Hey guys, I am looking into flying jets. What would be a good one to start on?Nitro DF or EDF? Any thoughts or recommendations would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

http://www.skymasterjet.com/dragon.htm

with a k80

my 2c

Great choice. I love mine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjOdUReaIpw

I will raise George's 2c (maybe it is in Euros) to 5c (US).... Go to the Boomerang Nano or Sprint.

Cheers
Rick

Boomerang Sprint and and any 14-22 lb turbine. Easy to fly, a lot of fun and you can get into one cheap. It wont need high end servos (Hitech 645s all around), it uses basic, generic landing gear and you can get a used P-80 or similar for a good price.

He asked about nitro DF or EDF - I think.

EDF all the way. Much less complicated than nitro DF, more reliable, and better power/weight, etc.

I looked at your profile. looks like you have some 2 stroke RC experience. I'd say get a Habu from "Parkzone". It's an EDF ARF that looks like it's a quick fix winner with good reviews by nearly all who have flown it and it's cheap for a plug and play jet. Fly it a bunch, if you really like what it's all about, get a high quality composite EDF with pneumatic retracts, flaps, high performance and some level of building or higher level assembly required while you still fly the heck out of that Habu. The composite EDF will give you everything you will get with turbines but it will still be a jumping off point if you have second thoughts and you won't be left with a half baked $$ turbine project if you end up not liking all the fiddling involved. Jets are "attention to detail" projects. Awesome once you get into it, but some guys don't like it. Once you start in on EDF's you will know much more what you like in jets and go from there as far as turbine projects. If you really like the composite EDF and you have a chance to go to a few jet rallies to see the turbines for yourself, then get your turbine waiver on the higher performance composite EDF. You could start in on the turbine project you like, based on what you start to identify with at the rallies, friends, RCU, etc while you still fly your two EDF's to stay sharp. Take it a day at a time, enjoy the process of getting into jets. You will be more self sufficient and will enjoy jets much more if you take it in steps. I think you can do it from start to waiver in a single season (two seasons for sure) if you are motivated, fly a lot, are ready to work and are already experienced in the fundamentals of good flying skills and decision making. Have fun!

If you are not interested in turbines go EDF. All the new developments are in EDF & turbines, IC DF (they are not 'nitro' engines) are just about extinct. A few guys still run them, I suspect just to squeeze the last little bit of fun out of their considerable investments, but they are going nowhere. - John.

thanks for the info guys.  I have several 2 and 4stoke's.  My dream is to completely build and setup a turbine project but right now I just don't want to have to save for a year for something I'm not sure if I will love or not.  I checked out the Habu but are there any more "scale" models?  I have several builders in my club who all said they would help my build it. Who are some good dealers of composite's? I am excited and I can't wait to start!  I am glad someone said not to go with the nitro ducted fan as I almost purchased one but talked myself out of it.

Depends if you are looking for 70mm or 90mm or larger and whether you want a builder's plane or a true ARF. Oh, and of course, budget. There is lots of good stuff out there to choose from.

Check out SAPAC if your looking a EDF

http://www.sapac.com.cn/index.asp

Alan, you said the majic word as far as I'm concerned - "Build". A reasonably low cost entry into jets is building a balsa kit. My first thought is a Reaction 54. About $480 for the kit and add on $329 for the complete gear package and $80 for the basic wheels and an electric brake. It is not scale but with some imagination during the build you can make a very attractive jet. In my opinion, scale and entry into jets do not compute. Scale tends to demand a little more expertise from the pilot and if you don't have a lot of high performance prop experience I would wait till you get your feet wet. The R-54 is a very gentle flyer and a sloooow lander. The turbine for this bird is low cost relative to it's higher thrust brothers. A 13 to 17# thrust turbine will cost about $2K. Last thought. Jets are not inexpensive but the sound and smell of a turbine can't be beat.

My advice is to not have a builder help you "too much". Do it yourself as much as possible - sure, have them come over to see and ask a lot of questions and do research with the search function here and on RCG, but try your best to really become your own master on jets. You will never learn (in a reasonable amount of time) what it takes to fine tune a jet if you don't do it yourself from the start. My other advice is still to consider an easy to fly EDF (vs. a heavy scale jet) and fly it a lot before getting into a bad situation with a scale jet that you worked hard. Jets (and EDF's) fly differently - they respond very fast, they accelerate slower, they can auger in from base to final if you fly them like a high lift prop plane. They are NOT very hard to fly, but they are different. If you have experienced JET SPECIFIC guys in your club it can help... if not you are still going to be able to do it but you will need to be self sufficient. Keep in mind you want to give yourself a project that will just about guarantee success from the start so you can have something experience wise to "build" on with the next jet.

