Hi all, I need all your help in drafting a set of Club rules for flying Jets.
As you all know Safety comes first and when rules are in place and every one abides by them, hopefully you can keep your flying site for a long time.
What are your club rules.
What are some of your rules on
-spotters
-first flights on a new aircraft
-visitors
-flying
-aircraft checkout.
Thanks Rcpete

No special rules for Jets in my club (only AMA ones)

Same here, no special rules. At least that was the case when we actually had a flying site before Katrina! They used our runways as a staging area for trucks hauling debris (mostly tree debris) and we were wiped out.

I assume that we will have the same rules if we ever get another flying site.

I don't think this is a good idea, having a set of rules just for jets. Other than maybe having a designated start-up area and not flying during a no burn period, the AMA/Canadian rules should suffice.

Pete

I agree. Aside from the guidelines for turbine operations in the MAAC rules, we should not have extra rules for turbines.

If you start to set different rules, you create the Turbine phobia. We all know where that leads. We do not want to alienate an aircraft because of its power plant. If there are problems at a field, you should deal with the said pilot, not the aircraft.

Ditto - there are enough AMA special rules for turbines, that the clubs generally don't need any more (unless they want to have a no-turbines during fire-season rule).

For all of the rule categories listed, I see no real reason why turbine ruless should be any different than for other proulsion types.

It has been my experience that it is better to come up with guidelines that you ask the local turbine guys to abide by voluntarily, than to craft extra club rules.

e.g. looking at some of your categories: if you get your fellow jet jocks to voluntarily agree to have another turbine guy to look over your new aircraft before it's maiden, the other club guys who see that tend to look at the jet crowd as "careful, safety-focused guys who go out of their way to ensure that they won't cause an incident" ; conversely if you install a club rule that says "Turbine powered aircraft must be safety inspected ..." then whenever a newbie asks "why is this rule only for turbines?" someone will tell him "It's coz turbines are REALLY dangerous" ... and so the misinformation spreads. Now you have achieved the opposite of what you want ... you've made the average club guy believe that turbines are inherently unsafe ; next stop may well be the club voting to ban these "dangerous" aircraft.

Just use the ones you already have for 33%/40% IMAC airplanes, but then, I'd guess there probably aren't any.

We recently had an incident where a member brought several turbine fliers to the field as guests.
As there was no way in knowing if they had a waiver, I'm suggesting to the officers that any guest turbine fliers be reviewed to insure they have an AMA card and a waiver, and copies of the documentation kept on file, before they're allowed to fly at the field.
It's all about CYA.
Jon

I think there are some things that can be documented in club rules or guidelines that can be taken directly from my experiences at jet rallies, especially when others are flying with you and it may not be another jet. There is a perception problem with jets and that's just the facts of life, but at the same time people want to see the jets fly too. Your better off attempting to include all your fellow members in your jet projects to remove the any fears they may have, especially the governing body. It falls in our laps how we conduct ourselves on the ground and in the air, which is why you should always be prepared when you get to the field.

Check out this picture, this is a sign at a new field near my home. This new field was designed with jets in mind as well, what do you think is their biggest problem?

This is so true. I have been flying at a local field. The guys there are very open to jets and love to see them fly. Usually when a jet goes up, they land. Not out of fear, but the exact opposite. They want to watch it fly. They recently had a jet go in resulting in a small fire in a bean feild. They have not jumped on the "jets are dangerous" band wagon. They realized that the pilot made a mistake and that is the end of it. This is a very good mentality....Do not blame the type of aircraft, look at the facts!

F106A where are you guys flying turbines in NJ?




Alan

I usually wait until there are no prop aircraft in the air, before I fire mine up. If it's a pretty busy day on the flight line, I ask the pilots that are up if they mind flying with a jet in the air. Most of them don't mind, but some prefer that I wait till they're down.

I certainly agree with the majority of the sentiments expressed in this thread. I will discuss a start up area at a strange field but beyond that expect to be treated no different than anyone else flying that day at the event.

Not sure why we would want to single out jets for special rules?

Ron

You guys are totally missing the point!!

If I'm flying my jet, no one else is allowed to fly, Period!![&:]

Now seriously,

Mr. Baker, IMHO, has a very good point. Consideration. By showing other flyers that we care about their flying, they will have more respect for us and our aircraft. Now how do you make this a "club rule"? That could be the hard part.

