Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
11-13-2008, 09:16 AM
#1426
RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
Mr DJ,
Marty is on the right track. Basically the problem is that you do need a delay from locks to canopy, but you need the "opposite" delay on opening and closing. That is, on opening, the locks happen immediately but the canopy is delayed. On closing, the canopy drops right away, and the locks are delayed.
Now, the 12Z does have a PMIX that mixes channel A to channel B with a settable delay, separate for "in" and "out" (see page 75 of the 12Z manual). It also has variable speed (slows down servo motion) on the PMIX screen. But presumably from my read of the manual the delay and speed refer to the slave channel of the mix only. FWIW the latest update for the 14MZ adds delay settings for the master channel, but I don't see that on the 12Z yet.
But, as Marty points out, all channels on the 12Z have settable speeds (to slow down their motion .. it's on the ATV menu). So, first you assign the canopy control to be one of the switches (manual page 55 function menu). Next you set up a PMIX from the canopy channel to the lock channel so they are linked together .. canopy is master, lock is slave, 100% mix .. initially set them up to just move together on one switch. Then you set a long delay (via a slow speed .. page 60 in the 12Z manual .. ATV menu) on the canopy channel and a short delay on the lock channel (via it's speed) when you flip the switch to open the canopy, and just the opposite when closing. Do this with the "in" and "out" values for speed .. higher numbers are slower. Use the servo position display screen to see this, or maybe better yet, put servos on the two channels to visualize when setting up.
Since the JetTronic valves are binary devices, what will happen is this: flick the switch to open the canopy. The lock channel will move very fast and cross the switching threshold of the valve almost immediately, the canopy channel will move very slowly and take much longer to reach the switching threshold of the valve. Speed on the canopy channel will vary this delay .. but you will need to experiment since you don't know the precise switching point of the valve's electronics.
Then, when you flip the switch to close, the speed settings are set "opposite" .. the lock signal moves slowly but the canopy signal moves fast. So the canopy will start closing immediately, and the locks will be delayed. Again, we are achieving this delay by moving the channel output (the "servo" ) slowly, and activating the valve when the signal crosses the switching threshold. Imagine a servo moving slowly and the valve operates when the servo arm is at a certain angle.
So, we are not using the built-in delay or speed in the PMIX, even though it has two settings on each .. one for "in" and one for "out". That is an additional flexibility if you choose to use it .. but again it only applies to the slave channel (in this example, the lock channel) and we need to vary the speed of both channels to get the "reversed" delays you need.
I sure hope all this makes sense.
Dave
Marty is on the right track. Basically the problem is that you do need a delay from locks to canopy, but you need the "opposite" delay on opening and closing. That is, on opening, the locks happen immediately but the canopy is delayed. On closing, the canopy drops right away, and the locks are delayed.
Now, the 12Z does have a PMIX that mixes channel A to channel B with a settable delay, separate for "in" and "out" (see page 75 of the 12Z manual). It also has variable speed (slows down servo motion) on the PMIX screen. But presumably from my read of the manual the delay and speed refer to the slave channel of the mix only. FWIW the latest update for the 14MZ adds delay settings for the master channel, but I don't see that on the 12Z yet.
But, as Marty points out, all channels on the 12Z have settable speeds (to slow down their motion .. it's on the ATV menu). So, first you assign the canopy control to be one of the switches (manual page 55 function menu). Next you set up a PMIX from the canopy channel to the lock channel so they are linked together .. canopy is master, lock is slave, 100% mix .. initially set them up to just move together on one switch. Then you set a long delay (via a slow speed .. page 60 in the 12Z manual .. ATV menu) on the canopy channel and a short delay on the lock channel (via it's speed) when you flip the switch to open the canopy, and just the opposite when closing. Do this with the "in" and "out" values for speed .. higher numbers are slower. Use the servo position display screen to see this, or maybe better yet, put servos on the two channels to visualize when setting up.
