Flyeagle F18F
05-21-2009, 06:50 AM
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RE: Flyeagle F18F
OK David.
But FEJ sold is large HD pipe, as design for P180, P200 engine (between 45 -50 lbs) .... So whenwe buy this plane with this pipe , we can hope that this pipe is correctly design for this engine...Andy and Chistian's pipes were broken with 45 lbs engine!!!! so with respect of theFEJ specifications!
The problem is not other than that!
FEJ choose his price. We accept or not to pay when we have the specifications. The price is not all. Here the specificationswere not respected by FEJ.. and christian had paid more (150 $) for a large pipe .. finally, it didn't resisted!
I wrote to James for ask what they can do for christian's plane... I wait his answer and i post here.
Best regards,
Sébastien
But FEJ sold is large HD pipe, as design for P180, P200 engine (between 45 -50 lbs) .... So whenwe buy this plane with this pipe , we can hope that this pipe is correctly design for this engine...Andy and Chistian's pipes were broken with 45 lbs engine!!!! so with respect of theFEJ specifications!
The problem is not other than that!
FEJ choose his price. We accept or not to pay when we have the specifications. The price is not all. Here the specificationswere not respected by FEJ.. and christian had paid more (150 $) for a large pipe .. finally, it didn't resisted!
I wrote to James for ask what they can do for christian's plane... I wait his answer and i post here.
Best regards,
Sébastien
05-21-2009, 07:05 AM
#1427
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RE: Flyeagle F18F
ORIGINAL: jetnuno
Ok David
The chair example is fair enough.....but just doesn't fit in this issue, unless the cheaper chair falls apart with a 150Lb weight person.
I have a brand new F18 from FEJ including the pipe they are selling with the package. They should test their planes, pipes, etc, before selling them.
Also, what happened to Autorot's friend, that collapsed his F18 pipe (no wetstarts) in the second flight is not overstress the pipe. I don't know how many flights do you have in your FEJ F18 or if you have had any wetstart, but assuming you have not stressed the pipe, you are replacing it because you DON'T THRUST IT ANYMORE to have a 7K$ plane reling in it.
Regarding the imputs made by Andy and Autorot, the FEJ pipes in the planes that crashed were not overstressed, just fell appart. Your's and Oliver's don't seem ver healthy as well...sorry, but the argument that the plane was bought in an inexpensive package is no excuse for this.
FEJ as provided a fine support with the mistakes they have made along the RD made for this plane, they have sent new springs for the gear, bigger cilinders and new support woods for the gear to have the correct angle to operate properly. I am sure that they will provide a better pipe for F18 owners or rework the ones they have sent.
The first action you have to do to correct a mistake, is to admit you madeit. FEJ as been done this in a fair way. Their pipe is not properly done to work with theirexcelent airframe andpaintjob. Furthermore, IT CAN GEOPERDIZE the all airframe including electronics and turbine.
I am faithfull that like before, they willfind a way to provide a reliable thrust pipe. They have the means and knowledgeto do it. They just need to put an extra care in QC.
I am also faithfull that they will provide a fair solution for Andy and Autorot's friend. I say it again, IT COULD BE ME IN THEIR SHOES, so I thank these posts again.
Regards
Nuno
Ok David
The chair example is fair enough.....but just doesn't fit in this issue, unless the cheaper chair falls apart with a 150Lb weight person.
I have a brand new F18 from FEJ including the pipe they are selling with the package. They should test their planes, pipes, etc, before selling them.
Also, what happened to Autorot's friend, that collapsed his F18 pipe (no wetstarts) in the second flight is not overstress the pipe. I don't know how many flights do you have in your FEJ F18 or if you have had any wetstart, but assuming you have not stressed the pipe, you are replacing it because you DON'T THRUST IT ANYMORE to have a 7K$ plane reling in it.
Regarding the imputs made by Andy and Autorot, the FEJ pipes in the planes that crashed were not overstressed, just fell appart. Your's and Oliver's don't seem ver healthy as well...sorry, but the argument that the plane was bought in an inexpensive package is no excuse for this.
FEJ as provided a fine support with the mistakes they have made along the RD made for this plane, they have sent new springs for the gear, bigger cilinders and new support woods for the gear to have the correct angle to operate properly. I am sure that they will provide a better pipe for F18 owners or rework the ones they have sent.
