JET FX

A high percentage of the 'perceived' quality of any given hobby product, regardless of manufacturer has to do with the real world experience of the modeler....

as722

My Feedback: (1)

Barry,

I'm pretty confident that the spar did not fail but I'll never know for sure. I had heard of other pilots bending their tubes so once in a while I would take the tube and roll it on a glass table to check for any "bows" and it was straight as could be. The new style spar looks to be up to the job IMO.

Albert

rcand

rcand

True, I never had a problem with my Tam F-18. But Tam makes trips to the factory about every month or so to make sure everything is done correctly

marquisvns

Albert, a well designed spar or certain structural members could flex (not as likely with our models) but never bend, otherwise I could assure you that's not the only thing gonna be "bent out of shape"

If other pilots' and my buddy's spar including his replacement (which is identical as the bent one) are the so call "new style spar" and still bend under load, then, in my opinion, they are NOT up to the job.

Barry

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

Well, all this talk has certainly brought down the prices and values on Skymaster, as well as the direct sales of their jets.

Have you seen the sudden spike in the amount of people trying to off-load their SM jets lately? Someone even took all the components out of their Skymaster jet to use for a better quality jet, and is selling the jet only!! Stating that they would rather sell it to someone who is willing to fix or deal with all the unknowns and risks than for him to risk flying that jet again. Better to sell it off at a severe loss of money than to have it crash and burn up all the electronics and engine.

JetsRC

Could you please tell me where did you see this? Please if posible send me all the links to check about this big increase in people off loading their SM jets. It is important for me to be informed about this things.

We have hundresds of SM jets all over the world with no issues, I personally have jets with more than 3 years and hundreds of flights and are still going solid, most of the best dealers in the world deal with Skymaster products. As with any product problems may arrise from time to time and we are willing to solve those problems and help customers, this has been done in the past and it will be done in the future.

Michel

tothemax

I also would like to see some of these planes that you see at reduced prices particularly a Dragon. thanks

AndyAndrews

I personally have not seen this trend and I look at the sales boards most every day. Please post evidence. Currently there are 10 SM jets for sale on the boards out of 71. Thats 14% off all jets being sold. Hardly a "spike" as you put it.

Plus, SM probably sells more jets than anyone else meaning that there are more used jets out there to sell at any given time. If anything this proves that people are satisfied with their jets and NOT selling them as you suggest.

It seems that this isn't the only thread where your facts are skewed or are simply incorrect. I guess you haven't had enough spanking on the full scale "approach" issue by the pilots who fly commercially including one who is a 757 pilot on that issue.

Do you even fly jets at all? or are you lurking around here just to stir up trouble?

icepilot

This is pure nonsense...

racer8297

My Feedback: (13)

Guys,

To put this back into perspective, I would say this. Skymaster/X-Treme Jet products are overall good products. I'm sure that Anton and John et al have put in a fair amount of work bringing us jets at a palatable price. However, in manufacturing problems do arise and when they do, how they are handled is what sets companies apart and distinguishes the winners from the losers. And a company is only as good as how they handled their last mistake. Add to that the message boards, like RCU, and the ability to communicate with the world as easily as we do today and a company can have it's reputation ruined in an hour by people that would have to fly 14 hours to knock on the door. The nature of manufacturing is to solve problems. Not everyone is capable to do this or everyone would be in their own business. But Anton IS in business. He needs to get on this thread and make people feel good about his products again and he needs to make the people who may have defective products feel confident in flying SM jets again. I see pilot tw watching this thread but so far no comment.

So how abou it Anton? Get on here and end this. Put out a product directive stating that there may be problems with the tabs and the canopies and post a modification that people can do to make YOUR products safe to fly. I would assume that anyone who is capable of building a jet is capable of modifying it to be safe.

I know, you think that it is good business practice to just let this thread die and within a few weeks or months things will be back to normal. You are probably right but I look at it this way. We, as jet flyers in the US (and everywhere) are only one serious accident away from losing our right to enjoy our hobby as freely as we do.

Good flying this weekend!

Jim

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

I have 8000+ hours in the following jets; Lear 35, Falcon 20, Sabre, and Citation 10, not to mention my 2500 hours prior to that, in which 900 were turbo-prop. I was also a Check Captain/ Check Pilot who certified pilots for left and right seat in these types of jets. And yes, I also fly jets and planes in this hobby.

I seroiusly doubt SM sells more jets than than anyone else, but I do agree there are many out there. Hopefully, most of them are hangar queens (which may explain why some people have had them for years ... cause they never fly them). If and when they do fly them, they do very gentile maneuvers so as not to overstress a weak structure. OR ... as in the case of a rep, reinforced it in many, many areas that the 'factory' overlooked.

