Dragon wing failure.
08-18-2010, 11:19 AM
#176
My Feedback: (13)
RE: Dragon wing failure.
George, I agree with you 100 percent. Life and limb over everything.
When I bought my Dragon, it was my second jet. My first was a Bruce Tharpe Reaction kit on which I put over 370 successfull flights. What a great design! In buying the Dragon I knew it wasn't a BVM or JMP level of model But my funds are limited and I full knew that the Dragon would require allot of extra work such as installing pin hinges, re aligning the flap hinges and general lack of instructions. I was willing to accept all this in order to have a large sport jet that I knew flys well since I had seen another club member's Dragon and I was impressed. Of course I didn't realize that what was inside that I couldn't see was going to be such a problem. Well, so be it. I figured it out on mine and I hope that other Dragon and SM owners know to check there airplanes. Thank god for these forums!
I only wish, and it is just a wish, that the Asian companies would work with us instead of against us. SM seemed to be a pretty good company until they totally dropped the ball on this. I mean they got me a replacement canopy in 1 week flat! Pretty impressive if you ask me. But when problems come up they just avoid them until it gets out of control like this situation has. If Anton had just responded to Albert and to Luis this whole thread would have been over in 3 posts.
Jim
When I bought my Dragon, it was my second jet. My first was a Bruce Tharpe Reaction kit on which I put over 370 successfull flights. What a great design! In buying the Dragon I knew it wasn't a BVM or JMP level of model But my funds are limited and I full knew that the Dragon would require allot of extra work such as installing pin hinges, re aligning the flap hinges and general lack of instructions. I was willing to accept all this in order to have a large sport jet that I knew flys well since I had seen another club member's Dragon and I was impressed. Of course I didn't realize that what was inside that I couldn't see was going to be such a problem. Well, so be it. I figured it out on mine and I hope that other Dragon and SM owners know to check there airplanes. Thank god for these forums!
I only wish, and it is just a wish, that the Asian companies would work with us instead of against us. SM seemed to be a pretty good company until they totally dropped the ball on this. I mean they got me a replacement canopy in 1 week flat! Pretty impressive if you ask me. But when problems come up they just avoid them until it gets out of control like this situation has. If Anton had just responded to Albert and to Luis this whole thread would have been over in 3 posts.
Jim
08-18-2010, 12:04 PM
#177
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RE: Dragon wing failure.
Let me just point out that BVM are now selling SM models, so they can't really be THAT bad, can they? 
And we have something close to 50 SM models flying in Norway, none of them have fallen apart.. When
there was an issue with fin flutter on the large F-16's, this was rectified very quickly. I still hope Anton and his
crew will take this situation just as serious and do the right thing as they have always done by us.
And we have something close to 50 SM models flying in Norway, none of them have fallen apart.. When
there was an issue with fin flutter on the large F-16's, this was rectified very quickly. I still hope Anton and his
crew will take this situation just as serious and do the right thing as they have always done by us.
.
08-18-2010, 12:28 PM
#179
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RE: Dragon wing failure.
ORIGINAL: icepilot
Let me just point out that BVM are now selling SM models, so they can't really be THAT bad, can they?
And we have something close to 50 SM models flying in Norway, none of them have fallen apart.. When
there was an issue with fin flutter on the large F-16's, this was rectified very quickly. I still hope Anton and his
crew will take this situation just as serious and do the right thing as they have always done by us.
Let me just point out that BVM are now selling SM models, so they can't really be THAT bad, can they?
And we have something close to 50 SM models flying in Norway, none of them have fallen apart.. When
there was an issue with fin flutter on the large F-16's, this was rectified very quickly. I still hope Anton and his
crew will take this situation just as serious and do the right thing as they have always done by us.
If so, global warming will eventually cause all that to change.
08-18-2010, 12:31 PM
#180
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RE: Dragon wing failure.
ORIGINAL: icepilot
Let me just point out that BVM are now selling SM models, so they can't really be THAT bad, can they?
And we have something close to 50 SM models flying in Norway, none of them have fallen apart.. When
there was an issue with fin flutter on the large F-16's, this was rectified very quickly. I still hope Anton and his
crew will take this situation just as serious and do the right thing as they have always done by us.
Let me just point out that BVM are now selling SM models, so they can't really be THAT bad, can they?
