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Old 12-17-2013, 01:39 PM
  #1701  
rhklenke
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Originally Posted by husafreak
FWIW those stab slot covers are not very scale like. Which is fine for this sport scale kit. But if you are going for scale accuracy you won't want them.
Shape wise, they look pretty close. I don't have them in front of me, so I can't tell size wise, but they do have to be big enough to cover the hole in the fuse - which may mean that they are larger than scale because the cross member that connects the stabs is certainly larger than scale...

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Old 12-17-2013, 02:26 PM
  #1702  
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I guess I mean it would be better to make your own. Use thin G10 and it should be right against the fuselage with the "S" shaped pieces that cover the exposed panel edges. Dantley had a Skymaster Hawk (I think) and after looking at it I decided I would never use the pieces in the kit.
Old 12-17-2013, 06:32 PM
  #1703  
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Originally Posted by izzy
Bob
can you describe hwo you did the APU exhaust and also intakes ?
thx izzy
Yes, I will do that, but please give me a day or two to do so - I'm still kind of busy at work this week - next week I have off...

Bob
Old 12-23-2013, 08:10 PM
  #1704  
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Times up rhlenke!
Anywhoo, for all you Hawk owners a cautionary tale. I have 40 flights on mine now and last Sunday the EV5 failsafe function dropped my gear for me. Funny that was flight #35 which is the same flight number the Robart electronic gear safe in my Electra lowered the gear for me. Ooooh, spooky. So I am a big fan of gear safe systems now!
On the Electra it was simply the 1/4 turn connector not seated and I learned to cycle the gear after assembly at the field, but on the Hawk it turned out to be the main gear cylinder on the stock CARF gear had actually unscrewed itself a 1/2 turn, the leak was at the cylinder threads past the oring. Simply tightening it solved the problem. Also when I removed the gear to inspect it I found 3 of the big flat head machine screws holding the gear actuator side plates (red anodized) together were loose, one of the screws had backed out several mm. So I applied Loctite to all those screws on both sides and a bit also on the cylinder threads for the one that had loosened. FYI.
Old 12-24-2013, 11:54 AM
  #1705  
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OK, so just a description now and a few more pictures in a bit - I have to keep progress going after all or I'll not finish by spring...

For the APU exhaust, here's what I did:

- carefully cut out the hole for the exhaust along the lines in the fuselage. I started the rough cut with a Dremel router, then went to a Dremel drum sander, and finished up with a fine circular file and some fine sand paper

- cover the area around the hole with painter's tape to help protect the finish

- I made the exhaust tube with a rolled piece of thin metal. I used some sheet copper I had around, but aluminum or brass should work. Roll the tube so that its a bit narrower than the hole and tape one end only. The tube should be about 5-6 inches long.

- Push the tube into the hole and angle it forward inside the fuselage as much as you can - that makes it so that you can't easily see in from the top, and also, a side benefit is the tube points to the engine so you can see it during startups. Leave about 1 - 1.5 inches of the tube outside the fuselage. Also, it looks best if the seam of the tube (i.e., the edge of the rolled metal) is at the "top" of the tube when its angled forward - that way you won't see it.

- I wedged a bit of foam into the tube outside the fuselage to expand it out so that it fit tightly to the hole. Next, I *carefully* pushed it tight against the hole and tacked it to the sides on the inside of the fuselage.

- once I was happy with the angle of the tube and that there werent' any gaps between the sides of the tube and the hole in the fuselage, I put a fillet of Aeropoxy around the edges of the tube on the inside of the fuselage. Let that set overnight.

- put some CA along the seam in the tube on the inside to bond the edge down.

- *Carefully* use a Dremel cutoff wheel to cut the tube on the outside of the fuselage off. I left about 1/8" remaining to be sure I didn't hit the outside of the fuse with the cutoff wheel. I then ground the edges of the tube flush with the fuselage side with a sanding drum.

- Fill in any gaps between the tube and the fuse sides on the outside - any "blemishes" you made on the fuse sides or the tube will be covered up when you finish it. Sand the edges of the tube/fuse joint smooth.

- I painted the inside of the tube with Model Masters "jet exhaust" color paint.

- the final step is to cover the top of the fuse around the exhaust with aluminum tape. the best way is to mask off the area to be tapes (there is a panel line to define it - see the pictures), lay the aluminum tape over the area, press it down, then trim it with a *sharp* #11 blade (change it several times as yu are trimming, a *sharp* edge is needed.