The first action you have to do to correct a mistake, is to admit you madeit. FEJ as been done this in a fair way. Their pipe is not properly done to work with theirexcelent airframe andpaintjob. Furthermore, IT CAN GEOPERDIZE the all airframe including electronics and turbine.
I am faithfull that like before, they willfind a way to provide a reliable thrust pipe. They have the means and knowledgeto do it. They just need to put an extra care in QC.
I am also faithfull that they will provide a fair solution for Andy and Autorot's friend. I say it again, IT COULD BE ME IN THEIR SHOES, so I thank these posts again.
Regards
Nuno
You actually got my point quite well. It was made in general, not in specific to Andy's case.
I have a pipe made for an AirWorld F-5, that Olivier and I compared to the pipe I received from FlyEagle for their 1/5.5 F-16. The construction & materials used in the AirWorld pipe was so far above the FlyEagle pipe as to be ridiculous! I doubt that the FlyEagle pipe would last for more than one season of flying and certainly would not stand up to the abuse of a wetstart and still be serviceable. I would, on the other hand fully expect to get years of service out of the AirWorld pipe and if I had a wetstart I honestly believe the Airworld pipe would handle it well.
Now, the AirWorld F-5 is a builder's kit, not an ARF, and it cost fully twice the price of any of the large FlyEagle kits.
Ijust sometimes think that lot of us are expecting to pay half price but get full value! These are cheap kits! Anton Has the molds for a 1/7 scale F-18F that he has not yet produced. Were he to do so. I have every belief that the construction and materials used would be much better than the FlyEagle. I believe the pipe he would include would be much better than the FlyEagle. I also believe that he would charge a price at least twice what any of us has paid for the FlyEagle! I can't stress this enough, IMHO. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. In Andy's case, it appears he did not get what he paid for, meaning ,an adequately constructed pipe that would not disintegrate due to faulty welds. In this specific case he has an issue which FlyEagle needs to deal with.
But IN GENERAL, buying one of these kits and then complaining because the quality is not as good as you would expect from SkyMaster or some other Mfg at twice the price, seems naive, at best. If you don't want to mess with these issues or have to correct their mistakes, the answer seems simple. Don't buy the product!
If you've already bought the product, then step up and buy the better pipe from Tam and save yourself the grief! Manufacturing mistakes are made much more frequently on an inexpensive assembly line than they are on a higher quailty line. I won't even attempt to use the FlyEagle pipe in the F-16. It would probably work fine for a while! But why take the chance.
David S
05-21-2009, 07:31 AM
#1428
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RE: Flyeagle F18F
ORIGINAL: David Searles
Ron,
Let me paint you a picture:
Two lounge chairs in a store. One is $49.95. The other is $149.95 . The cheaper chair looks good but has a disclaimer: 200lb max capacity, the more expensive chair says 350lb max capacity. Does this mean the cheaper chair is a POS? Or does it simply mean as long as the person sitting in it isn't as big as you or I, it will serve them well. The more expensive chair is made out of stronger more expensive materials, with stronger weld joints etc, etc. As such will stand up to the abuse of folks as big as you or I, easily. They're both good products, you get what you pay for.
Now let's put it in perspective. The FlyEagle pipe comes as part of a relatively inexpensive package. The quality of construction and materials is similar to that 49.95 lounge chair. As long as you don't over stress it, it'll be fine! Now would you rather they not put the disclaimer of "max 200lbs" on it, and allow you to think you can sit in it and get good results? With this disclaimer FlyEagle is simply now admitting what should have been obvious. Their pipes are made cheaply, they won't stand up to abuse as well as a more expensive, stronger Tam pipe. If you weigh 275 lbs and decide to buy and use that $49.95 chair you can't really blame the mfg for making a POS.
Olivier was here today and we talked about the F-18F pipes, took mine out to send to Tam. Both he and I have the same pipes in our F-18F. We both have approx the same amount of flights and neither of us has had a problem with our pipes. Upon inspection of my pipe today we both agreed it needs to be replaced, it was beginning to show some weakness in the joints. I will replace it with a Tam pipe.
I personally would rather FlyEagle either just not supply pipes at all and leave it to the modeler, or increase the cost of the kit to support the mfg of an excellent quality pipe ala Tam's to include. But that is their decision.
