FlyJ

As the build of my Ultra Bandit nears an end and its almost time for programming, I was wondering if anyone uses crow on their Ultra Bandit for landings. On another one of my jets the manual had no mention of crow at all but I was told by some people flying the same plane that crow was the best for landings. What are you guys using? And if you don't use crow do you need to change the elevator position between normal flight, takeoff and landing flaps?

Jordan

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

Jordan,

You won't need crow, thos flaps are so big it slows down nicely. I did add a touch of down elevator to my flaps mix, you probably want to fly a couple of landings first and see what you think.

David Reid
BVM Rep

rcjet lynch

I did the same thing with mine, a small touch of down with full flap, I also raised my idle rpm.

billtulsa

Here is what I have found with the UB. If you use full flaps for landing the airspeed has to be reduced so much just before touch down to be able to keep the nose gear from touching first. I found that a little uncomfortable. I like the plane to approach nose high so the touch down speed is not quite as critical. The first two UB landings I witnessed, (not my plane), at least one landing gear was torn out of each due to porpoising because the nose gear hit first. This is not a plane you want to get bouncing down the runway.

Here is what I found works great:

Ailerons- Crow to 5/8" up measured at the trailing edge, outboard tip.

Flaps- Make a new template and set for 30 degrees.

Both flaps and crow ailerons will cause the plane to pitch up, need down elevator mix with both. Have them on a separate switch so you can set a takeoff flap position as well.

Bill C.

FlyJ

Thanks for the replies...
I guess I'll have to do a little experimenting to see what works best for me...

jetpilot

My Feedback: (48)

My opinion, if your nose is touching down first then ur nose heavy or coming in way too hot. Its a very easy airplane to land with just flaps. The trick is knowing when to get out of the power. I force myself to get out of the power sooner and on the back turn it looks like it might be getting too slow, I guess because its soo big, and it comes around and lands right in front of me. If ur having any problems its probably just coming in too hot, which isnt the airplanes ability to slow down, just ur inablility to throttle back sooner.
I have zero experience with Crow, BTW, but the Ultra will slow down with recommended flaps for perfect nose high landings.
The UB is a glider and doesnt fall out of the sky without power but will slow down with throttle management.
I would like to try crow but at this point I wouldnt change a thing on mine.
mine landing at 1:31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCBJgOohQcQ
Scott

ravill

My Feedback: (11)

Like Bill said, I've seen quite a few "bad" landings with the Ultra. Just do a google video/youtube search and you'll see plenty of weird last minute flares, bouncing and porpoising with the ultra.

Those wings are HUGE!! I bet it'll be like a Kingcat, a floater. I've added crow to all my sport jets and this one will be no different.

Crow makes lightly wingloaded airplanes get a nice descent rate faster, helps avoid tip stalling by increasing effective washout, and will help bleed speed if the jet comes in "too hot".

1/2"-5/8" inch crow sounds exactly what I'll use when I set my Ultra up.

I'd say do it.

And really, if someone is landing a jet with the nose wheel touching down first, then maybe they need more practice.

Raf

Edited to make the red stand out.

ravill

My Feedback: (11)

Scott, that's a great vid! That ultra with the lights and the dusk landing look absolutely awsome!!

Raf

jetpilot

My Feedback: (48)

I dont know who the owner was of that Ultra but it was decked out!! The cockpit was unbelievable and lights amazing!!
Scott

Dustin Buescher

Ed Ritsko built that amazing ultra. We will have some shots of it on the Bvm site soon. I could have flared a little more but the lights were distracting!!! Ha ha... That ultra is as smooth as glass when it flies.

FlyJ

I don't debate that the flaps are large enough to slow the plane down, but crow has a different use. Crow enhances flow at low speeds which helps the plane settle on landing. I've also been told that crow helps the plane stick to the ground on touch down. I'm sure crow isn't necessary, but do you think it might help the slow speed handling?

ravill

My Feedback: (11)

Yes.

Raf

billtulsa

Guess I could have been more clear.

Certainly crow is not necessary but it does keep the ailerons effective into higher angles of attack. Also does help the plane stick the mains in a wider airspeed envelope without the bounce. Nice to have when you fly from a 300-400 foot runway.

Bill

pilott28

My Feedback: (27)

I am going to agree with Scott on this one. In talking to David on where to set the CG he advised that the factory setting was too far forward. He told me to set the CG so that the aircraft would just drop to the tail with a slight push up on the nose with the canopy off. If the CG is set far enough aft, there shouldn't really be any tendency for the plane to land fast or on the nose. As Scott points out, these are typical signs the plane is nose heavy. As I usually land with fuel in the center aux tank, I did the CG with it full.

Having said this, the plane will bounce if the landing speed is too high or the approach is not stable. I think every BVM sport jet I have owned seems optimized for pure flying but has a narrower acceptable speed range on landing. Too fast or too slow equals bounce. I have good success with mine if I fly a very flat approach with gradual bleed off of power through base and final right to touchdown, adjusting for wind as I go. Use plenty of expo on the elevators so the corrections can be made smoothly. The flaps are very effective at slowing the plane.

I have never tried crow as I didn't feel the plane really needed it, but I would be interested in further posts from those of you who do try it.