A thorough range check was performed on my F-16 by some great and very experienced guys a few weeks back. At least 10-12 guys put their equipment down to help out the new guy and I am very appreciative..

Our first check in range check mode at 100' was uneventful. I took a little jog down to the end of the runway (at least 1500 ft or so) and began operating my elevators full up to full down as quickly as I could, As instructed. When I came back the guys had noticed that their travel was at times asymetrical.

I don't feel it is appropriate to name anyone but a gentleman who is very well known in the jet community advised me to "Y" my elevators together as he felt their may have been a slight miscommunication in the dual elevator program. My elevators were on 48" extensions (they could be 36" Im not exactly sure its been a little while..)

I added a Y to the extensions, Me and another gentleman used a programmer to reverse one and messed around to get the settings right.

The elevator halfs now operate uniformly during the same test conditions, There is no sign of asymetry.

It's been a couple weeks, I still have a hard time going to sleep thinking of all that wire..

Thanks, Pete

That's normal. You could custom made your own servo extensions to minimize length, but in the end you will still have a lot of wires, though on an F-16 there isn't much.

Use Aluminum tape to attach the wires to the fuselage, routed neatly along the fuselage so they don't touch the hot tailpipe. You should be ok.

Ahhh. My ulcer feels better now!

Thanks, Pete

I had the same fear when I put together my Bandit ARF. I actually added extensions with amplifiers becasue of the 50" + length of the wires, which didn't work that great withe my 2.4GhZ system, so the amplifiers had to go out!

Routing the wires neatly takes practice, you will get better everytime.

David

Thanks David, I the wires are running through heat shrink tubes and they are epoxied away from the tailpipe, At least 3 inches or so. Its actually nice and neat. Just dont look under the managment deck [:@]

Pete

I have no idea what this means. What is a "slight miscommunication" in a program in the transmitter and why would it happen "at times" ?!? I say you have something serious going on there and I, personally, would not fly that aircraft until I had it sorted out. Programming elevators on different channels is used *all the time* and should work perfectly, and consistently...

Bob

Yah, personally, running them with two different channels is the easiest way (in my opinion) of setting up a dual elevator system. Seperate sub-trims, end points, etc. If you have something happening in the radio, I would address that first.

Chad

He didn't care to get into the details of it, It was probably beyond my experience level anyway. He did say he has seen it before and it was a result of a difference in signal distrubution between a ELEV and AUX channel. The asymetry would usually develop when the elevator travel was first done quickly as opposed to slow and smooth.

So far the Y has done it's job..

pete

A matchbox will do the trick there as well.
V..</p>

Pete,

Are are you on 72 and using a 10X? If so, what you experienced is normal. Matchboxes are the rule of the day.

It is supposedly not an issue with the 9303 and 12X.

Beave

PS. You worry too much...just go fly!

Hey Beave,

Nope Im on a 12FG and 6014FS.

I am kind of a worry wart [&o]

Pete

OHNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FATUBA??????????????????????????????????? EEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Just kidding...

Beave

HUH!?!? Whats wrong with Futaba?? Is something wrong with the FG?? Oh no???!!!??? [X(][&o]

Pete,

You certainly can use a Matchbox to do what you did and while excess cable is not a great thing, it likely won't cause you a problem.

That being said, with a 12FG and a 6014, you should NOT need a Matchbox to do what you are trying to do. The 12FG is *made* to do this and has a servo grouping function *specifically* to synchronize servos. In fact, with the 12FG, you could connect 2 servos on different channels to the same surface and you can adjust them so that they are synchronized just like they were connected to a Matchbox. Clearly the "expert" does not have a lot of experience doing this with a 12FG, but it can easily be done - you have to connect the two servos to the correct channels on the RX and set it up correctly in the radio itself, but if you do so, the elevators will track perfectly, regardless of how fast you move the sticks...

Ya just gotta' know what you are doing...

Bob

[quote]ORIGINAL: rhklenke

Pete,

You certainly can use a Matchbox to do what you did and while excess cable is not a great thing, it likely won't cause you a problem.

