What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
03-18-2008, 06:09 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
And he is not the only one having made that decision already... [
]
I feel sorry for everyone having such a kit already as it is virtually impossible to do anything with the present wings, you MUST make new ones yourself if you have a Formost.
]I feel sorry for everyone having such a kit already as it is virtually impossible to do anything with the present wings, you MUST make new ones yourself if you have a Formost.
03-18-2008, 06:20 AM
#329
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Nicolas,
Do you think the wing panel problem was due to the CF spar being the wrong type of material and the flex was exaggerated because of lack of enough insertion depth?
You mentioned that you used Kite CF spar material which is made to flex.
Could it be if the spar was inserted deeper the outer wing would not have flexed?
The Baby Boomerang has a larger dia Main spar O.D. = 1.04" (26.5mm)
Thickness = .040" (1mm)
The insertion depth into the outer wing panel of the BB is 12" (305mm)
That is double the insertion depth of the Formost. 150
The spar I purchased is from a proven design and is.63 Dia (16mm) & .078†thick (2mm)
I believe that all that would be required is to reinforce one rib with a plywood doubler at the end of the CF spar, in other words cut a slot at the rib locations closest to the 12†insertion depth and insert a doubler.
The photos that you have shown of the broken ribs are the area in front of the main spar sheer web which makes up the “D†tube portion of the wing. This seems like a strange place to develop stress cracks.
Remember the same company makes the Falcon 120, so one should come to the conclusion that the same wood is being used.[X(]
Sandlor I would not fire sale your kits just yet
Do you think the wing panel problem was due to the CF spar being the wrong type of material and the flex was exaggerated because of lack of enough insertion depth?
You mentioned that you used Kite CF spar material which is made to flex.
Could it be if the spar was inserted deeper the outer wing would not have flexed?
The Baby Boomerang has a larger dia Main spar O.D. = 1.04" (26.5mm)
Thickness = .040" (1mm)
The insertion depth into the outer wing panel of the BB is 12" (305mm)
That is double the insertion depth of the Formost. 150
The spar I purchased is from a proven design and is.63 Dia (16mm) & .078†thick (2mm)
I believe that all that would be required is to reinforce one rib with a plywood doubler at the end of the CF spar, in other words cut a slot at the rib locations closest to the 12†insertion depth and insert a doubler.
The photos that you have shown of the broken ribs are the area in front of the main spar sheer web which makes up the “D†tube portion of the wing. This seems like a strange place to develop stress cracks.
Remember the same company makes the Falcon 120, so one should come to the conclusion that the same wood is being used.[X(]
Sandlor I would not fire sale your kits just yet
03-18-2008, 06:34 AM
#330
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
My buddy just sent me some photos of the outer wing section that he is going to modify with the plywood doublers, he said by cutting one access hatch he can get to the last three ribs, I believe he will destroy one balsa rib in order to slide in the furtherest rib and the destroyed rib will be replaced with a ply rib.
Believe me this is a simple fix... all is not lost!
Believe me this is a simple fix... all is not lost!
03-18-2008, 06:37 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Rich,
On my right wing panel, all ribs except the wing root rib in plywood and the two outer ribs next to the wing tip, are broken. Left wing is a little less damaged.
I could very easily crush and collapse the wing in my hand if I'd wish to (this is how I discovered it, by taking them out of the wing bags), the only remaining strength came from the outer skin and the leading and trailing balsa lists.
It is a mystery to me how I could have ended the flight ; I made several rolling circles, loopings, cuban eights,... and nothing happened there.
I cannot take a photo of the deeper area in the wing, the camera flash doesn't reach there, but if you'd like, I'll cut very carefully the top skin off tonight to show.
It would not have made a difference if the CF spar would have been inserted deeper and/or be more supported, in my opinion.
I was very lucky I did the mid wing reinforcement with CF glassing, or without any doubt I would have lost a wing.
Will post some photos this evening. This wing is not repairable anyway.
Nicolas.
On my right wing panel, all ribs except the wing root rib in plywood and the two outer ribs next to the wing tip, are broken. Left wing is a little less damaged.
I could very easily crush and collapse the wing in my hand if I'd wish to (this is how I discovered it, by taking them out of the wing bags), the only remaining strength came from the outer skin and the leading and trailing balsa lists.
