Great to see you have respect for 10% of the folks who fly warbirds.
So what? This is probably the same percentage of people at a jet meet than can actually land on the runway and not slide off the side.

Are you so much better than they are?

I can guarantee that I could take your heavy metal F4 with a buddy lead and talk 90% of the folks at a big warbird fly-in thru how to fly it without tearing it all to hell as simple as that.

Jet snobs will be a new term in the dictionary soon I think.
Personally I am trying to stop that opinion of jet flyer's as it's not good for the sport.

you must still be flying that Rookie, heavy metals you hold a high AOA during approach and use throttle for rate of decent, you aren't flaring them. got any pics of your fleet?

my personal opinion is you are the one talking the talk more then walking the walk, but that's just my opinion. if jets are so easy to fly, why would you need the buddy box and talk them through it???? what are your instructions on landing, Hey buddy chop the power back and glide that baby in here then flare just before you touch down

All delta's land high AOA using throttle to get to the piano keys just like flying a full size cesna.
I'm sorry you don't think the rest of us are good enough to land a Heavy metal the same way.

Why would I use a buddy box, because it's your plane. Would not want one of the 90% of warbirds pilots who you say can't fly, to crash it for you. I was just looking after your investment. Once they've all confidently landed it and the nerves have gone away then they could do it without a lead.

Any one can fly a jet and you are saying that only you have enough skill to do it. Really if it was that hard there would not be thousands of people around the world doing it. It's not as if their real planes.
My personal opinion is you are an ATF (all talk flyer) but that's just my opinion.

Got any pics of your fleet that the rest of us are clearly not good enough to fly?

I'm sorry I can't afford a fleet, I needed to sell all my prop planes to afford one JAS-39 Gripen with a jetcat 120SE.

As if a brand new first time jet pilot would buy a heavy metal any way?
The rest of the mortals would buy a eurosport or a rookie, probably because it would be half the price.

Growingupisoptional, you obviously have some sort of chip on your shoulder regarding jet pilots. No one is saying that someone can't learn to fly jets. We are just saying, correctly so, that they are more complicated than props. This fact is universally accepted by most everyone in the hobby including AMA. AMA didn't create the waiver program to make them feel better lol. That is an absurd observation. They carry liability insurance and the waiver helps to ensure that people are properly trained in the hobby in order to extend that insurance to jet pilots. Because of the high expense of jets we typically use higher grade components (servos, radios, special regulators, power expanders, dual batteries for redundancy, heavier landing gear etc...) which typically require more expertise than your standard flyer has. This is the reason (as you also correctly stated in a previous post) that one should try and hook up with the local guru to get pointers and help. In my opinion anyone who can successfully fly a warbird with retracts and flaps can learn to fly a jet with some help. Easy isn't the word that comes to mind during the process of learning that skill set

Take it easy - your making more of an issue out of this than necessary.

BTW, just because you have an autostart Jetcat with an ECU doesn't mean everything is going to work like it is supposed to. You CAN do things to destroy the jet and the engine. Ever heard of a wet start? If you don't know what to look for and how to correct it when it happens you will most likely distroy the jet. There are many other pitfalls that one must consider before tackling a jet. One other thing is that with jets everything happens FAST. Exponetially so compared to props. You better be prepard to take evasive action quickly if something goes wrong. Again, I'm not saying that people can't lean these skill sets - it's just that they ARE more complicated and they DO have be learned.

still talking the talk i see.........


Why wouldn't they, you said yourself they are so simple to fly.

there are plenty of jets out there that are in the same price range as the rookie/eurosport but amazingly enough they aren't 'Trainer' style jets and that's why the trainers are called trainers, they are more forgiving to the novice. it's the same reason why the majority of people learning to fly RC learn on a flat bottom high wing Trainer.

it's not that anyone is being a Jet snob as you put it, most of us have flow quiet a number of different airframes and know that a great deal of them take allot more pilot ability then your pylon racer and Gripen. can anyone who has the ability to fly a low wing prop job take a boomerang up with no problem?? yeah the majority can, but to say flying any jet is easy and anyone who can fly a 40 size prop plane can do it is a gross understatement. you'll find that most of us here in reality tell it like it is so people asking know the facts then we're more then happy to help them out getting their feet wet with a turbine powered aircraft.

Andy your entire post comes across as telling me to suck eggs (meaning rude). You haven't concentrated on the discussion at hand which is skill level.
Funny that I would have a chip on my shoulder when I fly jets and I'm telling other people they should try it.
I always take it easy. In 4 years I have only posted 20 posts, but people scaring people out of flying jets is a discussion I like to get in on.
However your first response to me in this thread states how" I can't teach you anything about basic flight characteristics of petrol type plane" and then ask me to do the same about jet ones. You need a chill pill dude.