I say again, it appears that Andy's pipe broke apart because of less than adequate construction, an entirely different issue.
David S
Ron,
Let me paint you a picture:
Two lounge chairs in a store. One is $49.95. The other is $149.95 . The cheaper chair looks good but has a disclaimer: 200lb max capacity, the more expensive chair says 350lb max capacity. Does this mean the cheaper chair is a POS? Or does it simply mean as long as the person sitting in it isn't as big as you or I, it will serve them well. The more expensive chair is made out of stronger more expensive materials, with stronger weld joints etc, etc. As such will stand up to the abuse of folks as big as you or I, easily. They're both good products, you get what you pay for.
Now let's put it in perspective. The FlyEagle pipe comes as part of a relatively inexpensive package. The quality of construction and materials is similar to that 49.95 lounge chair. As long as you don't over stress it, it'll be fine! Now would you rather they not put the disclaimer of "max 200lbs" on it, and allow you to think you can sit in it and get good results? With this disclaimer FlyEagle is simply now admitting what should have been obvious. Their pipes are made cheaply, they won't stand up to abuse as well as a more expensive, stronger Tam pipe. If you weigh 275 lbs and decide to buy and use that $49.95 chair you can't really blame the mfg for making a POS.
Olivier was here today and we talked about the F-18F pipes, took mine out to send to Tam. Both he and I have the same pipes in our F-18F. We both have approx the same amount of flights and neither of us has had a problem with our pipes. Upon inspection of my pipe today we both agreed it needs to be replaced, it was beginning to show some weakness in the joints. I will replace it with a Tam pipe.
I personally would rather FlyEagle either just not supply pipes at all and leave it to the modeler, or increase the cost of the kit to support the mfg of an excellent quality pipe ala Tam's to include. But that is their decision.
I say again, it appears that Andy's pipe broke apart because of less than adequate construction, an entirely different issue.
David S
Ron
05-21-2009, 01:25 PM
#1429
RE: Flyeagle F18F
ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews
Thanks George.
I just thinking what price should I charge tomorrow morning for these pipe.
ORIGINAL: tamjets
Tam,
Not to worry, you could tell everyone exactly what you use and no one would come close to producing a bifurcated pipe like you. I made one 8 years ago when I had access to the necessary equipment and I know the hassle, you have no worries. You should be able to sell one pipe for every kit sold.
George
Tam,
Not to worry, you could tell everyone exactly what you use and no one would come close to producing a bifurcated pipe like you. I made one 8 years ago when I had access to the necessary equipment and I know the hassle, you have no worries. You should be able to sell one pipe for every kit sold.
George
Thanks George.
I just thinking what price should I charge tomorrow morning for these pipe.
While you are thinking about what to charge everyone for a pipe please answer the following question. Do you automatically require your customers to replace your pipes if they have a breif wet start? What is your policy regarding wet starts? Like others have said here they have had wet starts before (myself included), inspected the pipe and if everything looks good flown again without incident.
Andy
[/quote]
Andy,
As a manufacture. We recommending you expect your pipe after any mishap incident wet start or in the crash for sign of failure.
This base on modeler experience to make a call should be the pipe replace or not. We highly suggest to replace the pipe if there sign of weakness of the pipe.
Even though track record that had show our pipe take up some of the abuse use. But that doesn't mean we had to warrantee if it fail.
I'm selling the products that works for it application. But I can't offer any warrantee was miss use beyond what it design it for.
For example.
You bought a brand car that manufacture give you 100k miles warranttee on the engine.
But the recommendation you must change your oil every 3k miles and take care other tune up on regular basic.
Here you kept driving without chance the oil and other tune up was recommending by manufacture. Your engine seize up.
Are the manufacture go to warrantee for your miss handle or their had to honorthewarrantee the engine will last 100K miles?
So my policy is very simple to kept liability off our back.
There is no warrantee for any kind once was use by modeler.
Modeler should had experience and understanding how to use it properly.
05-21-2009, 05:25 PM
#1431
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RE: Flyeagle F18F
ORIGINAL: tamjets
Tam,
While you are thinking about what to charge everyone for a pipe please answer the following question. Do you automatically require your customers to replace your pipes if they have a breif wet start? What is your policy regarding wet starts? Like others have said here they have had wet starts before (myself included), inspected the pipe and if everything looks good flown again without incident.