Since the JetTronic valves are binary devices, what will happen is this: flick the switch to open the canopy. The lock channel will move very fast and cross the switching threshold of the valve almost immediately, the canopy channel will move very slowly and take much longer to reach the switching threshold of the valve. Speed on the canopy channel will vary this delay .. but you will need to experiment since you don't know the precise switching point of the valve's electronics.
Then, when you flip the switch to close, the speed settings are set "opposite" .. the lock signal moves slowly but the canopy signal moves fast. So the canopy will start closing immediately, and the locks will be delayed. Again, we are achieving this delay by moving the channel output (the "servo" ) slowly, and activating the valve when the signal crosses the switching threshold. Imagine a servo moving slowly and the valve operates when the servo arm is at a certain angle.
So, we are not using the built-in delay or speed in the PMIX, even though it has two settings on each .. one for "in" and one for "out". That is an additional flexibility if you choose to use it .. but again it only applies to the slave channel (in this example, the lock channel) and we need to vary the speed of both channels to get the "reversed" delays you need.
I sure hope all this makes sense.
Dave
11-13-2008, 09:29 AM
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RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
ORIGINAL: ww2birds
Mr DJ,
Marty is on the right track. Basically the problem is that you do need a delay from locks to canopy, but you need the "opposite" delay on opening and closing. That is, on opening, the locks happen immediately but the canopy is delayed. On closing, the canopy drops right away, and the locks are delayed.
Now, the 12Z does have a PMIX that mixes channel A to channel B with a settable delay, separate for "in" and "out" (see page 75 of the 12Z manual). It also has variable speed (slows down servo motion) on the PMIX screen. But presumably from my read of the manual the delay and speed refer to the slave channel of the mix only. FWIW the latest update for the 14MZ adds delay settings for the master channel, but I don't see that on the 12Z yet.
But, as Marty points out, all channels on the 12Z have settable speeds (to slow down their motion .. it's on the ATV menu). So, first you assign the canopy control to be one of the switches (manual page 55 function menu). Next you set up a PMIX from the canopy channel to the lock channel so they are linked together .. canopy is master, lock is slave, 100% mix .. initially set them up to just move together on one switch. Then you set a long delay (via a slow speed .. page 60 in the 12Z manual .. ATV menu) on the canopy channel and a short delay on the lock channel (via it's speed) when you flip the switch to open the canopy, and just the opposite when closing. Do this with the "in" and "out" values for speed .. higher numbers are slower. Use the servo position display screen to see this, or maybe better yet, put servos on the two channels to visualize when setting up.
Since the JetTronic valves are binary devices, what will happen is this: flick the switch to open the canopy. The lock channel will move very fast and cross the switching threshold of the valve almost immediately, the canopy channel will move very slowly and take much longer to reach the switching threshold of the valve. Speed on the canopy channel will vary this delay .. but you will need to experiment since you don't know the precise switching point of the valve's electronics.
Then, when you flip the switch to close, the speed settings are set "opposite" .. the lock signal moves slowly but the canopy signal moves fast. So the canopy will start closing immediately, and the locks will be delayed. Again, we are achieving this delay by moving the channel output (the "servo" ) slowly, and activating the valve when the signal crosses the switching threshold. Imagine a servo moving slowly and the valve operates when the servo arm is at a certain angle.
So, we are not using the built-in delay or speed in the PMIX, even though it has two settings on each .. one for "in" and one for "out". That is an additional flexibility if you choose to use it .. but again it only applies to the slave channel (in this example, the lock channel) and we need to vary the speed of both channels to get the "reversed" delays you need.
I sure hope all this makes sense.
Dave
Mr DJ,
Marty is on the right track. Basically the problem is that you do need a delay from locks to canopy, but you need the "opposite" delay on opening and closing. That is, on opening, the locks happen immediately but the canopy is delayed. On closing, the canopy drops right away, and the locks are delayed.