My point is that turbines aren't very hard to use. If I can do it any one can. You can argue that the hardest to fly scale model is going to be difficult for a beginner but that's why there is such a cross section of airframes. Why be so negative all the time? You can say that for you they are complex and hard to fly. And I can tell people that they are not so complex and quite easy to fly. So why am I wrong?

KC36330ATF
I said they wouldn't buy a heavy metal because of the price!! read again.
I never said flying all jets is as easy( read the posts again) as a 40 size. And I agree with you that anyone can fly a boomerang intro.
You jumped into this thread with your my plane it too hard for everyone else to fly comment. Not me.
And now I see I'm not a good enough pilot because I fly a Gripen? You don't know me from a bar of soap and yet you judge me.
Great to see you have resorted to personal attacks. Big of you.

If i am upsetting your delicate jet pilot ego i am sorry for that.

I still say that the skill level of the average jet pilot is no greater than the skill level of your average prop pilot. Only the wallets differ.

This is what the thread is about and you do not have to agree with me.

Cars aren't very hard to drive either so rather then having to sell off your prop planes to buy a turbine why don't you just go win a few Indy races? you could be the next Mario Andretti, they might even make a Playstation game with your name on it [X(]

I don't think flying jets is more difficult than Warbirds, just different. It is an acquired skill, just like flying heavier planes was an acquired skill from the trainer aircraft we learned on. Anyone who can competently handle a heavy warbird could handle a jet, once they get some stick time and learn to anticipate throttle lag and the higher speeds. Hell, I think helicopters were harder to learn than warbirds or jets. That's both from a setup and a flying perspective.

Actually, I think a lot of pilots have trouble with nerves more than skills. It can take a while for some people to get accustomed to the fact that one bad decision could cost 8 or 9 thousand. I have seen some very competent pilots get trembly thumbs the first few times they have a big jet in the air.

Here is my experience as I am a 3D/IMAC pilot who typically flies 40% Extras, yet had my first official jet flight this weekend. I had Rev Russ maidened my Tamjet F-16 with a P-120. I took off and landed the F-16 with zero intervention on my second flight, which some said I wouldn't be able to do immediately. I am by no means suggesting that I am a great jet pilot because of my flights, but I am saying that success is obtainable even for n00bs.

Here's how my flights went...

Flight #1: On my first flight (with a buddy box) Russ talked me through the take off. No problem. I flew around and Russ landed

Flight #2: I took off again then flew around high alpha at a relatively low speed to get a feel for the plane's descent rate. I told Russ I was ready to try a couple low approaches to practice my approaches. On the 4th pass I decided to land the F-16... I kept high AoA as instructed by Russ and managed my descent with throttle. I brought the plane down on it's mains, it bounced about a foot, so I held elevator pressure and allowed the plane to settle back on the runway. The plane stopped in the center of the runway and I was all grins. Russ did a good job talking me through it.

The experience was different than landing a prop plane. I knew how to hold a AoA because of flying harriers in my 3D planes and I also understood that I control my altitude with my throttle because that is how I land my 42% Comp-ARF SuperXtra. If you have the fundamentals down, you'll be successful too.

I would agree with you. I haven't flown a jet .. yet. But I've flown every thing else including heli's. I know about trembly thumbs. I spent three years building a competition Scale plane. The first flight ended in a dead stick. I do think the large investment of $ has something to do with the perception or risk to the pilots.

I think this is a perfect example of the fact that getting into turbines can be pretty easy for people who already posess certain skills / techniques - changing from a prop to a turbine adds some twists (lag, lack of propwash etc) that you need to anticipate and work on, but when approached correctly they don't have to be a massive barrier.

I think that most of the guys I know who put serious effort into their giant-scale 3D, pattern, racing, etc would have few problems transitioning to turbines, because they have a methodical approach to developing their skills, regardless of what they are flying.

I also think that there's limited value in talking about generalizations like whether a "warbird" pilot can easily transition to jets. I know a great many guys who fly warbirds of all sizes, who could easily fly a turbine model. I also know quite a few guys who fly warbirds, who would have a great deal of difficulty with a turbine, and I've failed quite a few such people in the 6 years or so that I've been doing turbine sign-offs. It's not whether the guy flies a warbird of some kind, or a pattern plane or whatever, that determines whether I'm going to sign him off - it's stuff like whether he is controlling the aircraft rather than vice versa.

You don't have to be a top-notch pilot to fly turbines (otherwise I wouldn't be doing it!), but that still doesn't mean that just because you currently "fly" a P51 or a Quickie, or whatever, that you're going to be able to handle a turbine safely.

Gordon