Could anyone give me some tips on the setup of a Rookie II? My first jet was a Kangaroo so I am pretty happy with the basic setup but would like to know what you are doing with your canard/vectoring. I will be using the stock vector pip and P80.

When do you have the canard/vectoring working?
Do you use them both simultaneously or individually switched?
Are they just on or off or do you use different throws at different flight phases?
On or off for take off and landing?
Is it possible/easy to stall the canard? (I am concerned about a sudden nose drop on approach if too much canard is used)

Thanks

Well I Had One With A TITAN Install On It ,Tam Th Vector And 10 Ch Weatronic Dual Reciever With GPS, Very Easy To Build.
Great Airplane To Fly. My Setup For The Canards Was Like This I Keep Them On For Takeoff Landings And 3D Flying , Unbelievable Maneuvers, But Whin I Go For Speed I Switch Bouth Of Them Off.
Very Fast Air Craft I Got Max Speed Of 451 Kph About 280 Mph.
Here Is The Weatronic Logbook

280 MPH!!! Lucky for not having AMA huh???

My Rookie II has a P-80 in it and with stock thrust vectoring. I've got it on a switch and usually only turn it on when I'm up high. My canards are active all the time as I'm using inboard surfaces as elevators and outboard surfaces as ailerons. I need the canards on landing. The through is around 25-30mm up/down.

If I get to slow the jet will settle and slowly fall to earth, but not dip a wing. Only way to get out of it is to go full throttle to regain control. If you get to slow upside down, watch out, it will be more difficult to get out of this orientation and you’ll likely need the thrust vectoring every time. I suppose you can do anything and get out of bad situations with a large turbine, but with the P-80 or P-120 it isn’t the case. You’ll need to find the limits and it takes time.

Ken

How powerful is the thrust vectoring with a P80?

I'm using a Rhino with both vectoring and canards activated for t/o, first t/o was a bit of a surprise as she leapt off the runway and took a few seconds of pio before we settled down. Very sesitive in roll, I found minimal surface movements more to my liking but depends how nervous you like things set up. Overall a very nice airplane to fly and with the Rhino I find I can slow down to only 2 clicks of throttle and still maintain height.

Ideally I would use the canard for slow/medium speed together with the thrust vector for some fun but switch them both out for ultra high speed.

Rob.

Not very powerful. I really only use it to get out of bad situations. Ken

ditto.. and if you really want to have fun get yaw vectoring along with the pitch, even with a p-80.. just don't flat spin it to it's right...

Hi

I've got myself a Rookie II and this is my first jet, althoug i'm into flying RC airplanes (prop) and helis since 8 odd years. Do you suggest the thrust vectoring system installed on the first flight?

Any other tips on building the rookie.

Thanks & regards,

Adarsh www.adarsh007.com
Bangalore, India.

If you don't do anything dramatic with the plane, you don't need the vectoring. Once you get into spins, flops and inverted harriers, it is absolutely essential to have the vectoring for recovery. A couple of us found it doesn't like to recover or recovers very slowly without the vectoring particularly with smaller engines. Vectoring makes the airplane overly sensitive for high speed flight and a hard pull at speed with it on might hurt the plane. I'd reommend having it on a switch.

Mine is nearing completion too. The input I got from a fellow R2 driver is this: Fly the jet first without thrust vectoring and use about half the canard authority with pitch control. The effects from thrust vectoring and the canards are very effective!

Question for Airforce7: Why did you "split" the control surfaces and not use them "ganged" as true elevons? Otoh, the instructions suggest elevons only - did you uncover something not documented elsewhere? (just curious)

Mike

I "split" the control surfaces because it was easier to setup my Tx (JR 9303) this way for one. If I had a 12 or 14 channel radio I'd still easily use all the channels. This jet has a lot of setup possibilities. Anyway, THUD DRIVER recommended using ailerons and elevators on this jet when I first got it and so far it’s been great. I fly with the canards active all the time and only use thrust vectoring when doing stalls/slow flight.

If I get another Rookie, I'd probably fuse the surfaces together and save some time and money setting it up.