Now, the 12Z does have a PMIX that mixes channel A to channel B with a settable delay, separate for "in" and "out" (see page 75 of the 12Z manual). It also has variable speed (slows down servo motion) on the PMIX screen. But presumably from my read of the manual the delay and speed refer to the slave channel of the mix only. FWIW the latest update for the 14MZ adds delay settings for the master channel, but I don't see that on the 12Z yet.
But, as Marty points out, all channels on the 12Z have settable speeds (to slow down their motion .. it's on the ATV menu). So, first you assign the canopy control to be one of the switches (manual page 55 function menu). Next you set up a PMIX from the canopy channel to the lock channel so they are linked together .. canopy is master, lock is slave, 100% mix .. initially set them up to just move together on one switch. Then you set a long delay (via a slow speed .. page 60 in the 12Z manual .. ATV menu) on the canopy channel and a short delay on the lock channel (via it's speed) when you flip the switch to open the canopy, and just the opposite when closing. Do this with the "in" and "out" values for speed .. higher numbers are slower. Use the servo position display screen to see this, or maybe better yet, put servos on the two channels to visualize when setting up.
Since the JetTronic valves are binary devices, what will happen is this: flick the switch to open the canopy. The lock channel will move very fast and cross the switching threshold of the valve almost immediately, the canopy channel will move very slowly and take much longer to reach the switching threshold of the valve. Speed on the canopy channel will vary this delay .. but you will need to experiment since you don't know the precise switching point of the valve's electronics.
Then, when you flip the switch to close, the speed settings are set "opposite" .. the lock signal moves slowly but the canopy signal moves fast. So the canopy will start closing immediately, and the locks will be delayed. Again, we are achieving this delay by moving the channel output (the "servo" ) slowly, and activating the valve when the signal crosses the switching threshold. Imagine a servo moving slowly and the valve operates when the servo arm is at a certain angle.
So, we are not using the built-in delay or speed in the PMIX, even though it has two settings on each .. one for "in" and one for "out". That is an additional flexibility if you choose to use it .. but again it only applies to the slave channel (in this example, the lock channel) and we need to vary the speed of both channels to get the "reversed" delays you need.
I sure hope all this makes sense.
Dave
Dave, where did you find time to learn all of that
This info is excellent. You and Marty are on top of your Game... U R Da Man also. Wow again...I will keep you posted...
Many thanks...
Mr DJ
11-13-2008, 10:12 AM
#1428
RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
I have a 14MZ, most of the functions are similar to the 12Z, only a few of the "nose bleed" features are omitted from the 12Z. Also spent a few mins reading the 12Z manual that's posted on the Futaba site: [link=http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/12z-manual.pdf]http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/12z-manual.pdf[/link]
If you enjoy experimenting, you should have fun with this. I just wish the radio manufacturers would spend some more time making all the amazing capabilities of these new systems more accessible .. you can learn what functions are there from the mannuals, but usually have to mess with them to really understand.
Hope it works for you. Operating canopies are cool...
Dave
ps ... I think Marty's suggestion to use the channel speed is probably the simplest way to do this, as I elaborated above. But, if you want to attain wizard status at 12Z programming, surely the elegant approach would be to assign the switch that controls the canopy to run one of the virtual channels (VC1 thru 4 .. does not matter, let's say VC1), and mix VC1 as master to canopy as slave with one PMIX, then mix VC1 as master to the latch channel as slave with a second PMIX.
Then you can use the speed and delay functions on the PMIX menu to accomplish the whole thing with full control of speed and delay, separated for in and out, all right on the PMIX screens, rather simply. Heck, you could do it all with actual delays with this approach and would not have to mess with speed and experimentation of the valve trip points! Sorry, couldn't resist [8D]
If you enjoy experimenting, you should have fun with this. I just wish the radio manufacturers would spend some more time making all the amazing capabilities of these new systems more accessible .. you can learn what functions are there from the mannuals, but usually have to mess with them to really understand.
Hope it works for you. Operating canopies are cool...
