Ok,
Whilst we are on the subject of gluing, can somebody please give the steps to making a good glue joint, and making a good glue fillet. Things like prep and how much fiber to use (what is the best fiber to use etc). I would like to see the differing techniques.

I know this is pretty basic stuff, but there are some of us new to the hobby/new to hysol/epoxies.

Thanks in advance.

Tim

Oliver

i kinda switched from AeroPoxy to Vpoxy because i didnt want to wait for stuff to cure.

you list it as "repair" poxy. are you or others recommending that it not be used in the regular building process? i am just about "finally" ready to start on a Lightning and like the speed of the Vpoxy but dont want to lose any strenght. i also have 5 tubes of the Vpoxy NIB and 3 of the Aeropoxy NIB.

general comments welcome.

thanks

Joe, I just use E-20HP as repair epoxy because it is quite fluid compared to the 9462 and E-20NS. In fact the strength of this product is quite good. So in pure terms of physical properties, there is no problem in using it for building.

Joe, there will always be a compromise, faster setting adhesives generally cure with less strength than slower adhesives, in the case of modelling 9462 (aeropoxy) or 9464 which is almost identical except grey in colour when mixed (cheaper than Aeropoxy in the UK) are the strongest. I tend like Olivier to use a faster setting epoxy in areas which do not require massive structural strength, RT112 from Resintech in the UK is great for a 3-4 hour cure, and sets so you can handle it in 15-20 mins.
There are so many options out there its just what suits you best, although I would swallow the pill and use a slow set for main formers and other key structural fixings.

marcs

thank you both for your thoughts.

the Vpoxy has been fine as far as its thickness for my applications. and i totally agree that for formers, i would go with the slower stuff, even if BVsays VPoxy is just fine.

last question on this stuff. i store it at RT. is there a "shelf life" for it if stored at RT? i always seem to buy extra of stuff because i hate to run out, but in this case i was planning on building over the winter and now that the flying season is here, its time to build!!

joe

I also have a lot of glue cartridges since I supply all my friends around. I have some cartridges that are over 6 months old. I have never had any issue with that. Storing at RT as well.

i was thinking 1 year, maybe 2?

Well, I've never kept a cartridge more than 6 months. So I can't help you here...

No-one willing to give their gluing secrets up?

What I particularly wanted to know was: a) a good source for milled fiber (or if you used other substitutes), for example, I have read that some make their own milled fiber from sandings of fiberglass?? and b) how to make a good strong fillet. Thanks.

Tim

thanks. i'll probably just contact the Hysol folks.

never had any issues but you know how that goes!

</p>

Hysol recommends storage of 9462 at temperatures between 8 and 21&deg; C (46 to 70&deg; F) in an unopened container.
But they alsowarnagainststorage at a temperature higher than 28&deg; C (82.4&deg; F) for extended periods.
No hint on the shelflife.
At the rate I use it,shelf lifeis not a problem.

so they claim in excess of 3 yrs if stored in no light and in a cool place (below 70° F but not in the fridge)

thanks guys. i guess i better start glueing everything in sight before itime out!!!

my RTis not 70, but its not much above that and in the basement work area frequently below that.

I get my milled fibers,cotton flock,&amp; micfo-balloons from
www.wright-flyr.com

Thanks Jimbo for your anwser.

Which of the milled fiber, cotton flock and microballoons is the best, and in which situation(s) do you use?

Tim.

Has anyone had any success using West's epoxy products?  They are pretty tough!  I am using the 105 resin on several projects.  They advertise it as an adhesive too.

i use it all the time. if i use it as an adhesive i thicken it with 406 Colloidal Silica, sometimes i use micro fibers it just depends on the application.