Airforce7,

I think the 3D guys/gals and people doing low fast passes over the runway are the most put out. Once again I think this brings out the need for considerate flying.

At my first jet meet, before someone fired up, they asked if it was ok go up in about a minute or so (the amount of time it took to fire up a turbine). If anyone was going to start a landing aproach, or was nearing that situation, just said so and we waited. I thought this was very thoughtful. Imagine the added stress of landing your jet with someone just tapping their feet with their turbine on waiting for you....

I'm with Gordon.

Raf

Shouldn't be made a rule. It's just common sense to show consideration to the other guys.

At our field the same thing happens, the prop guys stop flying because they want to see the turbines fly, they see it as a brake from their own flying time.

The only rule that I notice at our field that came up on the frequency board is that all pilots must have a spotter and this happened before our jet meet last year, it is not enforced as it pertained to the jet event last year and it does not specified jets at any moment, but guest what, when ever I'm going up I always get some body to volunteer to spot for me, and some of them are actually waiting to be ask to help with the jet.

Ala,
I fly in PA, about 1.75 hrs from me. There are jet field in NJ, don't know where they are though. The only other alternative is FBF in Brooklyn, but I don't know what the rules are for non club members to fly there. Besides, it's a PITA to get there, and it's $15 in tolls every time you make the trip.
Anyway, I enjoy the trip to PA, pay .75 to cross the Gap, and stay till dark or until the batteries give out.
Also, there's a service station less than a mile away from the field that sells kerosene, so that makes it a great place to fly turbines!
BRG,
Jon

Jon, i am aware of and fly at floyd bennet, i also know of a few fields in NJ. where in PA do you fly? quakertown?




Alan

Yup, Quakertown.
Great field.
Jon

I plan on joining next season, i was flying at your field a couple of weeks ago. I was with two friends wojtek and Adil and we where invited to fly there by Erik.




Alan

Hi Jon
Rumor, has it that the last time some visiting jet guys showed up at Quakertown, the aircraft they were flying left a lot of Burn marks on the grass, any truth to this?

Semper Fi
Joe

ooops, sorry about the burn spots Jon.[&o] when we sign up for membership we will donate a few bags of grass seed to the club.



Alan

Hi Joe,
Yes, it was quite a mess and many members are really upset at the damage. A lot of work by a lot of people to make the new field what it is, and this happened.
I wasn't there, if I was I can assure none of this would have happened. I just wish that Erick and the guests had thought about the ramifications of what they were doing and realize all the work that went into the field, only to be undone by their actions.
Most people don't know the layout of the new field, but for those that do, I always setup under the tree to the left when you come in. It's away from the main pit area, a safer location as far as I'm concerned. I also use a blast deflector made out of a piece of galvanized sheetmetal with a hinge at each end, and a piece of rod welded to the hinge-simple and easy to setup and transport. There's a club rule requiring the use of a blast deflector; I'm sure none were in use on the day of the incident.
Turbine's are going to be discussed at the next meeting, and I'm going to try to go, even though it's on a Thursday night, and it'll be a long haul with traffic, but I want to be there to represent turbine modelers.
I wrote Jon, the President, a letter with several suggestions regarding turbine operation that can be implemented so they're not banned altogether and hopefully this will blow over.
When my son and I go to the field, we try to be considerate of other modelers and act in a safe manner when flying the FACET, knowing we're in the minority and the club could ban turbine's at any time.
Since I have no interest in prop jobs anymore, it would really put a crimp into my modeling if they are banned.
BRG,
Jon

Jon there was a blast deflector on site and it was used during every startup. we where flying bobcats which have the turbines blowing at an angle toward the ground. taxing and takeoffs will cause grass to dry up change colors from the exhaust.

one of the three ships had smoke and unfortunately during two take-offs the smoke fluid ignited during throttle up and caused two bad burn spots in the grass. this was not intensional

We have had discussions on this and we are thinking of ways of minimizing this in the future. Please convay to the members that we appologize for any inconvience that we have placed upon them. if there is anything we can do please feel free to PM me.



Alan

Hey Airforce7,
I live in Brentwood also and fly at EBRC. I've seen you fly your rookie out there..
you said there was a new field in your area?
I know it's off topic.. but I'm always looking for new places to fly
thanks
Ron R