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Rudder question

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View Poll Results: A poll
I only use rudder for take off and landing.
5.61%
Option 1 + I use rudder for few manuevers while flying.
43.86%
I use rudder during my entire flight.
45.96%
What is a rudder?
4.56%
Voters: 285. You may not vote on this poll

Rudder question

Old 07-21-2010, 09:37 AM
  #1  
sirrom
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Default Rudder question

Ok. I have never done a poll before but wanted to get the opinions of jet flyers. See this whole thing was sparked by a discussion with a friend about flying. He stated that most jet pilots don't use rudder during a normal flight except for maybe take off and landing. I am very interested in seeing the numbers on this one.

Patrick
Old 07-21-2010, 11:18 AM
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erbroens
 
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Default RE: Rudder question

It depends on the occation. I never used rudder other than takeoff and landing on a 1/8 F-16 until one taileron servo failed and the rudder was used to bring the plane out of a death spiral. The rudder saved the day.
Old 07-21-2010, 11:39 AM
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sailing1
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Default RE: Rudder question

Sort of hard to fly knife edge without a Rudder.
Old 07-21-2010, 01:25 PM
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highhorse
 
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Default RE: Rudder question

I love snaps and spins. They are my "thing" and I do them every flight.
Old 07-21-2010, 01:36 PM
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invertmast
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Default RE: Rudder question

I'm constantly flying using the rudder. mostly b/c its a 90% chance we will have a cross-wind at our field, and if you aren't using rudder, your not doing it right. then in flight i'll use it for spins, snaps, knife-edge, sllllooooowwww rolls, etc..
Old 07-21-2010, 06:10 PM
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jason
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Default RE: Rudder question

So as I write this the poll says 41% of us use the rudder for the entire flight..What utter rubbish! I'd say that at least 8 of of 10 jet pilots cannot use the rudder properly. I see it at every jet meet I go to, on landing the line correction while the plane is flying towards the pilot is done on ailerons and elevator then as soon as the plane in on the ground pointing away from them the rudder miraculously starts to work. Sorry guys but some of you 41%ers are dreamers.

Jason
Old 07-21-2010, 06:44 PM
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Default RE: Rudder question


ORIGINAL: jason

So as I write this the poll says 41% of us use the rudder for the entire flight..What utter rubbish! I'd say that at least 8 of of 10 jet pilots cannot use the rudder properly.
I'm one of the remaining 2 because i know what it's for and i use it the entire flight and can't imagine NOT using it, i flew helis for a good 10 yrs before i got into jets, guess that made it just second nature to me.
Old 07-21-2010, 07:19 PM
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kevinthoele
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Default RE: Rudder question

I agree with KC. I even picked up helis to make me a better rudder pilot.
Old 07-21-2010, 07:43 PM
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Default RE: Rudder question

Your right KC, if you fly helis and then go to a plane you feel strange NOT using the rudder ! However, I do see a lot of plane pilots that do not use rudder out at the field.
Old 07-21-2010, 07:47 PM
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Default RE: Rudder question

oh believe me i see it allot too, our main club filed is 2200' x 800' of concrete, we've got people who have been flying for 50+ yrs who can't use the left stick for anything other than ground taxi and throttle adjustments (and sometimes not even those), if the wind changes direction, they'll turn and fly in the direction of the wind because the field is of such a size that they can and if they go to a location that requires you to fly with a cross wind, they don't fly or they crash trying
Old 07-21-2010, 08:29 PM
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invertmast
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Default RE: Rudder question


ORIGINAL: KC36330

oh believe me i see it allot too, our main club filed is 2200' x 800' of concrete, we've got people who have been flying for 50+ yrs who can't use the left stick for anything other than ground taxi and throttle adjustments (and sometimes not even those), if the wind changes direction, they'll turn and fly in the direction of the wind because the field is of such a size that they can and if they go to a location that requires you to fly with a cross wind, they don't fly or they crash trying

I'm glad my club isn't the only one with this issue. It drives me insane watching guys trying to land their 1/3 scale cubs that are crabbing into the wind by aileron rolling into the wind and touching down on one wheel. All the while the thing is now pointed at the flight line and pilot stations..[:@][:@][:@][:@][:@]
Old 07-21-2010, 08:46 PM
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Kelly Rohrbach
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Default RE: Rudder question

Well I would say that unless you live in the land of OZ where there is no cross wind it might be a good thing to learn to use.
Old 07-21-2010, 09:18 PM
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erbroens
 
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Default RE: Rudder question

oh believe me i see it allot too, our main club filed is 2200' x 800' of concrete, we've got people who have been flying for 50+ yrs who can't use the left stick for anything other than ground taxi and throttle adjustments
If this guys keeped flying for 50+ years, they already have my respect,no matter they didn´t use the left stick at all.

and if someone can land decently his jet without breaking it, who cares if it uses rudder or not? Many jets don´t react to a rudder input like you guys are talking about.. In a F-15 you got more opposite rolling than yaw, a F-16 can´t be snapped and the list goes on and on.