And we have something close to 50 SM models flying in Norway, none of them have fallen apart.. When
there was an issue with fin flutter on the large F-16's, this was rectified very quickly. I still hope Anton and his
crew will take this situation just as serious and do the right thing as they have always done by us.
If so, global warming will eventually cause all that to change.
. I keep trying to warn everyone we are under attack. The aliens don't like RC jets in their airspace.
08-18-2010, 12:33 PM
#182
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RE: Dragon wing failure.
Well, sometimes we are really hoping for some global warming up here!!
But to be (a little) serious - colder weather and denser air make our turbines produce noticably more power,
so flying in the winter time means more power and more speed!!
But to be (a little) serious - colder weather and denser air make our turbines produce noticably more power,
so flying in the winter time means more power and more speed!!
08-18-2010, 12:44 PM
#183
My Feedback: (13)
RE: Dragon wing failure.
Lior,
It would take fixing any shipping damage (mine had the top over the fuel tank crushed and the area near the front gear door cracked but Dan Davidson, (split s) fixed it expertly), making sure there were hard points for all control horns (I was missing one on the rudder and the flaps were marginal), re-milling the fowler hinge slots for the flaps (mine were not parallel), reinforcing the wing mounting tabs (the point of this thread), providing for a wing attachment method for the rear anti-rotation pins as discussed earlier in this thread, making better provisions for canopy mounting, make sure that the windshield is properly sealed (mine had a leak which is likely why the canopy flew off), make sure your main wing tube is strong enough because it seems that there are more than one variety, and I installed a longer carbon fiber rear stab tube, 14" to be exact, because SM really doesn't supply a long enough one.
I would say that this is a jet for an advanced builder but it flys so well that a jet pilot with minimal experience (need some though) can fly it with ease.
Jim
It would take fixing any shipping damage (mine had the top over the fuel tank crushed and the area near the front gear door cracked but Dan Davidson, (split s) fixed it expertly), making sure there were hard points for all control horns (I was missing one on the rudder and the flaps were marginal), re-milling the fowler hinge slots for the flaps (mine were not parallel), reinforcing the wing mounting tabs (the point of this thread), providing for a wing attachment method for the rear anti-rotation pins as discussed earlier in this thread, making better provisions for canopy mounting, make sure that the windshield is properly sealed (mine had a leak which is likely why the canopy flew off), make sure your main wing tube is strong enough because it seems that there are more than one variety, and I installed a longer carbon fiber rear stab tube, 14" to be exact, because SM really doesn't supply a long enough one.
I would say that this is a jet for an advanced builder but it flys so well that a jet pilot with minimal experience (need some though) can fly it with ease.
Jim
08-18-2010, 02:10 PM
#188
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RE: Dragon wing failure.
Opps! I am getting better. Use to send everythig 3 times. The pills must be working! Actually I was driving when I sent it. Talk about being hypocritical...I post about kit safety and then email while driving. Off to see my pastor now.
George
George
08-18-2010, 02:29 PM
#189
RE: Dragon wing failure.
Guys in my personal experiense I haven't had a bad experience with the pins and haven't had reports of this getting loose except for a Viperjet in Argentina which was easily fixed.
There are also hundreds of models around the world which are not showing this problem.
But the problem does exist in some models and has to be fixed.
I talked to Anton yesterday and we are going to propose a solution for this problem as soon as posible. For old kits and new ones so this doesn't happen again.
I would suggest for everyone that has had a problem to talk to their dealers and not directly to the factory, you will have much better luck then and if you don't try another dealer, my email is one click away and I am glad to help anyone with their problems.
To all customers, Skymaster will not look away on this and they will give the solution to this problem as they have done in the past. Just give us some time to propose a good and lasting solution for everyone.
For now I would recommend everyone to check their pins and make sure they are glued correctly. If they are you will not have any problems. I have had this pins for hundreds of flights in my planes and no problems at all.
I will keep you guys posted on what Skymaster decides to do.
Michel
Here are a couple of pictures of a probably good solution that can be implemented quite easy on existing models and future models.
There are also hundreds of models around the world which are not showing this problem.
But the problem does exist in some models and has to be fixed.
I talked to Anton yesterday and we are going to propose a solution for this problem as soon as posible. For old kits and new ones so this doesn't happen again.