As far as suggestions for you - I'd be doing you a disservice to tell you what to buy in terms of a scale jet. Only you know what you like, and I don't know how you fly. Do some searches on RCGroups in the EDF forum under the types of jets you like and you'll see a million threads over there on all sorts of types. You will also start your self education by looking things up ad getting used to answering your own questions with all the massive information that's out there for you on sites like these.

I know the Habu is not amazing to look at but you will learn so much more, right away. Knowledge is power. You might even change your idea of what you are looking for in your scale build "next jet" based on your first hand experience you'll have right away.

Also, I can agree with the above - the R54 is a great suggestion. Heavy warbird guys with a lot of experience can easily walk right into a R54 build and get their waiver with very little "duck out of water" feelings. I have put many warbird guys on a buddy box with my old R54 and watched their faces light up. It flies like a big fast jet powered warbird and that means fun. You could still gain a lot of experience with bad behaving jets on EDF, but the R54 does not have a lot of bad behaviors like a scale jet often does.

Sapac makes some nice planes, but some may not be ideal first EDFs. A couple have (by second-hand account anyway) a bad slow-speed bite to them. Of course, whether that is an issue or not depends in part on the flying skills of the purchaser.

I think I may just go ahead and get a Habu and save money while im flying it. This will give me a better perspective on where and what I want to spend the money on when the time is right. thanks again guys!

If you really want a nice scale airplane then i would look at the BVM F-86 Sabre EDF. www.bvmjets.com

___________________________________________

Greg Wright

Not a JR Rep/ But Would Love To Be One!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those bvm models look great! I really like the Electra but I'm not gonna pay $1,500 for the arf unless im going turbine. Those are some great models. What are some good dealers that carry composite or fiberglass models for EDF?

Good choice on the Habu. I have one and it flys great. I would buy at least one extra battery. Horizon has all the individual replacement parts just in case you something. When I'm out running errands or something I take the Habu along and usually stop by the field and get a flight in. Just got two new batteries today so maybe I can get two or three flights in on the way home.

You have a real jet friendly field about 60 miles from you. It is a club field but is owned by and was built by jet pilots.

www.georgiajets.org

You could check out C-ARFSpark. Not the lines on an electric but cheaper. Habu would probably be a good choice - gets a lot more expensive when you go composite material. www.tamjets.com Tam has a lot of electric stuff - Ihad his 1:12th F-16, flew great, only sold it to help buy another motor. The truth is - with a composite electric - by the time you get u/c, motor, batteries, etc, you could be into a boomer nano with a small turbine. Recommend a Habu to get your feet wet.

If you're looking for a scale EDF to get you ready for turbines take a look at the planes at Jet Hangar Hobbies (www.jethangar.com) They have some EDF specific kits as well as conversions of some of thier older ICDF kits. JHH's owner Larry Wolfe has been in jets for decades and his F-86, Panther and Cougar are great flying planes with no real bad tendencies. For years the JHH F-86 was considered one of the best entry level jets on the market. They're medium size so they're easy to transport, use standard servos and basic retracts, all of which will help keep the cost down. When it comes to batteries check out Hobbyking.com. Their batteries a significantly cheaper than the name brands and in actual use people are reporting performance as good as the big names for a fraction of the cost.

Dude, the easiest jet by far hands down and perfect entry level jet is shockjet......It is the easiest to build (1 week with no jet building experience), the least expensive(300.00 if you need to purchase a turbine or 500 without), very durable(no retracts), and most importantly easy to fly and maintain control at both ends of the speed range while learning to deal with throttle lag. The plane is extremely forgiving.... if you can fly a sweet stick, you can fly a shockjet. Its so damn easy that its starting to make me sloppy on my scale birds. I tend to forget that the scale ones dont like to land at 5mph but the shockjet does. Good Luck in what ever choice you make but I can promise you it does not get any easier than the shockjet.

How long does the average turbine last? or are there any parts that need replacing sooner than others?  </p>

Alan, I'm still learning but the life of a turbine has a lot to do with how you treat it. Same as any recip (prop type engine). Typically the manufacturers suggest a teardown and inspection every 25 hours. This is normally an approved repair facility function. The most replaced items would be the bearings. You can imagine that turning at 100K + RPM the bearings have a finite life. Keep your fuel clean, use the recommended turbine oil and protect the compressor from foriegn objects by using an inlet screen (FOD screen). All this will prolong the life of your engine. Other than the bearings, the remainder of the engine should give you hundreds of hours of pleasure.

nice info! Are there any forums or how-to's on Turbine engines? tuning and maintenance maybe? I know a fair bit of how a 2 and 4 stroke motor but the thought of turbines just confuses me....