static problem. Next was at Ca jets 06 . BVM P80 (Paul P) what power plant i dont know, but the problem was FIXed by spraying "Static cling spray" on the wheels. Again the only a/c with the problem.A lighting did fly a few flights and no problem (power plant ?)
Is this problem only here in the states, prehaps jet fliers in europe or asia chime in. Is it only a JETCAT problem as you imply ?
IMO only time and level headed thinking will take care of the problem.
Semper Fi
Joe

Woj:

Please re-read paragraph 4 of my post.......written in tasty, cheese-head English, I must say........get out your pocket dictionary and review the meaning of (not) questioning, and (anecdotal) evidence before posting a bonafide rant in reply.........I was just adding my little piece of anecdotal evidence, i.e. the P-180, and Peggy NL have been absolutely reliable in my hands for the better part of the last 18 months on the Peggy and the last 6 months with the P-180......

Flying season is getting short up in the north country......just spray that Rafale, nose to tailcone with sweet scented Anti-Static powder, stick a couple of Bounces in the fuse and go fly.......

Matt's recent post on the JetCat website is welcome.....glad I am not in the 0.1% group......

Tom

Tom, i must admit i did miss the "not questioning" in your last post .. I have been receiving quite a couple of emails regarding this topic, many of which unfortunately were negative in nature, some threatening even, and oters accusing me of 100% fabricating everyhting i have written and questioned. ... in a way i guess this is what i have been replying to. My apologies for referencing you in any negative way.... however these reports i would say are not "Anecdotal" as most of which i have heard verified are sourced right from JetCat.




now this is the kind of discussion i was hoping for .... would somehitng like antistatic sheets inside the fuse help prevent static build up and discharge ? I have thought about the anti-static powder , but i hate the idea of getting any sort of "dust" in the plane that could build up over time ... I know that electronics stores also sell negatively charged aerosol sprays that are not accumulative, but i have been told these are of little efect.

For one , i am waiting on the new line which im hoping BVM will be shiping out shortly. I also know a friend resolved his static induced flame out issues by just wrapping the ECU in an anti static wrap.


what else are you guys doing that is working ??



Voy

Woj

You may want to read this: http://www.jetcatusa.com/news.html

Maybe that will help calm you down (Lol)

hey , you know me Ben, I never let ANYTHING go

Very good move by JetCat to publicly address these issue. I hope any other manufacturers experiencing these or other unexplainable issues also come forward in helping find a solution.

Matt answers a lot of questions about the issues in his letter, and provides some VERY GOOD points. I know i will be keeping a lot of these in mind rigging my planes. I’m really looking forward to the up coming Jetpower issues which will hopefully contain more info on this as Matt has indicated.

I was also glad to hear that the ECUs have not changed physically since the 5.0 versions. I had heard through reps that certain new chips may have been used in 5.0 and later contributing to the ECUs susceptibility to take a hit, and aparently this was incorrect information being passed on. I still have some 4.0 ECUs ( all for heli units) which I feel more confident now in getting them updated to 5.0 .

I suspect some time in the near future someone will start a thread dedicated to ESD issues, and maybe we can all collectively and more productively share points and ideas on dealing with this,

all the best ,

Wojtek

Stadis 450, with dinonylnaphthylsulfonic acid is anti-static, sometimes used in commercial jet fuel. Might help. Check with fuel agent, Regards, DG.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I sent all the ecu details to Bob Wilcox he called me back on Monday AM and we went through everything including my radio set up... and it would appear that there is a fact that jetcat users must be made aware of... that is , if you use your turbine with a two channel operation the second channel ( the switch Channel) must be in HOLD in the fale safe programme, not included in the failsafe programme, this is because the second channel is not subject to the 2 second delay that the failsafe throttle channel is , therefore if the receiver takes a hit of any kind or duration, the second channel will switch off the turbine instantly and not allow the turbine to continue for the two second delay.....my particular set up had the second channel included in the failsafe operation and thus the ECU download shows that that there was an instant RC OFF, which shuts down the turbine through the second channel. I have now reprogrammed my failsafe to the second channel to HOLD....too late for my lightning but I hope jetcat users will read this info and act accordingly.....Im told .it is in the manual somewhere......but I can't find it ....this is a possible cause of my dilemma, and a feasable one......dosn't bring my plane back, but it might help in the future.........Malcolm

On the static issue, most full scale fixed and rotary wing aircraft have a very simple device on the trailing edge of the wing to discharge static elec. in flight. Looks a little like a tooth brush. I'm sure all you ex-military types like me have changed a bunch of them. Bob