It is a mystery to me how I could have ended the flight ; I made several rolling circles, loopings, cuban eights,... and nothing happened there.
I cannot take a photo of the deeper area in the wing, the camera flash doesn't reach there, but if you'd like, I'll cut very carefully the top skin off tonight to show.
It would not have made a difference if the CF spar would have been inserted deeper and/or be more supported, in my opinion.
I was very lucky I did the mid wing reinforcement with CF glassing, or without any doubt I would have lost a wing.
Will post some photos this evening. This wing is not repairable anyway.
Nicolas.
03-18-2008, 07:02 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Rich,
Bellieve me, I share your enthousiasm for this project, and I will eventually fly my own 'Frankenstein-150' again, but not with these wings and I would never ever encourage anyone again to use this Trojan Horse wing set included in the kit. The rest is fixable, but not a bad wing structure and unreachable bad balsawood ribs.
For those still tempted to continue the build of the kit they already have : - I cannot stop them- : THROW AWAY THE WINGS, MAKE YOUR OWN IN STYROFOAM
Nicolas.
Bellieve me, I share your enthousiasm for this project, and I will eventually fly my own 'Frankenstein-150' again, but not with these wings and I would never ever encourage anyone again to use this Trojan Horse wing set included in the kit. The rest is fixable, but not a bad wing structure and unreachable bad balsawood ribs.
For those still tempted to continue the build of the kit they already have : - I cannot stop them- : THROW AWAY THE WINGS, MAKE YOUR OWN IN STYROFOAM
Nicolas.
03-18-2008, 07:21 AM
#333
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Nicolas,
I appreciate your candidness on the wing structure.
In my opinion I think that removing a section of sheeting and adding some reinforcement to the ribs is a simple task. To me it is much easier than starting from scratch but this is just my opinion.
Mine will fly with the mods mentioned; however before doing so I will sand bag the fuselage center section with weights to check wing deflection both positive and negative.
It will not take to the friendly skies until I am satisfied with the integrity of the structure.
I plan on devoting some serious time after work this week and will post a report later.
Rich
I appreciate your candidness on the wing structure.
In my opinion I think that removing a section of sheeting and adding some reinforcement to the ribs is a simple task. To me it is much easier than starting from scratch but this is just my opinion.
Mine will fly with the mods mentioned; however before doing so I will sand bag the fuselage center section with weights to check wing deflection both positive and negative.
It will not take to the friendly skies until I am satisfied with the integrity of the structure.
I plan on devoting some serious time after work this week and will post a report later.
Rich
03-18-2008, 10:30 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: RCISFUN
Nicolas,
I appreciate your candidness on the wing structure.
In my opinion I think that removing a section of sheeting and adding some reinforcement to the ribs is a simple task. To me it is much easier than starting from scratch but this is just my opinion.
Mine will fly with the mods mentioned; however before doing so I will sand bag the fuselage center section with weights to check wing deflection both positive and negative.
It will not take to the friendly skies until I am satisfied with the integrity of the structure.
I plan on devoting some serious time after work this week and will post a report later.
Rich
Nicolas,
I appreciate your candidness on the wing structure.
In my opinion I think that removing a section of sheeting and adding some reinforcement to the ribs is a simple task. To me it is much easier than starting from scratch but this is just my opinion.
Mine will fly with the mods mentioned; however before doing so I will sand bag the fuselage center section with weights to check wing deflection both positive and negative.
It will not take to the friendly skies until I am satisfied with the integrity of the structure.
I plan on devoting some serious time after work this week and will post a report later.
Rich
here are some pic of my formost and a link to a video, I have a boomerang XL and a Intro
I think the formost flies a lot like my XL . flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
03-18-2008, 10:41 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: jets2
HI
here are some pic of my formost and a link to a video, I have a boomerang XL and a Intro
I think the formost flies a lot like my XL . flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
ORIGINAL: RCISFUN
Nicolas,
I appreciate your candidness on the wing structure.
In my opinion I think that removing a section of sheeting and adding some reinforcement to the ribs is a simple task. To me it is much easier than starting from scratch but this is just my opinion.
Mine will fly with the mods mentioned; however before doing so I will sand bag the fuselage center section with weights to check wing deflection both positive and negative.
It will not take to the friendly skies until I am satisfied with the integrity of the structure.
I plan on devoting some serious time after work this week and will post a report later.