I would suggest for everyone that has had a problem to talk to their dealers and not directly to the factory, you will have much better luck then and if you don't try another dealer, my email is one click away and I am glad to help anyone with their problems.
To all customers, Skymaster will not look away on this and they will give the solution to this problem as they have done in the past. Just give us some time to propose a good and lasting solution for everyone.
For now I would recommend everyone to check their pins and make sure they are glued correctly. If they are you will not have any problems. I have had this pins for hundreds of flights in my planes and no problems at all.
I will keep you guys posted on what Skymaster decides to do.
Michel
Here are a couple of pictures of a probably good solution that can be implemented quite easy on existing models and future models.
08-18-2010, 02:48 PM
#192
RE: Dragon wing failure.
Thanks guys, even I am all the way in the end of the world I am just an email away, anyone can contact me and I will try to help them with their problem.
Michel
Michel
08-18-2010, 03:38 PM
#193
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RE: Dragon wing failure.
ORIGINAL: marquisvns
Albert:
The phrase ''still attached after the crash'', does that mean that the spar is still nice and straight? or is it folded but just still attached to the fuselage?
Barry
ORIGINAL: as722
Todd,
I can't speak for others but mine was not a spar failure as the wing tube and the other wing were still attached after the crash.
Albert
ORIGINAL: lov2flyrc
Guys.....
I think you are missing a key point that has been brushed upon already in this thread.....
This tab is for securing the wing to the fuse. It's sole function is to stop the wing from sliding off the spar. Flight loads are minimal at this joint. What is not being discussed is if in the failures that have occurred, was the spar collapsed or broken on the failed wing. I would be willing to bet these are spar failures, not failures of the retention tab.
While I do agree the security of these tabs is severely inadequate, I think further investigation into the source of the failures is warranted.
If someone can post spar material and dimensions, I can check into load capability of the spar.
I am sure Anton is listening, hopefully he is just taking some time to digest the issues and put together a business plan to correct the issues at hand. Give him a few days before throwing him under the bus....
Todd
Guys.....
I think you are missing a key point that has been brushed upon already in this thread.....
This tab is for securing the wing to the fuse. It's sole function is to stop the wing from sliding off the spar. Flight loads are minimal at this joint. What is not being discussed is if in the failures that have occurred, was the spar collapsed or broken on the failed wing. I would be willing to bet these are spar failures, not failures of the retention tab.
While I do agree the security of these tabs is severely inadequate, I think further investigation into the source of the failures is warranted.
If someone can post spar material and dimensions, I can check into load capability of the spar.
I am sure Anton is listening, hopefully he is just taking some time to digest the issues and put together a business plan to correct the issues at hand. Give him a few days before throwing him under the bus....
Todd
I can't speak for others but mine was not a spar failure as the wing tube and the other wing were still attached after the crash.
Albert
The phrase ''still attached after the crash'', does that mean that the spar is still nice and straight? or is it folded but just still attached to the fuselage?
Barry
It's folded from when it hit the ground but still attached to the fuse. The other wing was attached to the fuse in perfect condition. When the wing came off the airplane did a "car wheel" in the air and actually landed kind of flat on the grass. The fuse was actually in one piece but there was cracks every where.
Albert
08-18-2010, 04:16 PM
#194
My Feedback: (6)
RE: Dragon wing failure.
ORIGINAL: JetsRC
Guys in my personal experiense I haven't had a bad experience with the pins and haven't had reports of this getting loose except for a Viperjet in Argentina which was easily fixed.
There are also hundreds of models around the world which are not showing this problem.
But the problem does exist in some models and has to be fixed.
I talked to Anton yesterday and we are going to propose a solution for this problem as soon as posible. For old kits and new ones so this doesn't happen again.
I would suggest for everyone that has had a problem to talk to their dealers and not directly to the factory, you will have much better luck then and if you don't try another dealer, my email is one click away and I am glad to help anyone with their problems.
To all customers, Skymaster will not look away on this and they will give the solution to this problem as they have done in the past. Just give us some time to propose a good and lasting solution for everyone.
For now I would recommend everyone to check their pins and make sure they are glued correctly. If they are you will not have any problems. I have had this pins for hundreds of flights in my planes and no problems at all.
I will keep you guys posted on what Skymaster decides to do.
Michel
Here are a couple of pictures of a probably good solution that can be implemented quite easy on existing models and future models.
