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New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

Old 03-25-2009, 04:52 AM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine


ORIGINAL: i3dm

knobby1 mentioned to me on YT that he has run it full throttle many times and will make another video soon.
I have no doubt is makes 240,000RPM. My question is for how long? History tells me this manufacturer has "longevity" issues with turbines before needing parts. No fan boys can deny this. Yes measured thrust would be nice to see. 4 pounds I believe the claim is?

Dave "I sign my posts" Rigotti
Old 03-25-2009, 05:42 AM
  #127  
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

Im with you Dave. would love to see real numbers.
Old 03-25-2009, 08:07 AM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

Who exactly makes "AMA approved" clevises???
Old 03-25-2009, 09:51 AM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine


ORIGINAL: CowboyLifesaver

Jet Joe did in FACT receive letters stating they were not "AMA Approved" therefore should not be doing business. Write them and ask for a copy. It was on their site for some time in the news section. No hallucinations, nice of you to post that stranger. Flown with me before?

As for informal flying. There are those of us in some areas of the country that refuse to fly within the formal system. Some of us due to extremely high dues, some due to petty rules to keep the "average Joe" from using their field and so on. Here in this area there's a list as long as my arm why to not fly with them. One of them being the accident rate that actual club members have, and another, having to change all of your clevises to "AMA approved" ones, not the ones that come with the kit, ARF, etc.. I would also like the liberty of flying my extremely fast P-51 at will, within safe parameters of course. I plan to purchase a turbine powered jet before next winter with all confidence, not arrogance of my abilities.

I agree that some form of organization, regardless of the actual location, is warranted. When the person or persons organizing such group makes it nearly impossible for a new prospective member to be a part of a club or group, I'll take the wide open spaces away from everyone else, or fly at a club farther away that is not convenient, but safe, friendly, and conducive to the hobby as many other clubs and sites are.


It just amazes me the number of people willing to so easily attack me, but not willing to look into these kind of things that put our hobby in a bad light. I'm accused of trolling and making things up by a small bunch, all one has to do is a little homework, and see I've done my homework. I don't post things just to post. I post from experience and from research making sure I do not cast a broad net but one just big enough.

Oh well, I don't suppose bringing things to light is within my posting credentials to some as I am only AMA # 830129
CowboyLifeSaver,

Thanks for the information and thoughts. You make several good points. No agruement from me.

DW_Crash
Old 03-25-2009, 01:49 PM
  #130  
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

Mr Lifesaver-Facts are just like Kryptonite to some people. Let me try again. The AMA approved turbine engine program was D/Cd on 1 Feb, 2004. As close as I can recall MrJoe EXPLODED on the turbine scene with a BURNING desire to bring the FLAMING high prices down to a DRASTIC and GRINDING halt with HIS Unique and INnoviatave design in late 2004 earyl 2005. Per Ilona Maine there were no cease and desist letters sent-there were letters sent stating that there was NO AMA certified program in place. Perhaps when the black helicopters delivered them they got altered.
There are no AMA certified turbines
There are no AMA certified clevises
There are no AMA certified ANYTHING. (with the exception of narrow band FM compliance transmitters)
Have I ever flown with you? Doubtful as you appear to be an individualist that does not like to fly at AMA sanctiond fields since they discriminate against you. I tend to only fly at AMA sanctioned fields so it is unlikely our flight paths have crossed. Besides I would be afraid your Non AMA certified battery might overpower your Non ama certified servo causing your Non AMA certified clevis to fracture and send your plane in the pits
Keep up the fight against the establishment-we do need people to keep us from getting too complaicent.
Best regards
Scotty Rais
97501 to return the favor.
Old 03-25-2009, 01:56 PM
  #131  
 
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

Just to be clear, AMA does not sanction fields either. However they do sanction clubs.
Old 03-25-2009, 01:58 PM
  #132  
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

Interesting point brought up by Cowboy; he may have just opened a can of worms he never intended.



Straight from the 510-A document (SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT POWERED BY GAS TURBINES)

2. AMA retains the right to exclude any engine, (individual or type), which is believed to exhibit a safety concern.


So it's probably true "Joe" got or has a letter stating his engines are excluded. If that's the case and they still are ecluded, then everyone in the U.S. flying these engines at AMA fields or sanctioned events could be in violation of the rules and not covered? [X(]

Wonder if CDs are going to start banning Joe-equipped aircraft from flying if they are excluded in accordance with the #2 rule?

Thoughts?