Hi all,

Cleaning procedur and preparation of the joint is the most important. I have used a lot of Hysol and similar stuff, compared to 24 hours epoxi mixed with ballons/fibers. I must say that at some point your own mixture in combination with a good epoxi gives a real trustfully joint. Of course, the Hysol "system" in use is much more easy to use, but very expensive.</p>

Cleaning: Aceton followed by grindingpaper followed by cleaning with  10% vinegar alcoholoic. THATS THE PROCEDURE</p>

Thanks Pipecleaner.

How much fiber/microballoons do you add? I have heard the consistency of peanut butter?

Tim

Like peanut, yes. When mixing with fibers (cellulose) I let the mixture "rest" for 5-10 minutes in order to let the fibers "soften". Which means it will be a bit easier to handle.
I sometimes use ballons in conjunction with the fibers, but just to get the mixture tixotropy.

Have a nice weekend all of you guys..

Thanks for your reply Pipecleaner.

You have a good weekend too. I have will have a good weekend, as I get to pick up my Yellow Aircraft F-16c from Melbourne on Monday morning. The amazing thing about the package getting shipped from the US to Australia, was that it took 4 days to get fromBoston to Sydney, then 5 days (plus 2 for the weekend) for the package to get from Sydney to Melbourne, and for the broker to clear the package through customs. Talking about a slow process. At one time, they were talking about having to quarantine the package because it contained wood products (balsa wood). If you take the tracking website as gospel, this package went from Boston to Melbourne, then to Sydney, then to Melbourne again. And the broker took all day today (from my call at 9.30 am to 3.45) to fill out the customs declaration (self assessed clearance). Next time, I think I will try and do it myself. Anyone done this for themselves? And they shut up shop at 4.30 (being a Friday) so I couldn't drive there in time to pick up. So I have to wait the weekend. It's like waiting for Christmas when you were a kid!

Tim

I used to use epoxies for bonding but now I only use methacrylate adhesives. They are used for gluing the aluminium monocoque of the Lotus Elise together, as well as gluing aluminium sail tracks onto carbon fibre masts for the super maxi  yachts, with no rivets at all. Pretty awesome stuff. They stick to glass laminates much better than anything else I've ever used, as well as gluing aluminium and a lot of plastics. The only thing I wish they would glue properly is Nylon, but then I don't know of any glue which does actually give a chemical bond with nylon.

Here's the stuff I use, it made by ITW-Plexus, although in UK I believe it's the same or similar to Devweld 530:

http://www.itwplexus.com/home.html

I use the MA-310. It's thixotropic, sets pretty good in one hour and sticks like crazy. The really good thing about them is they can stick to oily surfaces, they are so aggressive they will eat through the oil - although I would always recommend cleaning the surface first. I use MA-310 in the construction of the SM110-52 EDF unit, for gluing the aluminium casting into the polycarbonate shroud, as well as gluing the carbon fibre spinner onto the carbon reinforced polycarbonate rotor. It also glues PETG, which is good if you mould canopies from it.

Hi Stu,

What's the price of MA-310 compared to Aeropoxy/Hysol 9462 (say I buyAeropoxy, 2 tubes at a time for say US$13.25 per tube, plust US$10.00 postage to Australia (that would be about US$18.00 per tube)? Can you get MA-310 in Australia via website? Does it do good ply to glass joints (where I mostly use Hysol)?

Tim.

Tim, I get it direct from FGI at Brookvale, 400g tube costs about $40 or so. The gun for it is expensive, and not really necessary, I got by using a single silicone gun and switched from tube to tube. I don't use mixing nozzles, just squeeze it out onto an icecream container lid and mix. It sticks ply to glass like nothing I've ever used. One good thing is that it isn't affected by temperature, so when it's freezng cold it doesn't get brittle like epoxy.

Thanks Stu,

I might give it a go. I just purchased another 2 tubes of aeropoxy, and now they are charging US$10 per tube to send. Might be the last aeropoxy I get sent to Australia for quite some time. It cost me A$60 for the 2 tubes. Costs more than liquid gold and nearly as expensive as inkjet printer ink!

Tim