Andy
ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews
Thanks George.
I just thinking what price should I charge tomorrow morning for these pipe.
ORIGINAL: tamjets
Tam,
Not to worry, you could tell everyone exactly what you use and no one would come close to producing a bifurcated pipe like you. I made one 8 years ago when I had access to the necessary equipment and I know the hassle, you have no worries. You should be able to sell one pipe for every kit sold.
George
Tam,
Not to worry, you could tell everyone exactly what you use and no one would come close to producing a bifurcated pipe like you. I made one 8 years ago when I had access to the necessary equipment and I know the hassle, you have no worries. You should be able to sell one pipe for every kit sold.
George
Thanks George.
I just thinking what price should I charge tomorrow morning for these pipe.
While you are thinking about what to charge everyone for a pipe please answer the following question. Do you automatically require your customers to replace your pipes if they have a breif wet start? What is your policy regarding wet starts? Like others have said here they have had wet starts before (myself included), inspected the pipe and if everything looks good flown again without incident.
Andy
Andy,
As a manufacture. We recommending you expect your pipe after any mishap incident wet start or in the crash for sign of failure.
This base on modeler experience to make a call should be the pipe replace or not. We highly suggest to replace the pipe if there sign of weakness of the pipe.
Even though track record that had show our pipe take up some of the abuse use. But that doesn't mean we had to warrantee if it fail.
I'm selling the products that works for it application. But I can't offer any warrantee was miss use beyond what it design it for.
For example.
You bought a brand car that manufacture give you 100k miles warranttee on the engine.
But the recommendation you must change your oil every 3k miles and take care other tune up on regular basic.
Here you kept driving without chance the oil and other tune up was recommending by manufacture. Your engine seize up.
Are the manufacture go to warrantee for your miss handle or their had to honorthewarrantee the engine will last 100K miles?
So my policy is very simple to kept liability off our back.
There is no warrantee for any kind once was use by modeler.
Modeler should had experience and understanding how to use it properly.
[/quote]
Also take into consideration that a Tam Pipe is exactly that! A pipe made by Tam himself, not some unknown worker down on the mfg floor getting paid almost nothing by US standards. As a result the quality control on Tam's pipes is the best in the industry!
" who need waranty? my pipe build right, if it break is cause you broke it!
David S
" who need waranty? my pipe build right, if it break is cause you broke it!
David S
05-21-2009, 05:41 PM
#1432
RE: Flyeagle F18F
ORIGINAL: rbxbear44
TAM,
Quit explaining and start building those pipes!!! TAM make goooooooooo smoke...TAM make gooooooooooo pipe.
Where is my pipe???? I will send Mike Pascoe out there to rough you up if I don;t get one right away!!!
Rex
TAM,
Quit explaining and start building those pipes!!! TAM make goooooooooo smoke...TAM make gooooooooooo pipe.
Where is my pipe???? I will send Mike Pascoe out there to rough you up if I don;t get one right away!!!
Rex
Rex,
I'm enjoying my bath and glad to take your money.
Send me Mike over. I need my back rub.
05-21-2009, 10:33 PM
#1433
RE: Flyeagle F18F
I really appologize for destroying this thread guys. I know there are a lot of guys who would like to discuss ways of improving their FEJ F-18 builds etc. Hopefully this issue will be resolved soon. By the looks of the pole I posted it seems like the majority of jet jocks here agree that a simple wet start shouldn't distroy a pipe. They are tring to pin that issue on me, but from what I have seen and discussed with the majority of jet vets here is that this is a travisty caused by a pipe that failed from defective manufacturing. I implore you FEJ to correct this situation quickly.
FEJ - I hope your are listening to your customers.
Andy
05-21-2009, 10:43 PM
#1434
RE: Flyeagle F18F
Andy,
You are not distroying the thread. If you help one guy avoid what happened to you, you are doing a great service to the hobby. If you help convince FEJ to make their jet as high quality on the inside as they look on the outside, even better...
Bob
You are not distroying the thread. If you help one guy avoid what happened to you, you are doing a great service to the hobby. If you help convince FEJ to make their jet as high quality on the inside as they look on the outside, even better...