Edit: Changed 'not approved' to "excluded" to accurately reflect the rule.
Old 03-25-2009, 02:10 PM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

Sorry- I ment Sanctioned events and Chartered club fields. Written in a hurry. S
Old 03-25-2009, 02:26 PM
  #134  
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

Guys,

Can we stick to the subject (JJ Junior) please ? i hate to see this thread go down the drain and become another flaming thread. all i really wanted is a little info, about the Junior specifically.
Old 03-25-2009, 05:01 PM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

Hey Guys,

Let me start by saying.... Yes, I do work on JJ engines and I try to make them work to the best of my ability. I'm a helicopter turbine engine technician by trade and have been for the best part of 30 years. Jet-Joe sent the engine to myself (among one or two others) to see if it was a feasable engine. Indeed work is still being done to try and improve them, and this work is not yet finished. Please try to refrain from flaming on this thread, we're here for information and help, not abuse and belittlement. If you don't like JJ engines, the answer is simple....don't buy them..! I'm the first to admit the JJ engines are nowhere near the quality of a Wren, JetCat, Jet-Central et-al.. We all know it, so please stop beating it to death. I have a Wren MW54 MkII at home as we speak which belongs to a local customer of mine, it only requires a small repair to some wiring and a few parameter changes, the engine itself is faultless. I find it a delightfull engine to run, excellent power, great spool times and beautiful build quality....nuff said.

Being one of the first people outside China to run one of these "Joe-Junior" turbines, let me state that it's not up to the standard of the Lambert Kolibri....and I dare say it never will be. I've had the tiny Joe for a couple of weeks to date and believe it or not...it started first go out of the box, there were and still are some issues which need to be addressed, however, the engine itself is not a bad thing, I believe the supplied pump capacity is a little too large for it, and the ECU parameters need "tweaking", I have addressed some of these issues and informed Jet-Joe of my findings.

As everybody is well aware, the tolerances required within an engine such as this need to be precise just for it to run, let alone run well, the engine I have does indeed run up to 240k rpm, the thrust delivered was just shy of 3.8lbs, (not 4lbs as advertised) with the EGT touching ~620-630c at full noise and spiking to ~670c during a slam acceleration from idle. Spool times from idle are a little slow compared to other engines, I measured several runs with an average of 4.15 secs. Not bad but not the best out there.

I do however have issues with the ramp and idle, with the pump capacity being quite high for this engine I believe the electric motor within the pump struggles at very low voltages such as during the ramp and idle, hence why I suggested a smaller capacity pump, possibly similar in size to the Flightworks 100 series pump. At the moment the pump being used is the same as the one supplied with any new JJ-1400 engine these days.

So in conclusion, yes the engine runs, and yes it runs reasonably well, but a Lambert Kolibri it isn't. Personaly I believe the engine has been released prematurely before "all" the issues have been ironed out....just my humble opinon. The issues mentioned above are being addressed and I believe a nice little engine will be the net result in the not too distant future.

I hope this post goes some way to clear the air, or at least some of it.

Cheers and all the best from down under.
Smithy.




Old 03-25-2009, 05:13 PM
  #136  
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

Smithy,

Finally some genuine info. I would like to thank you personally for chimming in with your expiriece.
Old 03-25-2009, 05:59 PM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

Smithy,

Thanks for relating your hands on experience.

DW_Crash
Old 03-25-2009, 09:57 PM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

K1,

I appreciate the honest feedback too. Thanks for taking the time to write it, and being man enough to state the facts.

Chad
Old 03-25-2009, 10:04 PM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine


ORIGINAL: SinCityJets

K1,

I appreciate the honest feedback too. Thanks for taking the time to write it, and being man enough to state the facts.

Chad
Hey Chad,

I guess it had to happen eventually, too much speculation is a bad thing, I trust your Kolibri's are doing well??

I learnt a lot from watching your Youtube video about them.

Cheers,
Smithy
Old 03-25-2009, 11:04 PM
  #140  
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

I knew some real information would eventualy come to this thread. Finally, after long last, information that pertains to the thread title is beginning to arrive.

Many thanks Smithy...... >>>From everyone who just wants to learn about a new product and get some facts.

I will continue to stop here for information even if I have to wade through hours of JJ bashing.
Old 03-26-2009, 12:12 AM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine


ORIGINAL: knobby1


ORIGINAL: SinCityJets

K1,

I appreciate the honest feedback too. Thanks for taking the time to write it, and being man enough to state the facts.

Chad
Hey Chad,

I guess it had to happen eventually, too much speculation is a bad thing, I trust your Kolibri's are doing well??

I learnt a lot from watching your Youtube video about them.

Cheers,
Smithy
Smithy,

The Kolibri's are doing very well. They run great and perform as advertised. But, no one will argue (certainly not me), they are expensive. You hit the nail on the head with the fact that the tolerances that are required to spin something at 240,000 rpm's, and still create the required combustion leaves no room for error. Martin Lambert's requirement for perfection is evident in these engines. He is definitely a perfectionist, almost to a fault.

