Sonicwings

Holly CRAP... That brings New Meaning to LOW, and Spectator Safety...

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

I’m pretty sure that my brain would not have flipped into inverted flying mode to push it away as Ali did, I would probably have been trying to roll it upright and losing a lot of height in the process and probably going deeper into the forbidden zone. I might well have compounded it by throttling back which would be taking effect just as it came over towards the crowd, thus removing any chance of flying it away as Ali did. Since spectators generally enjoy seeing low fast passes and Ali who is an extremely capable pilot would be flying within the rules, I expect there is no blame on Ali for what happened, for doing what we all like to see and wish we could do ourselves, only praise for recovering it so well.

Perhaps the incident brings to light something that the whole jet community needs to think about, that maybe has not been thought about much before now, that of very low flying. Prop planes tend to be slower, and if they touch the ground like that they would lose prop blades and hence thrust, it may well stop the engine anyway, so if this had been a prop plane then had it come back off the ground it would have much less energy and be losing it pretty quickly. The jet starts with far more speed, unless a lot of fine dirt gets up the intake the engine keeps producing thrust, and throttling back will still take a time to have effect, so the jet gets airborne again with far more energy and probably not losing it because the engine is still working. Regardless of the skill of the pilot, when the model is that close to the ground it only needs tiny fluctuations in airflow or tiny errors of judgement, to bring the model into contact with the ground, so it is going to happen once in a while. Having now seen what potentially can go wrong, is there a case for a minimum height, maybe just 1 or 2 feet, at public events?

H.

madmodelman

Well saved Al, two feet min does make sense though, Gary.

Boomerang1

"A 'superior' pilot uses his superior judgement to avoid situations where he has to use his superior skills."

Those 'lightning reflexes' and a whole lot of luck.

Ali's probably a better pilot than 99% of us but I hope he learns from this near disaster and becomes a more responsible pilot than 99% of us as well. - John.

u4eake

Amen

Skymac

My Feedback: (8)

This is about the most selfish statement I have read on here in awhile when you consider looking at the video at the top of the thread... We ALL carry that responsibility.

PaulD

My Feedback: (39)

The entire video was a series of low passes. What's the point in doing this? The low pass where the wing touched 95% of the crowd probably couldn't even see the plane.

Cudos you you Ali for admitting your mistake and apologizing. I just hope that yourself and others will learn from this and rethink thier actions.

PaulD

AndyAndrews

I got my copy of the video before the usual *$%& hits the fan around here and everyone argues the usual %$#@ and the banter goes back and forth for days until the poster of the video feels forced to take it down forever.

Apparently Ali was staying within the established guidlines. The pic clearly shows that he was flying on the far side of the center line before the jet hit the ground crossing it. True, a lessor pilot following the exact same rules may not have been able to recover from that crash like Ali did. The responsibility falls not only on the pilot but on the organizers of the event.

It seems to me that the spectators are way to close to the flight line. Maybe they need to be pushed back a little next year.

Koenieboy

The distance between the centerline and the spectators is in order with the guidelines for events with modelaircraft of the Belgian Aviation authority.

Edit: With guideline I mean rule!
I thought it meant the same

SDCrashmaster

Regardless of who, what, why, or how...that was hands down the most skillful save I've ever seen.

AndyAndrews

Guidelines are not designed to overrule common sense. Maybe, and I'm just making a suggestion here, you should consider padding that distance a little to avoid a future incident that will case guidlines to become rules.

gsoav8r

My Feedback: (6)

This isnt toward anyone specifically. Just my opinion.
To me it looked to me that a lot of people got exactly what they were there for. The spectators were there to see a show and they got one. Al was there to put on a show and he did exactly that. Live entertainment carries risk.
I mean, Ive seen a baseball game where a non-observant fan got hit in the head by a ball. Ive been at a car race were a fan got killed by flying car parts when it shattered to a hundred pieces during a crash. How far do you push people away before theres nothing to see.
Everyone wants to be close to the action and conveniently dont consider the risk to themselves or if they do they think nothing harmfull can happen to them. Interesting how close equals fun and exciting while far away pretty much equates to boring.
So a few people got a closer look than they thought theyd get. Big deal. If they dont like it they should consider sitting further away next time or staying home and watching the show after the fact on TV from the percieved safety of their arm chair.
Cheers.

Matt20VT

A highly skilled and competent pilot who made a poor decision and showed poor judgement, we're all guilty of it. A lucky escape this time, our hobby doesn't need some sensationalist paper writing a story about "500mph model jet scythes through crowd" and the resultant restrictions placed on our enjoyment. Quite an arrogant reply from Ali in my opinion too.