Guys in my personal experiense I haven't had a bad experience with the pins and haven't had reports of this getting loose except for a Viperjet in Argentina which was easily fixed.
There are also hundreds of models around the world which are not showing this problem.
But the problem does exist in some models and has to be fixed.
I talked to Anton yesterday and we are going to propose a solution for this problem as soon as posible. For old kits and new ones so this doesn't happen again.
I would suggest for everyone that has had a problem to talk to their dealers and not directly to the factory, you will have much better luck then and if you don't try another dealer, my email is one click away and I am glad to help anyone with their problems.
To all customers, Skymaster will not look away on this and they will give the solution to this problem as they have done in the past. Just give us some time to propose a good and lasting solution for everyone.
For now I would recommend everyone to check their pins and make sure they are glued correctly. If they are you will not have any problems. I have had this pins for hundreds of flights in my planes and no problems at all.
I will keep you guys posted on what Skymaster decides to do.
Michel
Here are a couple of pictures of a probably good solution that can be implemented quite easy on existing models and future models.
08-18-2010, 04:43 PM
#195
RE: Dragon wing failure.
That is really a Skymaster desition, but I am sure it will be solved one each case diferently. Anyone on this situation is invited to contact me or their dealer to see what can be done.
I hope everyone understands that this type of problems are very delicate because as some lost their jet because of this others didn't but want to appear as they did so images and a very well and detailed description will be required.
Final desition of kit replacment or not will be from Skymaster.
Michel
I hope everyone understands that this type of problems are very delicate because as some lost their jet because of this others didn't but want to appear as they did so images and a very well and detailed description will be required.
Final desition of kit replacment or not will be from Skymaster.
Michel
08-18-2010, 04:46 PM
#196
RE: Dragon wing failure.
I am surprised no one mentioned Comp arf jets yet, i own the flash, great flyer no mods to be done, very strong airframe. More expensive than XJ but much cheaper than BVM. if you want a large jet go for the ultra lightning, i do not own the UL but have seen it fly and has great reviews here on rcu.
Chaitanya.
Chaitanya.
ORIGINAL: racer8297.
George, I agree with you 100 percent. Life and limb over everything.
When I bought my Dragon, it was my second jet. My first was a Bruce Tharpe Reaction kit on which I put over 370 successfull flights. What a great design! In buying the Dragon I knew it wasn't a BVM or JMP level of model But my funds are limited and I full knew that the Dragon would require allot of extra work such as installing pin hinges, re aligning the flap hinges and general lack of instructions. I was willing to accept all this in order to have a large sport jet that I knew flys well since I had seen another club member's Dragon and I was impressed. Of course I didn't realize that what was inside that I couldn't see was going to be such a problem. Well, so be it. I figured it out on mine and I hope that other Dragon and SM owners know to check there airplanes. Thank god for these forums!
I only wish, and it is just a wish, that the Asian companies would work with us instead of against us. SM seemed to be a pretty good company until they totally dropped the ball on this. I mean they got me a replacement canopy in 1 week flat! Pretty impressive if you ask me. But when problems come up they just avoid them until it gets out of control like this situation has. If Anton had just responded to Albert and to Luis this whole thread would have been over in 3 posts.
Jim
George, I agree with you 100 percent. Life and limb over everything.
When I bought my Dragon, it was my second jet. My first was a Bruce Tharpe Reaction kit on which I put over 370 successfull flights. What a great design! In buying the Dragon I knew it wasn't a BVM or JMP level of model But my funds are limited and I full knew that the Dragon would require allot of extra work such as installing pin hinges, re aligning the flap hinges and general lack of instructions. I was willing to accept all this in order to have a large sport jet that I knew flys well since I had seen another club member's Dragon and I was impressed. Of course I didn't realize that what was inside that I couldn't see was going to be such a problem. Well, so be it. I figured it out on mine and I hope that other Dragon and SM owners know to check there airplanes. Thank god for these forums!
I only wish, and it is just a wish, that the Asian companies would work with us instead of against us. SM seemed to be a pretty good company until they totally dropped the ball on this. I mean they got me a replacement canopy in 1 week flat! Pretty impressive if you ask me. But when problems come up they just avoid them until it gets out of control like this situation has. If Anton had just responded to Albert and to Luis this whole thread would have been over in 3 posts.
Jim
08-18-2010, 05:24 PM
#197
RE: Dragon wing failure.