Rich
Nicolas,
I appreciate your candidness on the wing structure.
In my opinion I think that removing a section of sheeting and adding some reinforcement to the ribs is a simple task. To me it is much easier than starting from scratch but this is just my opinion.
Mine will fly with the mods mentioned; however before doing so I will sand bag the fuselage center section with weights to check wing deflection both positive and negative.
It will not take to the friendly skies until I am satisfied with the integrity of the structure.
I plan on devoting some serious time after work this week and will post a report later.
Rich
here are some pic of my formost and a link to a video, I have a boomerang XL and a Intro
I think the formost flies a lot like my XL . flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
03-18-2008, 02:11 PM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: RCISFUN
Jets 2....Great Job
Can you tell us what mods you performed?
Jets 2....Great Job
Can you tell us what mods you performed?
wing tube for a tool to cut into fuselage to put carbon fiber spar from wing to wing
and washer on tail see pics
03-18-2008, 03:28 PM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
03-18-2008, 03:31 PM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: jets2
The only mod I did was ,take a cutoff tool and Noach aluminium
wing tube for a tool to cut into fuselage to put carbon fiber spar from wing to wing
and washer on tail see pics
ORIGINAL: RCISFUN
Jets 2....Great Job
Can you tell us what mods you performed?
Jets 2....Great Job
Can you tell us what mods you performed?
wing tube for a tool to cut into fuselage to put carbon fiber spar from wing to wing
and washer on tail see pics
03-18-2008, 03:47 PM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Dave
I am dissapointed in you!
You are flaming good old fashioned British Engineering here! That looks like a solid piece of kit and not a Chinese knock off.
John
I am dissapointed in you!
You are flaming good old fashioned British Engineering here! That looks like a solid piece of kit and not a Chinese knock off.John
03-18-2008, 04:49 PM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: john agnew
Dave
I am dissapointed in you! You are flaming good old fashioned British Engineering here! That looks like a solid piece of kit and not a Chinese knock off.
John
Dave
I am dissapointed in you!
You are flaming good old fashioned British Engineering here! That looks like a solid piece of kit and not a Chinese knock off.John
What a wonderful choice of name. "Trojan" ?? Why not just call it "Durex Ribbed", and be done with it ?
03-18-2008, 05:57 PM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
The Falcon 120 is no reccomendation. Two people in our club have/had them. What with having to re-glue all the formers and then one of them the undercarriage gave way on one wing on takeoff.
Still if you like a challenge and don't mind the messing about and what would be for me, the thought in the back of my mind that the airframe could fail at any given time, go for it.
Simon.
Still if you like a challenge and don't mind the messing about and what would be for me, the thought in the back of my mind that the airframe could fail at any given time, go for it.
Simon.
03-18-2008, 07:25 PM
#343
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: RCISFUN
Nicolas,
I appreciate your candidness on the wing structure.
In my opinion I think that removing a section of sheeting and adding some reinforcement to the ribs is a simple task. To me it is much easier than starting from scratch but this is just my opinion.
Mine will fly with the mods mentioned; however before doing so I will sand bag the fuselage center section with weights to check wing deflection both positive and negative.
It will not take to the friendly skies until I am satisfied with the integrity of the structure.
I plan on devoting some serious time after work this week and will post a report later.
Rich
Nicolas,
I appreciate your candidness on the wing structure.
In my opinion I think that removing a section of sheeting and adding some reinforcement to the ribs is a simple task. To me it is much easier than starting from scratch but this is just my opinion.
Mine will fly with the mods mentioned; however before doing so I will sand bag the fuselage center section with weights to check wing deflection both positive and negative.
It will not take to the friendly skies until I am satisfied with the integrity of the structure.
I plan on devoting some serious time after work this week and will post a report later.
Rich
03-18-2008, 08:48 PM
#344
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: RCISFUN
Nicolas,
I appreciate your candidness on the wing structure.
In my opinion I think that removing a section of sheeting and adding some reinforcement to the ribs is a simple task. To me it is much easier than starting from scratch but this is just my opinion.
Mine will fly with the mods mentioned; however before doing so I will sand bag the fuselage center section with weights to check wing deflection both positive and negative.
It will not take to the friendly skies until I am satisfied with the integrity of the structure.
I plan on devoting some serious time after work this week and will post a report later.
Rich
Nicolas,
I appreciate your candidness on the wing structure.