Ken

Ah yes, simplicity. I've only got 9 ch to play with myself but I opted to use SmartFly [link=http://www.smart-fly.com/Products/EqualizerII/equalizer.htm]Equalizer II's[/link], one for each wing to make my digital servos happy. (I sent you a separate email asking about your smoke so as not to hijack this thread.)

Mike

quote- Airforce7> I think you'll want to fuse the surfaces together and use a single link to the control surface to create elevons. I recommend that. Had I done that on mine I would have saved a little money and had an easier time programing my 9 channel radio.

took a while to find but I thought I remembered that quote..

..to split or not to split...........let's not confuse anyone,, I glued them together... you can leave them split but imo I'd only use them as the elevon set-up.. I have heard that when the rookie was first designed it was planned to use the set-up like Airfoce 7 has his ( inbrds= elevators & outbrds =ailerons), but they realized on the 1st test flt there was not enough elevator surface to fly safely (not as much an issue now with canards helping to on rookie 2s).,, so it was back to the drawing board and before elevons were considered someone suggested thrust pitch vectoring, thus the 1st thrust vectoring jet for mass sales was born, pitch thrust vectoring was also sold as an option on the old fiberclassic's euro-fighter or what we know now as the eurosport.

Period, i'm going without the thrust vectoring for first few flights. Thanks Thud Driver.

Hey Airforce7, thats a beautiful picture of the Rookie with the smoke system will PM you for the smoke details. would love to have the smoke in my rookie too. Hey, also i need your help in setup of my rookie with my JR 8 channel 3810 radio (I think in US market the radio was called JR 8103) Can i have all the controls in the elevon and canard mixing mode and with the airbrakes but without thrust vectoring. Or should i also invest on a new radio.

Thanks for the help.

Regards,

Adarsh www.adarsh007.com
Bangalore, India.

Adarsh,

I'm afraid I have to recommend a better radio. I don't have any experience with the JR 8103. Your Rookie demands a better radio with mixing capability. Something like the JR 9303, 10X or a Futaba 12Z or 14MZ. Compare your radio specs with what's available at Horizon or Tower Hobbies. This jet has a lot of functions and with the list below as an example; do you think you can use your 8 channel radio for all these features? Matchboxes help too.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/listings/cat-j.html

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Search/D...hTerm=&CatId=R

CH1 – Throttle
CH2 – Lt Elevon (Ailerons)
CH3 – Rt Elevon (Elevators)
CH4 – Rudders
CH5 – Gear
AUX – Brakes
AUX – Canards
AUX – Airbrake
AUX – NW Steering
AUX – SMOKE
AUX – Thrust Vectoring

I know of another feature I added, but you'll have to search RCU to see what I did.

Ken

Adarsh,
Just give vicky a call...no big deal setting up the rookie. Its setup pretty much like the roo...except with canards. I can assist in case u want. Call me

Hey Anurag,

Thanks for the help, yes i'm speaking to vicky too on this. In fact vicky is one who's got me the rookie.

Should be flying by June hopefully

Regards,

Adarsh www.adarsh007.com
Bangalore, India.

here's my rookie2 set-up with jr 10x
ch1 - throttle
ch2 - elevon
ch3 - elevon
ch4 - rudder
ch5 - gear & airbrake (y leaded together) both on the one gear switch
ch6 - pitch on thrust vectoring & canards
--- ch6 & ch7 mixed together to switch on & off
ch7 - yaw thrust vectoring with gyro to assist in hovering
ch8 - wheel brakes & smoke (y leaded together) on slider and snap button
ch9 - nose steering
ch10 - gyro for yaw on thrust vectoring, switched on & off

I made the canards and thrust vectoring (yaw & pitch) to switch on & off and another switch for the gyro assist on the yaw of the thrust vectoring, they can both be on or off together or separate.. With the help of jetronic programable air valves I'm operating 12 functions with a jr10x -- examples > on ch8- smoke works low to hi output on 1st half of slider, brakes work on 2nd half, and snap button is smoke low and brakes pulsing... and on ch5- I take-off with gear down and air-brake stowed, but when I land- gear and air-brake come down, a trick I figured out with the jetronic valves..... it's taken me a while to figure this mess out but it works perfect, 250 flts and counting..