Good luck with the future testing.

Chad
Old 03-26-2009, 12:53 AM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

[/quote]
Smithy,

The Kolibri's are doing very well. They run great and perform as advertised. But, no one will argue (certainly not me), they are expensive. You hit the nail on the head with the fact that the tolerances that are required to spin something at 240,000 rpm's, and still create the required combustion leaves no room for error. Martin Lambert's requirement for perfection is evident in these engines. He is definitely a perfectionist, almost to a fault.

Good luck with the future testing.

Chad

[/quote]
Chad,
Thanks for the kind wishes, I just wish some of the JJ bashers out there would be as constructive as your good self. We need people such as you and other "hands-on" people to give facts rather than conjecture. Yes JJ doesn't have a good name, and rightly so, but when assembled correctly and setup by a reputable dealer/technician, they usually give reasonable service. And yes, you get what you pay for.

Every engine type has it's own foibles and I'm sure a lot of people have had a bad experience with most of them, these are the ones we hear about....we rarely hear about the ones which run as they should. People don't normally complain about a nicely running engine.

I'm sure the J-Junior will have it's own problems just as any engine does.

Cheers and keep up the good work.
Smithy.

Old 03-26-2009, 10:15 AM
  #143  
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

Smithy

Good report and insight, tells me exactly the state of play and overall condition of this new turbine. I won't end up again being a beta tester for JJ and paying for the pleasure. There is a guy in Anglesey N. Wales who will also know when they are completely ready.

Paul
Old 03-27-2009, 12:08 AM
  #144  
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

I like the humor.

I have custom batteries made for all my planes.....How did you know? LOL

Too many companies sell junk batteries.

I am glad you explained that there is no "AMA approved" anything.

There are a lot of people who need to read that and get a grasp of it.

Exclusion is another story, yet the letter received mentioned nothing about exclusion only approved.

I know there is not an AMA approved anything, but there are many (NOT ALL) AMA members who think there is.

I was merely pointing out two occasions on which AMA approved was used by AMA members NOT ME.

Yes, Jet Joe did receive a letter about an AMA approved turbine list. I'm sure they will share it with you if you would send them an email asking to see it instead of bashing me for mentioning an ACTUAL letter they received at Jet Joe.

Yes, AMA approved clevises has been told to many people who bring their planes to the local club.

Yes, there are great AMA members, but you need to understand there are people out there who are in fact AMA members who do and say these kinds of things all the time.

Would it shock you to know that an AMA member, who was thrown out of the local AMA sanctioned club, shot down two of my airplanes in one day as well? There is no evidence to the contrary. This was right after they told us we were flying on their field, when in fact they were flying on ours. How we needed to leave because some of us weren't AMA members. One of them flew on my frequency all the sudden. Not all AMA members care about the hobby.

Maybe people should bash the AMA members who do and say these things instead of bashing me for bringing it to light, unless those people are one of them.

Bash away I'm done posting in this forum. Thanks to all of those who actually were able to comprehend what I was saying.
Old 03-30-2009, 07:23 PM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

I hope to run mine this week. I had a flight works 100c that is much smaller and may be less sensitive . vortax-32 came also and seems it will be a better match than the bobcat 25. easier access to start engine. Landing gear are at to post office. I pick them up tommarrow.
Old 03-30-2009, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine


ORIGINAL: idleup1

I hope to run mine this week. I had a flight works 100c that is much smaller and may be less sensitive .
Yes Idle,
The flightworks 100 pump will be a much better match for the little Junior.

Cheers,
Smithy.
Old 03-31-2009, 03:43 AM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine


ORIGINAL: idleup1

I hope to run mine this week. I had a flight works 100c that is much smaller and may be less sensitive . vortax-32 came also and seems it will be a better match than the bobcat 25. easier access to start engine. Landing gear are at to post office. I pick them up tommarrow.

Soudns great. please give us pics and info of the turbine once you recieve it.
Old 03-31-2009, 07:36 PM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

I'll try to get some pictures tomarrow. I've been modifying a vortech32 for retracts and made the turbine mount. motor looks small in there but the plane is light
Old 04-04-2009, 09:39 PM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

Idle..... Awww. man... you're killing me. Its been 4 days and no pics of the vortex and/or turbine. What is the meaning of this?
Old 04-05-2009, 07:18 PM
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Default RE: New JetJoe J-Junior 4lbs turbine

sorry. I bought a house in northern mich and was working on it all weekend . I did get the landing gear installed and working in the wings .I knocked out the original motor mount and installed a cradle for the turbine. I misplaced my camera but I promise some pictures tomarrow.

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