Dave
ps ... I think Marty's suggestion to use the channel speed is probably the simplest way to do this, as I elaborated above. But, if you want to attain wizard status at 12Z programming, surely the elegant approach would be to assign the switch that controls the canopy to run one of the virtual channels (VC1 thru 4 .. does not matter, let's say VC1), and mix VC1 as master to canopy as slave with one PMIX, then mix VC1 as master to the latch channel as slave with a second PMIX.
Then you can use the speed and delay functions on the PMIX menu to accomplish the whole thing with full control of speed and delay, separated for in and out, all right on the PMIX screens, rather simply. Heck, you could do it all with actual delays with this approach and would not have to mess with speed and experimentation of the valve trip points! Sorry, couldn't resist [8D]
11-13-2008, 10:42 AM
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RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
Dave,
The P-51 example in the FAQ link is all I needed to use. Just by adjusting the timing, allowed the gear to retract immediately after takeoff and the doors to close with delay and throwing the switch for landing, the doors open immediately and the gear comes down with delay. This is basically the same sequence he is looking for I believe? The only difference I see is the use of the electronic valves, there will be a problem with the timing as you said they activate almost immediately. I've only used a jetronic brake valve a few years ago in my Reaction but I thought they could be setup up proportional and non-proportional. If it can be setup as non proportional then using the radio delay function might work without mixing as they might not activate immediately maybe? The Jetronic valves use a lot of air when in proportional mode and slowing down the actuation can empty out the bottle pretty quickly. Might need a restrictor if he needs to use them proportionally. BTW, I'm using the 12FG.
Marty
The P-51 example in the FAQ link is all I needed to use. Just by adjusting the timing, allowed the gear to retract immediately after takeoff and the doors to close with delay and throwing the switch for landing, the doors open immediately and the gear comes down with delay. This is basically the same sequence he is looking for I believe? The only difference I see is the use of the electronic valves, there will be a problem with the timing as you said they activate almost immediately. I've only used a jetronic brake valve a few years ago in my Reaction but I thought they could be setup up proportional and non-proportional. If it can be setup as non proportional then using the radio delay function might work without mixing as they might not activate immediately maybe? The Jetronic valves use a lot of air when in proportional mode and slowing down the actuation can empty out the bottle pretty quickly. Might need a restrictor if he needs to use them proportionally. BTW, I'm using the 12FG.
Marty
11-13-2008, 10:51 AM
#1431
RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
Thanks Marty, I did not know the Jettronic valves were analog or digital, I just assumed digital. I edited my last post to suggest a cleaner way, using delays only, but needing a VC and two PMIXes, and that would probably be best in consideration of what you said (though the speed-based approach would be fine, if I understand correctly, with the valve in digital mode).
It was nice to see that the 12Z has separate "in" and "out" delays and speeds for each mix...
Anyway, I think Mr DJ is now armed and dangerous and will figure it out, and maybe even come up with a better approach!
Dave
It was nice to see that the 12Z has separate "in" and "out" delays and speeds for each mix...
Anyway, I think Mr DJ is now armed and dangerous and will figure it out, and maybe even come up with a better approach!
Dave
11-13-2008, 07:00 PM
#1435
RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
Very interesting re: the loss of the plane .. I assume you mean the switch to kill the turbine, not to open the canopy .. but I guess either one is bad at the wrong time!!!
I have heard of two precautions on this .. first is to put a short delay on the channel so you have time to react if you hit the switch by mistake, and realize it in time. With the 14MZ you can record a sound clip to happen when the switch is thrown, so the radio would say "Turbine shutdown" and then delay (minimally to stay in AMA rules) before actually cutting off. Interesting to figure out of the "oh my!, wrong switch, click" cycle can be accomodated by the delay and still keep the shutdown within AMA limits :-)
Next thought is to use the gear switch to enable/disable the use of the other control so that it only operates with the gear down .. obviously this is not a good idea for the turbine shutdown, which you need to do in an emergency in flight .. but would be a reasonable precaution to prevent opening the canopy in flight (at least most of the time) .. make it so the canopy can only open when the gear are down.