IMO the only occation that rudder is any worth on a jet, in his true form is from recovering from some problem or doing a nice low knife edge or slow roll over the runway with a plane suited for
that, like the big Viperjet (wich is currently being built for me to this purpose, by the way.. hehehe)

Old 07-21-2010, 09:21 PM
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Gordon Mc
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Default RE: Rudder question

ORIGINAL: KC36330


ORIGINAL: jason

So as I write this the poll says 41% of us use the rudder for the entire flight..What utter rubbish! I'd say that at least 8 of of 10 jet pilots cannot use the rudder properly.
I'm one of the remaining 2 because i know what it's for and i use it the entire flight and can't imagine NOT using it
Ditto - I didn't even realise just how much of the time I use rudder, until one of my spotters pointed out that my left thumb & forefinger hardly ever stay still. That made me aware of just how subconscious much of my rudder use is - I mean, I knew that I use it on knife-edges, all manner of rolling maneuvers, snaps, sideslips, landing approach etc - but I hadn't realised how much I use it even for straight & level flight. Its use is so ingrained that I just do it without thinking.

Now, if only I could make sure that I always use the CORRECT rudder input, life would be good. I still mess up occasionally during inverted flight. [X(]

Gordon
Old 07-21-2010, 10:49 PM
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speed is life
 
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Default RE: Rudder question

Hah......50 or so years ago (1961) rudder was the ONLY control for most guys..........
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...26tbs%3Disch:1

Reeds or Galloping Ghost anyone?
-Mike
Old 07-22-2010, 02:57 AM
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HarryC
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Default RE: Rudder question

I get the impression from several posts that some, maybe many, people think that you hold on into-wind rudder during crosswind flying, or a crosswind approach. No-one has said it explicitly but several imply that you should be holding on rudder in crosswinds. Is that what you actually think or have I got the the wrong impression from several of the posts?
H.
Old 07-22-2010, 04:53 AM
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Default RE: Rudder question

I have touched the rudder on occasion, usually during moments of blind panic when trying to close throttle or find switches.
Old 07-22-2010, 06:30 AM
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Default RE: Rudder question

Actually its opposite rudder in the crosswind with aileron into the wind.

I do think alot of jet guys crab into the wind and just use rudder for sliding right or left to hit the runway, which is a perfectly acceptable way to do it. Thats the way the fighters do it. That I do know from personal experience. The f-16 lands in a crab.

With swept wing airplanes, If you use the rudder too aggressively at low speed and high angles of attack, it will induce roll. So yes it is used, but judiciously..
Old 07-22-2010, 06:39 AM
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Default RE: Rudder question

With my Comp-ARF Flash, I use the rudder for knife edge, 4-pt and slow rolls, blender into an inverted flat spin, and snaps. For my scale jets, other then knife edge and slow rolls, just on take off and landings.
Old 07-22-2010, 07:17 AM
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Mach1
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Default RE: Rudder question

How weird is this...I have always used 5-10% opposite rudder on all turns.
Old 07-22-2010, 07:42 AM
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mike31
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Default RE: Rudder question

Some day those non rudder users will learn how to fly!
Old 07-22-2010, 07:46 AM
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Default RE: Rudder question

WRONG! Rudder is used to co-ordinate turns. Banking causes the nose to yaw in the opposite direction. The rudder is used to bring the nose back to the desired direction of the turn. When flying full scale the term used is step on the ball. That is the turn co-ordinator for those that don't fly full size aircraft. Using top rudder will lead to a stall, eventually.
Old 07-22-2010, 07:47 AM
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Default RE: Rudder question

I thought the rudder was for steering on the ground…. Just kidding my instructor beat it in to me so I use at least some during most turns and on landing etc. I appreciate it on those cross wind days at a event. It allows me to fly when others are sitting out.
Old 07-22-2010, 07:48 AM
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Default RE: Rudder question

Seek out, buy and read the book Stick and Rudder. Amazing stuff! The rudder is big medicine.
Old 07-22-2010, 09:04 AM
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Default RE: Rudder question

Step on the ball is a new one on me, the rudder application would be too late by the time the ball has moved to give a coordinated turn, the way I used to instruct it was as you move the stick get the knee out of the way.

Adverse Yaw is caused by the down going aileron causing more drag than the up going aileron therefore the nose goes in the opposite direction to the turn and needs rudder to coordinate the turn correctly.

Mike

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