- remove the masking tape, and the aluminum tape over it, and you'll be left with the proper shape around the exhaust...

More on the intakes later...

Bob
Old 12-24-2013, 02:38 PM
  #1706  
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Originally Posted by rhklenke
OK, so just a description now and a few more pictures in a bit - I have to keep progress going after all or I'll not finish by spring...

For the APU exhaust, here's what I did:

- carefully cut out the hole for the exhaust along the lines in the fuselage. I started the rough cut with a Dremel router, then went to a Dremel drum sander, and finished up with a fine circular file and some fine sand paper

- cover the area around the hole with painter's tape to help protect the finish

- I made the exhaust tube with a rolled piece of thin metal. I used some sheet copper I had around, but aluminum or brass should work. Roll the tube so that its a bit narrower than the hole and tape one end only. The tube should be about 5-6 inches long.

- Push the tube into the hole and angle it forward inside the fuselage as much as you can - that makes it so that you can't easily see in from the top, and also, a side benefit is the tube points to the engine so you can see it during startups. Leave about 1 - 1.5 inches of the tube outside the fuselage. Also, it looks best if the seam of the tube (i.e., the edge of the rolled metal) is at the "top" of the tube when its angled forward - that way you won't see it.

- I wedged a bit of foam into the tube outside the fuselage to expand it out so that it fit tightly to the hole. Next, I *carefully* pushed it tight against the hole and tacked it to the sides on the inside of the fuselage.

- once I was happy with the angle of the tube and that there werent' any gaps between the sides of the tube and the hole in the fuselage, I put a fillet of Aeropoxy around the edges of the tube on the inside of the fuselage. Let that set overnight.

- put some CA along the seam in the tube on the inside to bond the edge down.

- *Carefully* use a Dremel cutoff wheel to cut the tube on the outside of the fuselage off. I left about 1/8" remaining to be sure I didn't hit the outside of the fuse with the cutoff wheel. I then ground the edges of the tube flush with the fuselage side with a sanding drum.

- Fill in any gaps between the tube and the fuse sides on the outside - any "blemishes" you made on the fuse sides or the tube will be covered up when you finish it. Sand the edges of the tube/fuse joint smooth.

- I painted the inside of the tube with Model Masters "jet exhaust" color paint.

- the final step is to cover the top of the fuse around the exhaust with aluminum tape. the best way is to mask off the area to be tapes (there is a panel line to define it - see the pictures), lay the aluminum tape over the area, press it down, then trim it with a *sharp* #11 blade (change it several times as yu are trimming, a *sharp* edge is needed.

- remove the masking tape, and the aluminum tape over it, and you'll be left with the proper shape around the exhaust...

More on the intakes later...

Bob
So Bob, while Louie was doing all this, were you perusing the latest RCJI?
Old 01-03-2014, 11:02 AM
  #1707  
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A bit off topic, but big thanks to everyone, especially Dave, who contributed to this thread, I've read the whole from the beginning.
I know, this thread is for Jet but I´m very curious about Dave's EDF Hawk if any progress? since august last year.
It's because I own a Comp ARF Hawk EDF that has been on my shelf for a year. Build by Manfred Greve in Germany.
It crashed with the second owner here in Sweden and have been repaired without considering the finish and safety :-) and been test flown without any problems by the third owner. So I am the fourth owner and I intend to start looking into it.
Have not decided yet if it will be a "real" jet or edf, as the assembly was done the thrust tube had a kick up, (10-20 deg guess 100mm long) at the rear end, so I suppose it must have made considerable vector effect? and I see that Dave has taken off / leveled the inlet ring to lower the fan as much as possible to avoid the issue. I´d love to hear a comparing between the two kinds

regards from Per in Sweden

pic below as it looks today

.
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:46 AM
  #1708  
Dave Wilshere
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Per
I was supposed to finish and fly it at JP 2013 for Daniel Schubeler, but I spectacularly failed to finish it and although I have made progress, I stopped work on it to build other projects.I should finish a customers UF in the next week and then I'll finish off the Hawk. I was fitting full scale cockpit last job. No compromise just because its EDF,it even has the heavier scale U/C. The customer I'm building it for has also a turbine 2010 Hawk which I'll build after his SkyGate 2010 Hawk! YEP he likes Hawks and 2010 scheme! If weight becomes an issue I'll swap the sports gear for scale between the two small Hawks.
I have the EDF fan just above the wing surface as I lined that up as close to what I needed. I also have NACA type ducts in the wing top surface to draw air through the open gear doors on take-off. I have also opened the "bunny ears" . (I know Manfred had holes in his wing too, so we are on the same page.I also reduced the inlet lip to gain area and have slotted the separators to allow even more air in. I cleaned the tail opening out to a maximum and elongated the hole vertically a little to get as much outlet area as its a little small for ideal on a scale type jet and the DS94HST.