You could also require that two switches be hit for the turbine shutdown.
Or, of course, use a slider or the coarse trim steps!
Dave
I have heard of two precautions on this .. first is to put a short delay on the channel so you have time to react if you hit the switch by mistake, and realize it in time. With the 14MZ you can record a sound clip to happen when the switch is thrown, so the radio would say "Turbine shutdown" and then delay (minimally to stay in AMA rules) before actually cutting off. Interesting to figure out of the "oh my!, wrong switch, click" cycle can be accomodated by the delay and still keep the shutdown within AMA limits :-)
Next thought is to use the gear switch to enable/disable the use of the other control so that it only operates with the gear down .. obviously this is not a good idea for the turbine shutdown, which you need to do in an emergency in flight .. but would be a reasonable precaution to prevent opening the canopy in flight (at least most of the time) .. make it so the canopy can only open when the gear are down.
You could also require that two switches be hit for the turbine shutdown.
Or, of course, use a slider or the coarse trim steps!
Dave
11-14-2008, 01:04 AM
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RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
Can one enable the canopy function when the flaps are down, the gear is down and the brakes are on, may be? or when the throttle is in the 30% or less, or a combo, for extra safety...
11-14-2008, 07:49 AM
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RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
ORIGINAL: Ehab
Can one enable the canopy function when the flaps are down, the gear is down and the brakes are on, may be? or when the throttle is in the 30% or less, or a combo, for extra safety...
Can one enable the canopy function when the flaps are down, the gear is down and the brakes are on, may be? or when the throttle is in the 30% or less, or a combo, for extra safety...
Marty
11-14-2008, 07:52 AM
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RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
Dan was referring to electronic trims, not the canopy...I think?
OK, the canopy can be protected from accidental operation in flight by using the 'logic' functions in the 12FG.
Use 'and' function. This is used to set conditions under which the switch will function.
If those conditions are not met then the switch does nothing.
So, Gear down, throttle below 20%, flaps down etc, etc. can be used to allow the function.
Paul
OK, the canopy can be protected from accidental operation in flight by using the 'logic' functions in the 12FG.
Use 'and' function. This is used to set conditions under which the switch will function.
If those conditions are not met then the switch does nothing.
So, Gear down, throttle below 20%, flaps down etc, etc. can be used to allow the function.
Paul
11-14-2008, 08:36 AM
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RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
ORIGINAL: GrayUK
Dan was referring to electronic trims, not the canopy...I think?
OK, the canopy can be protected from accidental operation in flight by using the 'logic' functions in the 12FG.
Use 'and' function. This is used to set conditions under which the switch will function.
If those conditions are not met then the switch does nothing.
So, Gear down, throttle below 20%, flaps down etc, etc. can be used to allow the function.
Paul
Dan was referring to electronic trims, not the canopy...I think?
OK, the canopy can be protected from accidental operation in flight by using the 'logic' functions in the 12FG.
Use 'and' function. This is used to set conditions under which the switch will function.
If those conditions are not met then the switch does nothing.
So, Gear down, throttle below 20%, flaps down etc, etc. can be used to allow the function.
Paul
Marty
11-14-2008, 12:20 PM
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RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
How do operate the DG1 and DG2 with the 12FG Tx and the 14 ch Rx? can you transfer between the 14 and the 12 Tx's? manual not at hand at the moment [&:]...
11-16-2008, 11:53 AM
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RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
Does the 12Z 2.4 put out a different pulse then the 12Z module/receiver upgrade?
I believe my R6014FS is interfering with my FADEC ECU. My Super Bee would reach 39000 rpm and then shut off immediately. Thought it was the ECU. I sent turbine, ECU, fuel pump back to Jet Central. It started immediately and ran forever. They started it 10 separate times with no problem. It’s on way back to me now. They think it my radio.
Some of you who have the 2.4 said you’ve had not problems, but was it the straight 2.4 or the module? What do you guys think?