ORIGINAL: as722
It's folded from when it hit the ground but still attached to the fuse. The other wing was attached to the fuse in perfect condition. When the wing came off the airplane did a ''car wheel'' in the air and actually landed kind of flat on the grass. The fuse was actually in one piece but there was cracks every where.
Albert
ORIGINAL: marquisvns
Albert:
The phrase ''still attached after the crash'', does that mean that the spar is still nice and straight? or is it folded but just still attached to the fuselage?
Barry
ORIGINAL: as722
Todd,
I can't speak for others but mine was not a spar failure as the wing tube and the other wing were still attached after the crash.
Albert
ORIGINAL: lov2flyrc
Guys.....
I think you are missing a key point that has been brushed upon already in this thread.....
This tab is for securing the wing to the fuse. It's sole function is to stop the wing from sliding off the spar. Flight loads are minimal at this joint. What is not being discussed is if in the failures that have occurred, was the spar collapsed or broken on the failed wing. I would be willing to bet these are spar failures, not failures of the retention tab.
While I do agree the security of these tabs is severely inadequate, I think further investigation into the source of the failures is warranted.
If someone can post spar material and dimensions, I can check into load capability of the spar.
I am sure Anton is listening, hopefully he is just taking some time to digest the issues and put together a business plan to correct the issues at hand. Give him a few days before throwing him under the bus....
Todd
Guys.....
I think you are missing a key point that has been brushed upon already in this thread.....
This tab is for securing the wing to the fuse. It's sole function is to stop the wing from sliding off the spar. Flight loads are minimal at this joint. What is not being discussed is if in the failures that have occurred, was the spar collapsed or broken on the failed wing. I would be willing to bet these are spar failures, not failures of the retention tab.
While I do agree the security of these tabs is severely inadequate, I think further investigation into the source of the failures is warranted.
If someone can post spar material and dimensions, I can check into load capability of the spar.
I am sure Anton is listening, hopefully he is just taking some time to digest the issues and put together a business plan to correct the issues at hand. Give him a few days before throwing him under the bus....
Todd
I can't speak for others but mine was not a spar failure as the wing tube and the other wing were still attached after the crash.
Albert
The phrase ''still attached after the crash'', does that mean that the spar is still nice and straight? or is it folded but just still attached to the fuselage?
Barry
It's folded from when it hit the ground but still attached to the fuse. The other wing was attached to the fuse in perfect condition. When the wing came off the airplane did a ''car wheel'' in the air and actually landed kind of flat on the grass. The fuse was actually in one piece but there was cracks every where.
Albert
Although we weren't there when this happened, it's hard to comprehend that the wing would separate cleanly from the airplane without distorting the wing tube in the air. Unless at such low airspeed with high roll rate, so high that the centrifugal force "shoots" out the wing cleanly, which is not likely to be able to perform by any RC jet.
Say the tab did fail first, during the wing separation from the fuselage, at this time, the wing only has one spar to "hang on to". It is bound to flutter and rotate on that only spar, once it did, the spar would fold, then wing slips out. make sense?
Another scenario, the integrity of the spar breached first, pops loose the tab, wing folds and departs; this is what I think happened, and would have happened to my friend's dragon if he had gone say another 10 more mph on that one turn.
Albert, I don't mean to contest your mishap, just trying to help sort things out for the sake of the spirit of this thread.
Barry
08-18-2010, 05:42 PM
#198
RE: Dragon wing failure.
ORIGINAL: rcand
Well, sorry for your loss, especially since I have a Dragon. I always believed SM was the best of the kits from China but I guess they are all about the same.
Well, sorry for your loss, especially since I have a Dragon. I always believed SM was the best of the kits from China but I guess they are all about the same.
I dunno....... There are some pretty darn goood ARFs from China out there...
08-18-2010, 06:11 PM
#200
RE: Dragon wing failure.
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
I dunno....... There are some pretty darn goood ARFs from China out there...
ORIGINAL: rcand
Well, sorry for your loss, especially since I have a Dragon. I always believed SM was the best of the kits from China but I guess they are all about the same.
Well, sorry for your loss, especially since I have a Dragon. I always believed SM was the best of the kits from China but I guess they are all about the same.
I dunno....... There are some pretty darn goood ARFs from China out there...
.........and Yellow too. ;-)