Ali

My Feedback: (5)

It was not meant to be arrogant, sorry if it read that way. I was going more for the apologetic and embarrassed approach.
I was merely trying to raise the point that I see so many aspects of model flying ( jet included) that carry with them a big element of risk. I can run through a whole bunch of incidents that I have seen where models have ended up actually in the pitt area or the crowd area due to poor flying on the pilots behalf, yet nothing much is said about these....
Regards Al

SJN

Fantastic save....good it was not an F-16

Jim Cattanach

Not directed at any poster in particular. This has, in my opinion blown out of all proportion. I am not surprised Ali has got a little upset. What else do you want him to say? He has already apologised on more than one post about what happened & still the digs keep coming. I am sure everyone has had such a moment in their flying career. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Ali

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks Jim,
But I expected this, and to be honest I am expecting a whole heap more. It gives the "Haters" perfect ammunition. All I can do is put my hands up and say sorry, and yes learn from my mistake and on the next low pass keep it that little bit higher.
Regards Al

schroedm

My Feedback: (1)

Guys,

I'm quite sure if that had been an uneventful, clean 'touch and go' everyone would be saying 'cool', 'awesome', 'great flying' and completely forgetting the potential that could, and unfortunately did, happen in this scenario.

If it had caught and flicked away from the crowd and the same reactions were used to save it everyone would be saying 'great save', 'awesome reactions' etc. I doubt people would be saying 'what if it went the other way' etc etc

He got unlucky and it went towards the crowd. Nobody was hurt and it was a good save and I dare say shook him up.

Should it have happened? No. Did he plan it to happen? No. Too low? Basically, yes.

Do we now introduce loads of new rules? No knife edge lower than 20ft? No rolls less than 10ft? Models of 'x' span to be flown no lower than y feet, models of 'x2' span to be flown no lower than z feet........c'mon, it was a very rare mistake. I've seen more dangerous things at club meets, other shows etc etc. Look back over videos posted on here of 200mph jet passes, low passes, inverted passes, near misses - all things that could have ended in similar situations had someone else got unlucky? I don't see people commented on the vids "dude, you shouldn't have done that low knife edge pass just in case you got a bit too low and hit the deck and cartwheeled towards the pits'. Be realistic - flying is risky from the minute we start the turbine to the minute we stop it. Fortunately, good fortune is with us 99% of the time.

Al's prominence in the hobby makes him the perfect target for people to knock him and I know there will be the childish few who will be rubbing their hands with glee that it "happened to Al". I hope the people having a dig are grown up enough not to be doing it because of who it is and simply because they are so morally upstanding that they wish to convey their disgust at the mistake. If so, fine but I suggest we all have a little think about our flying and if we consider ourselves to be absolutely faultless at all times then feel free to slag Al off as you can do it with a clear conscience. In doing so, you also set yourself the target of never making a mistake from hereon in! If not, let it drop hey? T'was a mistake, he manned up and apologised publicly, has taken the flak. Move on.

Now, where's the rest of my red wine........

Flyin Beagle

My Feedback: (1)

Ali, Great Save. I will be the first to admit that I would have lost that plane in the crowd no matter what type it was. Thats why my low passes are more threatning to the buzzards circling over head rather than any spectators in the gallery.

Besides the save I was pretty impressed with the camera work. Very rarely do you see a video posted where the camera keeps up with a model in slow predictable flight let alone zoomed so close that you can see details of the plane and then not lose it in a sudden emrgency maneuver. Kudos to the camera man.

Ali, Do you have any static pics of the plane. In the video it looks very nice, I would like to see it up close

AndyAndrews

Ali,

was there any damage to the jet? Lose an aleron? It looks like it just got a little scratch but again it also looked like you were flying it with rudder on that landing.

Andy

Ali

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Andy.
It lost a nose gear door and pushed the other in which blocked the nose leg and stopped it from coming down.
The Stb Aileron link came of so this was flapping around. Other than that it was just some scuffed paint. Beagle. a Static photo for you.

gregairbus

In regards to all said here I agree Ali is a very good pilot.
But he is a professional show pilot / businessman this is not a hobbie to him but a business .
So as such he should have known better and allowed for that margin of error.
This is the difference between a professional and a hobbie pilot.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

You are a class act Ali, and an exceptional pilot, as others have said. Not many in the business with your stature and skill have such honesty and humility. I personally accept your apology and believe you when you say that you will behave differently in the future. Case closed for me...

BTW, I like eye-level passes more than on-the-deck anyway - especially airshow passes (more of a profile view), dirty passes, and inverted passes. I like watching the airplane fly more than watching how low to the ground it can fly. Just my opinion, as always...

Bob

Zack Morris

What a phenomenal pilot you really are! Amazing instinct and skill. I salute you!

Radical Departure

My Feedback: (13)

.. as the ole sayin' goes... Keep Flying the Plane!!!!