I believe my R6014FS is interfering with my FADEC ECU. My Super Bee would reach 39000 rpm and then shut off immediately. Thought it was the ECU. I sent turbine, ECU, fuel pump back to Jet Central. It started immediately and ran forever. They started it 10 separate times with no problem. It’s on way back to me now. They think it my radio.
Some of you who have the 2.4 said you’ve had not problems, but was it the straight 2.4 or the module? What do you guys think?
11-16-2008, 01:14 PM
#1442
RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
Hi Mr. DJ,
Some of the new receivers are using current-generation IC technology that has limited voltage swings on the output. The pulses have the same timing we are used to, but the amplitude is lower .. sometimes around 2.7 V. The amplitude is irrelevant to us, so long as it goes high enough .. the info we require is in the timing of the output pulses. Most of the good servos (old and new) are ok with these lower amplitudes, a few exceptions (you can search for the threads to find it), and some aftermarket devices (electronic valves, some ECUs) have an issue and fail to properly recognize the pulses .. so they act like nothing is connected, or exhibit some odd behavior.
I use the Futaba 2.4 gear (which, by the way, has been rock solid from day one), and did have issues with a pair of older servos, and my Wren 54SS FADEC ECU not "liking" the 6014 outputs. I bought several of the buffers from electrodynamics (see their page at [link=http://electrodynam.com/rc/]http://electrodynam.com/rc/[/link] it's the 4341B) that are made specifically for this purpose, and that was the end of the problem. On the Turbine FADEC it was really odd... I think it was right on the "verge" of working, e.g. if set up with an older RX (setting throttle limits, etc) it would usually work with the 6014, but I was unable to do the TX setup with the 6014 attached.
I contacted Wren who contacted Gaspar, and as I recall they said the Wren/Gaspar ECUs worked fine with the 6014. I put in the electrodynamics buffer, and everything was perfect (and has been since). So while I won't be a fool and argue with the manufacturer (especially two excellent ones like Wren and Gaspar), I know what I saw .. perhaps you have the same issue.
FWIW, you can also use a Fut MSA-10 or Matchbox (overkill .. but maybe you have one on hand) to do the same thing. You can also use one of the aftermarket units that separates, buffers and independently powers the servos (e.g. the Smartfly unit) .. all accomplish exactly the same thing .. they are ok with the low voltage, and send out a "classic" voltage level.
I suppose it is also possible for some sort of RF interference to be hitting you, but that would be the first report I am aware of .. try the buffer first.
Dave
Some of the new receivers are using current-generation IC technology that has limited voltage swings on the output. The pulses have the same timing we are used to, but the amplitude is lower .. sometimes around 2.7 V. The amplitude is irrelevant to us, so long as it goes high enough .. the info we require is in the timing of the output pulses. Most of the good servos (old and new) are ok with these lower amplitudes, a few exceptions (you can search for the threads to find it), and some aftermarket devices (electronic valves, some ECUs) have an issue and fail to properly recognize the pulses .. so they act like nothing is connected, or exhibit some odd behavior.
I use the Futaba 2.4 gear (which, by the way, has been rock solid from day one), and did have issues with a pair of older servos, and my Wren 54SS FADEC ECU not "liking" the 6014 outputs. I bought several of the buffers from electrodynamics (see their page at [link=http://electrodynam.com/rc/]http://electrodynam.com/rc/[/link] it's the 4341B) that are made specifically for this purpose, and that was the end of the problem. On the Turbine FADEC it was really odd... I think it was right on the "verge" of working, e.g. if set up with an older RX (setting throttle limits, etc) it would usually work with the 6014, but I was unable to do the TX setup with the 6014 attached.
I contacted Wren who contacted Gaspar, and as I recall they said the Wren/Gaspar ECUs worked fine with the 6014. I put in the electrodynamics buffer, and everything was perfect (and has been since). So while I won't be a fool and argue with the manufacturer (especially two excellent ones like Wren and Gaspar), I know what I saw .. perhaps you have the same issue.