The SM factory 'scrap balsa wood and glue job' that we all saw on a previous post that was done for the aluminum tab must have been done by a child on his/her first day of work at the SM factory in China.

Seeing all this, it is clear that SM has no quality control, nor quality. Just junk that they brush off as 'buyer beware' with their belief that the buyer needs to reinforce the SM jet in many places so that it is airworthy. As is straight from the box, SM jets are for display only.

Please don't defend a bad product. Anton and his inept crew have known about these issues for 18 months and did nothing about any of it. Simply put, Skymaster jets are severely lacking quality, and are not airworthy.

icepilot

[/quote]

Well, I have several hundred hours on my 3 SM jets, and there are a lot of pilots here in Norway that fly SM jets everytime we are at our field. None of them have ever fallen apart, they are not flown gentile and they are great planes. I am not a rep, not sponsored and I have
never reinforced any of my SM models. Contrary to your ramblings, I know these planes and I know what I am talking about - but I doubt that you are a person that can be discussed with in a sensible manner so I will end my engagement in this matter here..

rcand

well, I decided to see if the metal tab in my Dragon may become a problem. I was fortunate to have installed an EZ air system on a recessed plate, flush with the root, behind the tab, so I have a go view of the tab and mounting just by removiong my EZ air mounting plate. What I found out was disappointing. The tab is in the wing about 3/4 inch with a big gob of glue gluing it to the inside of the very thin fibergalss root section, that's it. there are some large balsa blocks just in front of the metal tab. It looks like the tab was meant to go through the balsa blocks, but either the tab or the blocks are not in the correct position. The fiberglass root is not very thick, definately not structural. I can't believe SM would screw this up. This is pre-engineering 101, you know, mount the tab through a block of wood, preferably hardwood or plywood. I will be making some modifications before I fly again.

mk1spitfire

Do you think public show organisers will ban these models from displays if there is a known proven structual fault?

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

Hi Icepilot,
I'm glad you have had safe flights with your SM jets. I really hate to see them crash no matter who the manufacturer is. People put a lot of money and time into these things. I hate to see all that go to waste .. for any reason ... even pilot error.

I'm sure you saw that 'factory' aluminum wing tab glue job on one of the SM Dragons. Something like that should have never been put in the market. Obviously, SM lets anything go out their door. Now we have a rash of these planes coming apart in the sky !!!

In most products these days, "Made in China" has meant same quality, lower price. In the case of SM (and as stated by their rep, "Made in China" means cheap quality, bad engineering, low price ...

I have very high standards for something that is going 200+ mph. The g's that these jets are capable of, and endure, would cause a human to 'black out'. A 90° bank at a constant altitude can put as much as 4 g's on an aircraft structure, and a hard landing can be 2 or more. Since these models weigh anywhere from 18 to 35 pounds, a 'g' force of 6 would be as if the plane weighed 108 to 210 pounds. That is what the minimum stress capability of these planes should be. The fiberglass thickness in these jets is not capable of this with proper reinforcing. SM jets do not have the proper structure or reinforcing. Their aluminum wing tab is severely inadequate, and improperly glued/attached.

JetsRC

This is really going no where and it is not worth to continue posting on this. Treating people of inept and saying that childs work on this jets is not my idea of a discution and clearly this is going towards a brand slash more than trying to find solutions, with all sort of theories and asumptions that really do not show the reality of things.
Flying all sorts of big planes doesn't make anyone an expert on RC, sorry...

As posted earlier any customers having problems, doubts or any other issue with your SM or XJ models please feel free to contact me directly by email. We will do our best to help you out.

Michel out...

AndyAndrews

What RC jets do you own now and what have you owned in the past? Just curious. I've had my SM F-16 for over three years and never once had a structural problem at all with over 100 flights on it. Plus I'm not easy on it. Most flights are full throttle with hard turns. She's held up fine. So much btw, that I'm getting it re-themed because I'm bored with the current theme. I would't spend that kind of money on a jet that wasn't proven.

But do tell us - What turbine jets are you currently flying? (not scale) Also, there are no waiver holders from York SC. Are you listed under another city?

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

Typical lame attempt to brush off the issue when you are losing. But the issue is real ... SM jets are severely inadequate in design, structure and workmanship. Not assumptions or theories either ... the pictures show the inept workmanship and design of SM jets.

Your response is the same as Antons ... hey, have a problem ... send me an email. Well Mike, the problem seems to be wings and canopies coming off in flight due to poor craftsmanship. What are you going to do for the customer who contacts you AFTER his plane crashed for these reasons? Anything you do is too late then. And don't offer to sell him another plane! Instead, suggest that your customer buy a different brand ... like Yellow, JHH, or BVM.