Hi everyone,
I've just started flying a New Rookie II; mine is the "Pinky" scheme and has a JetCat P-80 with fixed gear (KISS). I am really pleased with it. It flies and looks terrific.
I set it up with the canards on the flap channel, with elevator mixed in all the time.
I have the stock thrust vectoring slaved to the elevator but switched so that I have it in for take off and landing and out at high speed.
I have the airbrake on a switch, which brings it down about 85 degrees.
I have mixed the airbrake into the canard, so that deploying airbrake also flips the canard about 60 degrees leading edge UP.
Without airbrake I get nice slow flypasts on idle throttle, but it is hard to land.
With the underside airbrake plus canard airbrake I get loads of drag for nice steep, controllable, predictable approaches with enough power in the elevons and thrust vector for flaring out. It needs a little down trim to overcome the up trim from the canards.

STALLING
Yes, the Rookie will stall, and lock in quite stable, and it takes a lot to get it out. Down elevator with canard and thrust vector and opening the throttle gets it out of an upright stall OK.
Today I got it into an inverted stall and none of that helped. ONLY when I flipped the airbrake switch did it fly out of the inverted stall.
How do the rest of you manage with upright/inverted stalling and spinning?
Who else uses the canard airbrake?
Alasdair

Alasdair,

You've got some interesting approaches to handling your Rookie flight controls. I've only relied on the thrust vectoring to get me out of the flat spins. I'm not sure deploying the airbrake gets you anything as you don't have a lot of forward momentum to "push" the jet nose down, but at the same time your canards are working against you. I would think that you put yourself into a more dangerous situation with your low thrust turbine having these deployed like you say. Having your nose wheel out all the time might help more than the airbrake as the weight is more forward depending on how you balanced it.

I don't use the canard as an airbrake, only the standard one. You need it to land the Rookie or will go for "days" on the landing approach.

Question, do you have brakes on your main wheels? Are they tied to down elevator?

Ken

With a P-70 it was mandatory to have patience & thrust vectoring to get out of the inverted harriers and it wasn't quick to get out. A P-120 & vectoring will push it out immediately. Without vectoring on a P-70 and even on bigger engines, it can be a long wait for the nose to pitch out of the situation. Once I had to use the rudders to slice into a spin to get the nose to break below the horizon. Never tried the airbrake.

Hey Airforce7 & Carbuncle, Thanks for the detailed note. I guess i'll start with the 3810 and later on upgrade it to the 9303 or so. Anyways i'm not planning to do any 3D manuvers with the rookie so No thrust vectoring for me []

Thanks for all the help.

Regards,
Adarsh www.adarsh007.com
Bangalore, India.

I used to do inverted spins, etc., and it is a little tricky and risky, so now I just make inverted laps or passes and do harriers, spins and hovers upright or nose up being careful not to let it fall over on it's back.. The gyroscopic effects of the turbine help make the jet want to spin right so do all spins to the planes left -upright or inverted- or clockwise veiwed from under.. It doesn't get stuck in a spin as easy, just kick opposite rudder and pipe and it's out, and if you have the power fly it out level or up..

Airforce7,
I have fixed gear and no wheelbrakes (not needed here) for simplicity.
As you say, without some kind of airbrake they float forever. What power is in yours? A P-120? And is your thrust vector pitch only like mine?
When my Rookie was in an inverted stall I tried all the controls, starting with elevator down and up, and I opened the throttle first to half then fully. But it would not come out of the stall. It just fell slowly in a level inverted attitude.
It was only when I flipped the airbrake switch which lowered the brake and flipped the canards to +60 degrees that it immediately flew out of the stall, still inverted, as nice as you like.
Maybe I could have given it more time at full power, but I was getting kind of edgy by then.

Carbuncle,
I see that your thrust vector is two-axis, with yaw. What engine power have you fitted? A 120 or more?
How do you (or did you) manage to get in and out of inverted stalls and spins, and even upright ones? Do the controls work at all when stalled with idle power? Do you need full power or does half power work? Do you need the thrust vectoring active or will it recover with vectoring switched off?

There are lots of models out there with canards, Eurosport, Saab Gripen, Rafale, etc etc. Do they lock in to a stall like the Rookie? If so how do you get them out?

I don't want to trash my model exploring all these corners of the flight envelope if someone has been there before.
Thanks all of you,
Alasdair