Bob
05-22-2009, 08:20 AM
#1435
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RE: Flyeagle F18F
I agree 100 % with you Bob. 
Andy, I am also sorry for the loss of your jet. I have now built 2 of these FEJ F18F and know how much work and additional expense goes into makingthem right. I only had 5 flights on my first one, but after getting it dialed in a bit, she flew great. Yes this F18F is challenging, and yes there have been some upgrades and improvements from FEJ, and at this point I want to thank you for bringing to light the next and maybe LAST weak link in this plane. I was going to maiden #2 this weekend, NowI will wait to get a new pipe from Tam.
I hope FEJ makes this right by youand again sorry for the loss.
Kevin Marks
Andy, I am also sorry for the loss of your jet. I have now built 2 of these FEJ F18F and know how much work and additional expense goes into makingthem right. I only had 5 flights on my first one, but after getting it dialed in a bit, she flew great. Yes this F18F is challenging, and yes there have been some upgrades and improvements from FEJ, and at this point I want to thank you for bringing to light the next and maybe LAST weak link in this plane. I was going to maiden #2 this weekend, NowI will wait to get a new pipe from Tam.
I hope FEJ makes this right by youand again sorry for the loss.
Kevin Marks
05-25-2009, 05:18 AM
#1436
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RE: Flyeagle F18F
Hi all,
just want to describe my experience with my F18. Two weeks ago during a take off, the nose weel thake a stone strongly causing a rotation to the right. To slow for take off, to fast for brakes...it take the border net . Some damages on the nose and no more.
Now after the repair, as usual i triple checked all the surfaces and everiting that can be damaged. I fond a litle imprecision on the left elevon.
Well i found that the alluminium bar was not fixed...i pulled it out and...i've seen that just a litle point of glue was applied!
Wath did you think about?
Andrea
05-25-2009, 06:50 AM
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RE: Flyeagle F18F
Hi,
because of a Jet meeting from Friday, i did the work asap and i'd no pics!
Yes i use the stock pipe. I try to find some differences of color in mine but no ones...!!! I'm using the Behotech JB180 with kero start, sometimes it made a litle flames but (i hope) no problems!
Andrea
05-25-2009, 09:14 PM
#1441
RE: Flyeagle F18F
FEJ's final offer came in tonight. 40% off a new kit. Big deal. You can keep it FEJ. I guess they feel like putting out a product that is critically flawed is ok. I hope their customer base speaks to them and lets them know that this is unacceptable. I for one will not be buying any more of their products.
Andy
05-25-2009, 09:33 PM
#1442
RE: Flyeagle F18F
Andy,
That sucks and I don't think that they went as far as they should have. Their pipe failed because it was not made properly (or of the right material) and even if they gave you a new kit, you'd still be out lots of $'s for the parts, the turbine repair, etc.
I can't say I'm surpirised though. All you have to do is look at how they operate and you can clearly see that they are much more interested in selling kits than supporting them. They've already moved past the F-18 and are on to see how many they can hook with the F-14, the Tordano, the Liberty, etc.
Too bad, because their jets are good looking on the outside - not much to speak of otherwise though. Anybody read the thread about Shok's experience with the FEJ L-39?!?! Looks like the typical R&D effort went into making that a good-flying plane as well...
Bob
That sucks and I don't think that they went as far as they should have. Their pipe failed because it was not made properly (or of the right material) and even if they gave you a new kit, you'd still be out lots of $'s for the parts, the turbine repair, etc.
I can't say I'm surpirised though. All you have to do is look at how they operate and you can clearly see that they are much more interested in selling kits than supporting them. They've already moved past the F-18 and are on to see how many they can hook with the F-14, the Tordano, the Liberty, etc.
Too bad, because their jets are good looking on the outside - not much to speak of otherwise though. Anybody read the thread about Shok's experience with the FEJ L-39?!?! Looks like the typical R&D effort went into making that a good-flying plane as well...
Bob
05-26-2009, 02:11 AM
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RE: Flyeagle F18F
Hello Andy,
And 40 % of the actual price it's just the introduce price in july 2008!!
FEJmakes fun of us. He want just to sell planes. Also they do much new models to attract much customer. Then it is necessary to wait more than 4-5 months for the delivery (except if you purchase a new model to them, there they support you!=> it is a circle without end).