I'll kick myself in the butt and get on!

Dave

Last edited by Dave Wilshere; 01-03-2014 at 11:48 AM.
Old 01-03-2014, 11:59 AM
  #1709  
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You are incredible, thanks for your reply, so fast, so if I'm watching this thread I will not miss the future with the EDF version. Good luck with all the projects.

Thanks from Per
Old 01-03-2014, 12:28 PM
  #1710  
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Originally Posted by Dave Wilshere
Per
I was supposed to finish and fly it at JP 2013 for Daniel Schubeler, but I spectacularly failed to finish it and although I have made progress, I stopped work on it to build other projects.I should finish a customers UF in the next week and then I'll finish off the Hawk. I was fitting full scale cockpit last job. No compromise just because its EDF,it even has the heavier scale U/C. The customer I'm building it for has also a turbine 2010 Hawk which I'll build after his SkyGate 2010 Hawk! YEP he likes Hawks and 2010 scheme! If weight becomes an issue I'll swap the sports gear for scale between the two small Hawks.
I have the EDF fan just above the wing surface as I lined that up as close to what I needed. I also have NACA type ducts in the wing top surface to draw air through the open gear doors on take-off. I have also opened the "bunny ears" . (I know Manfred had holes in his wing too, so we are on the same page.I also reduced the inlet lip to gain area and have slotted the separators to allow even more air in. I cleaned the tail opening out to a maximum and elongated the hole vertically a little to get as much outlet area as its a little small for ideal on a scale type jet and the DS94HST.

I'll kick myself in the butt and get on!

Dave
Dave,
With all this building going on, how do you have time to run a business?

And while I'm asking questions, I seem to remember you posted somewhere in this thread how you installed the flap covers but I can't seem to find it. I'm getting ready to do that and I always like to see how everyone else does it before deciding the way that seems best for me. Thanks.
Old 01-03-2014, 12:55 PM
  #1711  
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Since the majority with turbine power seem to want down-thrust (i.e., turbine higher than pipe exit - pipe angled down towards the aft end), don't you want that with an EDF too? Granted, the efflux velocity with an EDF is much less, so the effect of pipe angle may be smaller, but I would think that it would at least be in the same direction, EDF vs. turbine?

Bob
Old 01-03-2014, 01:01 PM
  #1712  
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Originally Posted by afterburner
Dave,
With all this building going on, how do you have time to run a business?

And while I'm asking questions, I seem to remember you posted somewhere in this thread how you installed the flap covers but I can't seem to find it. I'm getting ready to do that and I always like to see how everyone else does it before deciding the way that seems best for me. Thanks.
Marty, look at post 1442 and on...


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-j...l#post11629764
Old 01-03-2014, 01:38 PM
  #1713  
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Per. Thanks!? ;-)

AB
I sleep approx 5 hours a night, rest of the time is split, Business/hobby/three kids and a wife. My mother is 80 today so had to fit in time for her too (more important than everything else today!)
The building now is part of my business as the UK hobby market is in free fall. I took on builds to make up some of the sales loss. Trouble is a quiet business takes more free time than a busy one!

Flap covers.
Balsa insert and trim down to fit wing surface. Flap section cut down enough to go inside the main sections at full flap. Mine are CA'd on so if a gear up landing ever happened they would come clean off.

The DS 94 is a lot larger dia than a turbine so has to sit high already to clear the wing...
Old 01-03-2014, 01:54 PM
  #1714  
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Thanks Rich and Dave.

Happy Birthday to your mom Dave!

Rich, you either have a photographic memory or are the "search engine king".
Old 01-03-2014, 02:03 PM
  #1715  
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Thank you, will pass it on in the morning, I'm taking her to see my middle sister, with my biggest sister who is over from Santa Barbara CA.