In my opinion I think that removing a section of sheeting and adding some reinforcement to the ribs is a simple task. To me it is much easier than starting from scratch but this is just my opinion.
Mine will fly with the mods mentioned; however before doing so I will sand bag the fuselage center section with weights to check wing deflection both positive and negative.
It will not take to the friendly skies until I am satisfied with the integrity of the structure.
I plan on devoting some serious time after work this week and will post a report later.
Rich
My plan for a test (to failure) later this week on my own nitro/jet conversion of another kit (because I don't have sandbags) is to load the center section of the wing (to the width of the fuse) and support the wing as follows: Under each wing will be, heavily cushioned to distribute the load chord wise, a ply board along the span of each wing half. Because the ply boards are not joined they will allow the wing to flex in the middle. Each board will, in turn, be supported halfway to the wingtips, on the back of a sawhorse. As weight is applied it will be distributed along the full span of each winghalf and across the chord by the cushioned ply board. The two ply boards will pivot over the sawhorses as the wing flexes in the center. Weight will be added incrimentally until something goes "pop". Divide the failure weight by the fuse weight and bingo, I'll have the structural G limit.
Or so goes the plan, anyway. I'll let U know if it works out that way....
My 2c. Good luck with the test, Don.
03-19-2008, 03:13 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: Dave Kelly
Nicolas,
Your next project maybe?
http://www.elationmodels.co.uk/23.html
best wishes
Dave
Nicolas,
Your next project maybe?
http://www.elationmodels.co.uk/23.html
best wishes
Dave
My next project is a Multiplex TwinJet and a tiny Lambert Kolibri, which will be used in the next stage in a Falcon 25.
Waiting for it to be delivered soon !
Nicolas.
03-19-2008, 03:20 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
After a good night of rest and chewing and digesting my disappointment, I decided to buy a new set of wings and start on these all over again. But this time, the right way. Pffff....
Perhaps the best way is to put a carbon rod or tube over the whole wingspan (like suggested by RCISFUN in this direction) + glassing the entire wing.
Cutting foam for one single set is a lot of work, and trying to repair my current set is in no proportion to the price of the complete kit.
Still, I do not recommend this kit anymore, but at least I want to fly it again.
Nicolas.
Perhaps the best way is to put a carbon rod or tube over the whole wingspan (like suggested by RCISFUN in this direction) + glassing the entire wing.
Cutting foam for one single set is a lot of work, and trying to repair my current set is in no proportion to the price of the complete kit.
Still, I do not recommend this kit anymore, but at least I want to fly it again.
Nicolas.
03-19-2008, 03:44 AM
#348
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Hello Mr.SpiderJets and every members!
We are the manufacturer of the Formost-150 in China. We are very glad and appreciate to see so many good opinions and suggestion about our Formost-150 above. We know you've improved many places to suit your own design. It's good, and wish we together with every one of you can bring plane model to a higher development.
The original mind of Formost-150 is a two-stroke internal combustion engine, so the interchargeablity for turbine engine is very low. But now we've put our hand to improve the intensity and structure to correspond to general-purpose use.
We shall be much obliged if you will be so kind as to make suggestions for improvement of our work. Appreciate again and E-mail from you are welcome.
Lingjiuhaixing Tech. Co.Ltd
Tel:86-027-87533393
E-mail: [email protected][/size]
We are the manufacturer of the Formost-150 in China. We are very glad and appreciate to see so many good opinions and suggestion about our Formost-150 above. We know you've improved many places to suit your own design. It's good, and wish we together with every one of you can bring plane model to a higher development.
The original mind of Formost-150 is a two-stroke internal combustion engine, so the interchargeablity for turbine engine is very low. But now we've put our hand to improve the intensity and structure to correspond to general-purpose use.
We shall be much obliged if you will be so kind as to make suggestions for improvement of our work. Appreciate again and E-mail from you are welcome.
Lingjiuhaixing Tech. Co.Ltd
Tel:86-027-87533393
E-mail: [email protected][/size]
03-19-2008, 04:27 AM
#350
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Can you send me a photo of the present internal structure of your wing (while you are producing it in your factory), I would like to see why the design of my wings failed.
My direct e-mail is [email protected]
Best Regards,
Nicolas.
My direct e-mail is [email protected]
Best Regards,
Nicolas.