FWIW, you can also use a Fut MSA-10 or Matchbox (overkill .. but maybe you have one on hand) to do the same thing. You can also use one of the aftermarket units that separates, buffers and independently powers the servos (e.g. the Smartfly unit) .. all accomplish exactly the same thing .. they are ok with the low voltage, and send out a "classic" voltage level.
I suppose it is also possible for some sort of RF interference to be hitting you, but that would be the first report I am aware of .. try the buffer first.
Dave
11-16-2008, 02:32 PM
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RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
Pre-2.4 I had some issues with FADEC on Wrens.
If the installation is such that servos are in close proximity to the turbine you can get interference back onto the ECU RPM reading when moving the servo, this would cause the engine to shut down.
A small capacitor across the power and neg on the rpm sensor line stops this.
Not sure of the value as I got mine from WREN.
Others may know???
This is an old issue and is not 2.4 related, but may still be around on some installations.
Paul
If the installation is such that servos are in close proximity to the turbine you can get interference back onto the ECU RPM reading when moving the servo, this would cause the engine to shut down.
A small capacitor across the power and neg on the rpm sensor line stops this.
Not sure of the value as I got mine from WREN.
Others may know???
This is an old issue and is not 2.4 related, but may still be around on some installations.
Paul
11-16-2008, 03:27 PM
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RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
Dave, Paul many thanks...
My CD told me of a Gent at his field that had the exact same problem and he to had a Wren. I didn't think that was what was wrong with mine since I had a JC Super Bee, but now I believe that is the case. He also talked about the electrodynamics device that eliminated all his problems. I will purchase this device.
Once I have tested it, I will report the results back here...
Thank again...
My CD told me of a Gent at his field that had the exact same problem and he to had a Wren. I didn't think that was what was wrong with mine since I had a JC Super Bee, but now I believe that is the case. He also talked about the electrodynamics device that eliminated all his problems. I will purchase this device.
Once I have tested it, I will report the results back here...
Thank again...
11-22-2008, 10:41 AM
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RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
ORIGINAL: ww2birds
Hi Mr. DJ,
Some of the new receivers are using current-generation IC technology that has limited voltage swings on the output. The pulses have the same timing we are used to, but the amplitude is lower .. sometimes around 2.7 V. The amplitude is irrelevant to us, so long as it goes high enough .. the info we require is in the timing of the output pulses. Most of the good servos (old and new) are ok with these lower amplitudes, a few exceptions (you can search for the threads to find it), and some aftermarket devices (electronic valves, some ECUs) have an issue and fail to properly recognize the pulses .. so they act like nothing is connected, or exhibit some odd behavior.
I use the Futaba 2.4 gear (which, by the way, has been rock solid from day one), and did have issues with a pair of older servos, and my Wren 54SS FADEC ECU not "liking" the 6014 outputs. I bought several of the buffers from electrodynamics (see their page at [link=http://electrodynam.com/rc/]http://electrodynam.com/rc/[/link] it's the 4341B) that are made specifically for this purpose, and that was the end of the problem. On the Turbine FADEC it was really odd... I think it was right on the "verge" of working, e.g. if set up with an older RX (setting throttle limits, etc) it would usually work with the 6014, but I was unable to do the TX setup with the 6014 attached.
I contacted Wren who contacted Gaspar, and as I recall they said the Wren/Gaspar ECUs worked fine with the 6014. I put in the electrodynamics buffer, and everything was perfect (and has been since). So while I won't be a fool and argue with the manufacturer (especially two excellent ones like Wren and Gaspar), I know what I saw .. perhaps you have the same issue.
FWIW, you can also use a Fut MSA-10 or Matchbox (overkill .. but maybe you have one on hand) to do the same thing. You can also use one of the aftermarket units that separates, buffers and independently powers the servos (e.g. the Smartfly unit) .. all accomplish exactly the same thing .. they are ok with the low voltage, and send out a "classic" voltage level.