And when the plane is there, it is to the purchaser to make R& D with the risk to crash the plane (even if he isn't among the 10 first custumers...).
I was one of the first customer and supporterof fly eagle in France in 2007, with F16 1/8 . It was a very good plane (copied from skymaster...)
At the beginning, very well, quality, times, very well for 6 months. after the price was increased and...
I had F18, No comment here, justto see all this post.
And L39 1/7, well, but really too heavy (with care...they could have gained 1 to 2 kg
Now, which is important for them is to produce quickly new models, with great outside quality. Inside quality (design) is as a second and the price does not have anything to see.They could much better do for almost the same price, ifthey took the time of serious design andtestbefore marketing. The new models which they do (not copied from others manufacturing) suffer from many defects. And even if James is sympathetic ,… they want just to sell… to makemoney.... quickly.
It's what i think now..... and several of their old custumer in France.
Best regards,
Sébastien
And 40 % of the actual price it's just the introduce price in july 2008!!
FEJmakes fun of us. He want just to sell planes. Also they do much new models to attract much customer. Then it is necessary to wait more than 4-5 months for the delivery (except if you purchase a new model to them, there they support you!=> it is a circle without end).
And when the plane is there, it is to the purchaser to make R& D with the risk to crash the plane (even if he isn't among the 10 first custumers...).
I was one of the first customer and supporterof fly eagle in France in 2007, with F16 1/8 . It was a very good plane (copied from skymaster...)
At the beginning, very well, quality, times, very well for 6 months. after the price was increased and...
I had F18, No comment here, justto see all this post.
And L39 1/7, well, but really too heavy (with care...they could have gained 1 to 2 kg
Now, which is important for them is to produce quickly new models, with great outside quality. Inside quality (design) is as a second and the price does not have anything to see.They could much better do for almost the same price, ifthey took the time of serious design andtestbefore marketing. The new models which they do (not copied from others manufacturing) suffer from many defects. And even if James is sympathetic ,… they want just to sell… to makemoney.... quickly.
It's what i think now..... and several of their old custumer in France.
Best regards,
Sébastien
ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews
FEJ's final offer came in tonight. 40% off a new kit. Big deal. You can keep it FEJ. I guess they feel like putting out a product that is critically flawed is ok. I hope their customer base speaks to them and lets them know that this is unacceptable. I for one will not be buying any more of their products.
Andy
FEJ's final offer came in tonight. 40% off a new kit. Big deal. You can keep it FEJ. I guess they feel like putting out a product that is critically flawed is ok. I hope their customer base speaks to them and lets them know that this is unacceptable. I for one will not be buying any more of their products.
Andy
05-27-2009, 06:16 PM
#1446
Thread Starter
RE: Flyeagle F18F
Hi
I was looking in the German Forum http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...132352&page=11, for the FEJ F18 with a twin set-up.
Does anybody know if it ever flew? I guess there are 2 of these with Boster80s
Regards
Nuno
I was looking in the German Forum http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...132352&page=11, for the FEJ F18 with a twin set-up.
Does anybody know if it ever flew? I guess there are 2 of these with Boster80s
Regards
Nuno
05-28-2009, 03:04 AM
#1448
RE: Flyeagle F18F
Hello from Germany,
this F 18 with the 2 Booster 80 will fligh on this Weekend on the first Flyeaglejet Flightdays in Germany by Goerlitz.
I built this one for Paul wich is one of the 2 Flyeaglejet Rep. from Germany.
He also will fly the F15 I made for him.
I think there will be some Pictures after that hapening.
Have a nice day...... Fast and low and dont forget turn left.
this F 18 with the 2 Booster 80 will fligh on this Weekend on the first Flyeaglejet Flightdays in Germany by Goerlitz.
I built this one for Paul wich is one of the 2 Flyeaglejet Rep. from Germany.
He also will fly the F15 I made for him.
I think there will be some Pictures after that hapening.
Have a nice day...... Fast and low and dont forget turn left.
05-28-2009, 01:43 PM
#1450
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RE: Flyeagle F18F
why am I not surprised, not the news you want to hear Andy, you would probably get a better deal off rc universe in the find ads site.
regards
Todd