That being said, with a 12FG and a 6014, you should NOT need a Matchbox to do what you are trying to do. The 12FG is *made* to do this and has a servo grouping function *specifically* to synchronize servos. In fact, with the 12FG, you could connect 2 servos on different channels to the same surface and you can adjust them so that they are synchronized just like they were connected to a Matchbox. Clearly the

Bob, I had the elevators setup via simply reversing one in the radio and then adjusting them to match. They were sync'd perfectly untill I walked a quarter mile away and excercised them quickly. I did not use any "group" function. Can you show me how this is done please?

Pete

Sometimes the "Expert" is an "Old timer" that is resistant to change.
I have grouped my primary flight controls in 12FG it was a snap.
I'm even an "Old timer" but I love and embrace change.

Would you mind telling me about this grouping process?

Pete

</p><div><span style="font-size: 9pt">Pete
What Bob says is correct, Group the 2 servo outlets and align as needed.
There is not much you cannot do with the 12FG.

Paul</span></div>

Does it play music like the 14Mz :-)

Look at the servo monitor you will see at the bottom of each output a name. Write down the channel and the name under each.
Go into the Function menu you can call up each channel and change the name.
You will see channel 1 is the Elevator, so I used Channel 1 for my left elevator and channel 6 for right Elevator.
Then you can change the direction of travel if need. AFR is used to control the overall travel, endpoints handle the individual channel.

Make SURE they are BOTH called Elevator sometimes you have to scroll through the list. you DO NOT want "Elevator 2" for the second output.

OK, fair point

Awesome!

So once they're grouped Im going to stay in the AFR menu for tweaking. I wonder what the difference is between grouped and non-grouped?

Pete

If you are referring to the grouped in the AFR menu I believe that has to do condition selects and allowing your trims to be independent in each
condition select.

The AFR adjust the travel of both grouped channels simultaneously, Use end points to "Match" the two channels.

Pete,

The digital informaiton on servo position is encoded by the TX in a pulse train, which takes a finite amount of time to transmit. As the radio operates, the pulse train gets sent over + over again to encode the positions of the sticks, dials +switches on the transmitter. The RX decodes, and puts out servo signals. The update rate is slower on 72 MHz systems than 2.4 Ghz systems. That's why the 2.4 systems feel more responsive. Fut and JR are having a marketing war over it now .. JR came out with the "SE" version of their radios, which were slightly faster than the stock Futaba 2.4 system .. and they are crowing about "Faster than Fast" (meaning Faster than FASST) .. they are 11 ms frame rate. Then Futaba came out with a series of faster RXs that are 7 ms update. Let the fun begin. Good luck if you can tell the difference .. Idon't think Iam that good :-)

Anyway, two channels, mixed to one another, should move together . if set up properly . .and will do so if the stick is moved slowly. But if the stick is moved very fast the delay between the update on one channel and another is actually visible. On the newer Futaba radios (don't know about JR, someone can chime in...), channels are grouped into small blocks of channels .. and within a block they update simultaneously, so that the delays occur between blocks, but within a block (of several channels) they all update together. It is good practice to put "related"channels together in groups, like ailerons, flaps, elevators, dual rudders, etc. All documented nicely in the manual.

As Bob says, one of the joys of a many-channel radio is not needing matchboxes, and wiring all servos direct. Makes setups very fast and easy. The grouping was created to get around the delay that is intrinsic with the idea of encoding the channel positions in a pulse train.

If this is NOTwhat was the observed "problem" with your plane then Iagree w/Bob .. find out what was up .. these gremlins, when ignored, ALWAYScome back to bite... if this was the problem, handle it with grouping. In all honesty, Idon't think it was ever much of a real issue, since we would not tend to make super-fast stick movements .. and in any case after a few milliseconds, the channels would be back to agreement. But it was still creepy to see the elevator halves move in slightly mismatched motion...

Dave

Thanks for all the help guys!

Pete