I suppose it is also possible for some sort of RF interference to be hitting you, but that would be the first report I am aware of .. try the buffer first.
Dave
Hi Mr. DJ,
Some of the new receivers are using current-generation IC technology that has limited voltage swings on the output. The pulses have the same timing we are used to, but the amplitude is lower .. sometimes around 2.7 V. The amplitude is irrelevant to us, so long as it goes high enough .. the info we require is in the timing of the output pulses. Most of the good servos (old and new) are ok with these lower amplitudes, a few exceptions (you can search for the threads to find it), and some aftermarket devices (electronic valves, some ECUs) have an issue and fail to properly recognize the pulses .. so they act like nothing is connected, or exhibit some odd behavior.
I use the Futaba 2.4 gear (which, by the way, has been rock solid from day one), and did have issues with a pair of older servos, and my Wren 54SS FADEC ECU not "liking" the 6014 outputs. I bought several of the buffers from electrodynamics (see their page at [link=http://electrodynam.com/rc/]http://electrodynam.com/rc/[/link] it's the 4341B) that are made specifically for this purpose, and that was the end of the problem. On the Turbine FADEC it was really odd... I think it was right on the "verge" of working, e.g. if set up with an older RX (setting throttle limits, etc) it would usually work with the 6014, but I was unable to do the TX setup with the 6014 attached.
I contacted Wren who contacted Gaspar, and as I recall they said the Wren/Gaspar ECUs worked fine with the 6014. I put in the electrodynamics buffer, and everything was perfect (and has been since). So while I won't be a fool and argue with the manufacturer (especially two excellent ones like Wren and Gaspar), I know what I saw .. perhaps you have the same issue.
FWIW, you can also use a Fut MSA-10 or Matchbox (overkill .. but maybe you have one on hand) to do the same thing. You can also use one of the aftermarket units that separates, buffers and independently powers the servos (e.g. the Smartfly unit) .. all accomplish exactly the same thing .. they are ok with the low voltage, and send out a "classic" voltage level.
I suppose it is also possible for some sort of RF interference to be hitting you, but that would be the first report I am aware of .. try the buffer first.
Dave
I installed the buffer but get "loss or no signal" reading on the data box.
The dealer told me it replaces the throttle lead. The T Lead has two male ends: reciever and ecu. The buffer has male/female ends. I had to attach it to the normal throttle lead. Anyways, no signal still...
11-22-2008, 10:50 AM
#1446
RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
Mr DJ,
If you have a 72 mhz radio available it might be worthwhile to try to operate your turbine with it.....and if it does operate ok, you now know that it's your 12Z that's causing the problem.....just a thought....
Richard
If you have a 72 mhz radio available it might be worthwhile to try to operate your turbine with it.....and if it does operate ok, you now know that it's your 12Z that's causing the problem.....just a thought....
Richard
11-22-2008, 10:59 AM
#1447
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RE: Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING
Richard
My CD told me the same. I just wanted all of my turbines on 2.4 - I have 7 freakin' new 2.4 receivers just waiting to be installed...
I sent my turbine back to Jet Central - they ran it ten separate times with no problems. Since its return, I've cranked it up 4 times with no problems, but haven't flown it yet or put through a full tank, but it at least reaches its 180K rpms without shutting off like it did the first time...
Tomorrow I will fly it and see what happens. Will take my 9303 with me just in case I have to switch it...
Thanks...
My CD told me the same. I just wanted all of my turbines on 2.4 - I have 7 freakin' new 2.4 receivers just waiting to be installed...
I sent my turbine back to Jet Central - they ran it ten separate times with no problems. Since its return, I've cranked it up 4 times with no problems, but haven't flown it yet or put through a full tank, but it at least reaches its 180K rpms without shutting off like it did the first time...
Tomorrow I will fly it and see what happens. Will take my 9303 with me just in case I have to switch it...
Thanks...