D
Old 01-06-2014, 08:59 AM
  #1716  
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Dave no hurri with the EDF project, I have just decided to sell edf unit, and invest in "kero jet", I'll renovate it as new, hopefully not heavier,
With permission :-) from pilot, short movie by me from the crash.

http://youtu.be/jk1crJe8Ml8

These doors was blowing up by wind.

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Old 01-06-2014, 11:34 AM
  #1717  
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Can't see from the video..Flaps? acceleration looked fine, the Hawk normally floats off. But wind from where? He starts off at an angle...into wind? Then straightens down runway before pulling hard?

Not surprised the doors open, even with the EDF Fan sucking them closed. Our EDF Hawk is as a turbine, just without the turbine stuff!

Dave
Old 01-08-2014, 05:30 PM
  #1718  
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I don't mean to be harsh, but my guess is - 1) horsed off the ground too soon in response to approaching edge of the runway (lack of directional control), 2) roll right due to right rudder at rotation from late steering correction and cross wind, 3) stall caused by excess elevator from 1), and in response to aggressive roll to the right, and then 4) ground impact...

I hate to see it, but I may have waited for a better day, and I may not always succeed, but I strive to have the runway center line be bisected by the nose wheel *throughout* the takeoff roll - and landing as well, if possible. Many, many jet takeoffs have ended in grief when directional control down the runway is not maintained...

Bob
Old 01-08-2014, 07:17 PM
  #1719  
Gary Arthur
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Originally Posted by rhklenke
I don't mean to be harsh, but my guess is - 1) horsed off the ground too soon in response to approaching edge of the runway (lack of directional control), 2) roll right due to right rudder at rotation from late steering correction and cross wind, 3) stall caused by excess elevator from 1), and in response to aggressive roll to the right, and then 4) ground impact...

I hate to see it, but I may have waited for a better day, and I may not always succeed, but I strive to have the runway center line be bisected by the nose wheel *throughout* the takeoff roll - and landing as well, if possible. Many, many jet takeoffs have ended in grief when directional control down the runway is not maintained...

Bob
Bob, I think you have nailed it.
Old 01-12-2014, 10:51 PM
  #1720  
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Time for a picture, this one on a grey day after flight #57, hopefully the sun will shine tomorrow and I can get some flying pics.
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:43 PM
  #1721  
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About the video I agree with Gary when he says, "Bob, I think you have nailed it"
Very good analysis.

husafreak! very nice picture, I need inspiration so thanks, now I´m just tearing everything out of my hawk, your color scheme is my favorite but I think I'll stay with the U.S. Navy because I´ve to paint it all over, it takes so much time with masking.

Need to adjust the elevator shaft also, rised 2mm on one side so it was more than 10mm at the elevator tips, first time I brought the plane home and put it together my neighbour came over and had a look when he said it looks strange here... and when you have seen it once you..well I only see that, all the time. Apparently it was factory installed that way. Flap rods bending bad as well, so the servo screws was loose, will make distance for the servos as seen in this thread, maybe carbon stiffen them also.

Any one have drawing for plywood parts? or I´ve to draw myself, I do have a CNC mill.


Steel axle in elev. axle hole.


What I´m dreaming of, except the decal on the elevator next time.


Best regards from Per
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:06 AM
  #1722  
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Well, you have your work cut out for you, but it will be worth it! And yes you have to fix the stab, it will always look bad if you don't, real airplanes are not crooked More inspirational photos from yesterday:
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:10 AM
  #1723  
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Very nice, I'm envious! I want to go fly mine but, it's freezing here right now

Mike
Old 01-14-2014, 11:03 AM
  #1724  
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There are 3 great reasons to live in California:
1. The weather
2. The weather
3. The weather
Old 01-14-2014, 11:10 AM
  #1725  
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Very nice photos, and here the rain have gone to snow last days, but it makes it easy to stay indoor and work. Just remeber I´ve some (128) photos from Karlskoga Jet meet /Sweden summer 2010 http://www.hustomten.com//Jet/index.html hadn´t looked at them for more then a year myself.



That weekend it was like the California sun even here.
But right now we are waiting for the lakes to freeze so we can sail our iceyachts, very close now 4cm ice today.
Have done the drawing for plywood steer wheel construction and hope to cut tomorrow.

Regards from Per
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