SM should announce retrofits for all their deficiencies ... just like BVM and Toyota. Even supply the necessary materials to the current owner, or offer for the rep to do the modification. I'd rather have patch on my jet than a jet that slammed into the ground and burst into flames, destroying everything.

Then, SM should immediately upgrade their products with proper workmanship and materials.

I wouldn't fly a Skymaster jet if you gave one to me. I don't want the liability of owning one if one of these can cause property damage or kill someone due to poor quality that causes them to come apart in the air.

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

I too have an F-16, but not SM. Granted, the F-16 by design has a great structure ... strong too. One of my favorites to fly. Just up here in York (no-mans land) for a short time. No place to fly jets in this area. Fields here are grass ... not good for jets. I live, and fly R/C jets in South Florida. Also have F-4 and F-15 (bvm, yellow aircraft, and jhh)

marquisvns

Michel, the reality of things is that the spars are bending, tabs popping, canopy ejecting... in flight! If this isn't enough for you, dragons crashing, now that's the reality of things.

After my buddy receives the new but same spar, he traded the plane to me, so in essence I am also one of the owners of a dragon. So, if you will provide me with a stronger spar, and I shall thanking you and take care of all other mods; otherwise, I urge Anton to provide a stronger spar for those who choose to up grade and put together a provision for structural improvements for the wing tabs, canopy area, and or any other relevant locations as soon as possible.

From what I know, dragons are made by a subcontractor in China and perhaps that explains the lack of quality control. I personally also own an old SM Gripen and it probably has about 500 flights to this day by 5 or 6 previous owners before me and is still going strong.

Cheers SM, owners, dealers,
Barry

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

OK ... to be fair to Skymaster, they are not the only manufacturer to have poor craftmanship, workmanship, and design. I have seen several areas were FeiBao jets need improving and reinforcing too. But so far, I have not seen or heard of any Feibao jets coming apart in the sky.

There are people that fly, and people that know how to build a plane that will fly safely. I have also seen people that have no business flying jets. They should still be flying trainers. Some people are given a turbine waiver that don't deserve it.

racer8297

My Feedback: (13)

Michel,

I just want to thank you for your offer of assistance to those who seek it. And yes, lets stop bashing each other and share ideas and our frustrations in a respectful manner. I am as frustrated and even irate over this as the rest of you.

Also, I would admit that SM brand has great recognition in the hobby although they have really dropped the ball on this issue.

I'll be flying my newly reinforced, newly canopied Dragon this weekend and not worry about it. If only Anton would get on here and straighten this mess out I would be perusing his website dreaming about my next jet! Oh well, I'll look at Aviation Designs.

Jim

AndyAndrews

Not to be to inquisitive, but all of your jets are ducted fan right? You don't own a turbine jet do you? If so your not waivered are you? The reason I ask is that you are all of the sudden posting a lot on the jet forums and based on your comments you really don't seem to know much about the community.

Molnar142

My Feedback: (38)

Wow.
Like most threads I see these days it takes 2+hrs of time (that I have little of) away from my life to weed thru the immense amount of BS to get to what seems, at times, less than 10% of valuable content. Can we dispense of the crap, realize there is a potential problem and get on with finding solutions to each model affected with this design?

In my world (largest jet engine manufacture in the world…I’ll let you guess who) we have a process for these types of defects in design or manufacturing. It’s called Service Bulletins. They are categorized from Cat1 which equals ground plane and address immediately to Cat9, do at customer convenience. All Skymaster and any other manufacture has to do is post bulletins on their web site detailing the problem and hopefully a way to remedy. They could also provide the severity like, do before next flight or at customer’s discretion, etc. A representative from the manufacture could post a thread each time a bulletin is published on their web site so we know to go look….that by the way is called an All-Ops-Wire in my line of work.
I have a Skymaster F-16 (among other jets) and this is what I did to remedy the problem after this tab issue was brought to my attention.
I cut a small window above the tab to have a look inside and I would agree the way the tab was fastened was inadequate (in my opinion). So I simply drilled a hole through the lower wing skin, thru the Al tab, added a carbon fiber doubler to the underside of the wing and threaded in a #6 self tapping socket head screw in which protruded through the tab on the inside. Then, thru the window that I cut, I filled the area around the tab with Hysol. I also added a small piece of wood to lay transverse across the tab. After setting overnight, the structure is solid. If this tab rips out of here now the plane, I’m afraid, has other issues. You will also note, I JB welded a lock nut to the top of the tab. This is so I’m not relying on the 2 threads, due to the thickness of the tab, to secure the wing bolt.

I really feel for the guys that found out about this issue the hard way. Thank you though for sharing as I hope the ingenuity by some may help mitigate further catastrophic failures.

Mike