Thinking of coming back!
 

During the current Covid-19 lockdown I have just about got through the list of jobs to do around the house and garden! I decided to have a look at RCU Jets and after 8 years flying nothing but electric ( mostly pattern) the bug may have bitten again.
The one thing that seems to have really moved on is the electronics / receiver setups. It looks like you need a degree in electrical engineering to set up a jet now. The only thing I have left from my jet days are my trusty Futaba 14MZ, no multi channel receivers etc.
What would be the simplest set-up for a basic sport jet like a Boomerang? |I am thinking about an Xicoy 70 or Kingtech 85 turbine, any views or experience of these would be welcome.

Hi John,

Just get a 14 channel futaba rx and one of those powerbox dual input regulator/switch things. I have that setup in my Excalibur. Super simple.

Paul
http://www.powerbox-systems.com/prod...werbox-12.html

Paulhat

Yes! I remember now, used to have a Powerbox dual switch & 2x 6 volt nimh. I suppose I could go to 2 x 2S lipo now.

Thanks John

I run a P-100 in my current Sprint. I have seen at least a dozen of them show up at my shows. IMO anything less than 20#s thrust makes the Sprint sluggish. I actually had a P-140 in one for a while before it blew off the stab. :-) That plane is no longer in existence. It was a rather spectacular crash though! :-)

I run powerbox in all but one of my larger aircraft. If you are thinking of a gyro, you may want to take a look the Mercury PBox. It has the gyro built in. However, I am not sure if the Mercury SRS is what you want for a Futaba setup cause I dumped Futaba 7 years ago. The Mercury SRS with three or four remote Rxers works great, especially with current radio systems offering many more options than what was out there just a few years ago.

Also, you may want to run 2S LiPo or LiFe. I run High Voltage (7.4 VDC) in all my jets. LiFe will not provide that w/o going 3S and then you have more complexity with adding high current voltage regulators. (e.g. Max input voltage for PBox is 9.0 VDC.) 2S LiFe is also actually beyond the max voltage for low voltage servos, etc. So 2S LiFe does NOT get you to high voltage and it is too high of voltage for low voltage servos. But some folks do run 2S LiFe on Low voltage servos even thought they are > a half volt higher than a low voltage servo's specs. So I run LiPo, but take them out for charging. The Sprint has a nice compartment for two 2000Mah LiPo Rxer batteries tucked in right above the nose wheel. With that and forward placement of a PBox you do not need to add any nose weight, even with a P-100 sitting on the tail. NiMH batteries are not going to get you to high voltage and high capacity w/o unnecessary weight and then there is battery memory to deal with.

High voltage digital servos are the way to go. For example; Hitecs are programable, which comes in really handy, … say for the flaps when you have only enough channels for Ys on the flaps, etc.. Reversing a programable servo is easy. But, I recommend one channel for each servo. It makes fine tuning and matching control surfaces really easy. I only mention Hitec here because that is what I am familiar with. There are other brands of servos that work just fine. For me reprogramming a Hitec is simple versus using SBus or Xbus, etc., especially in a smaller jet.

When you buy Rxers, think big. I have a couple jets using 14 channels and one using 15. I just want you to understand what the jets out there get into. You certainly can get away with 9 channels if you use Ys and couple control surfaces together. But then you get into issues matching them. A Mercury will give you 20 channels, if you configure it and program it correctly. By the way, there is a learning curve for programming PBox. But once you figure it out, you have great flexibility. But, … if you are not willing to learn programming, you may want to look at simpler options. Then there is component availability. Some brands have not had their radio system components available for months!

You are right when you really have to think about the systems in a turbine. They are a bit complex at times. However, just think one system at a time, do a lot of reading and consider weight as you add components. While a Sprint or similar can handle excess weight, many of the smaller Mini jets can not handle much excess weight and the smaller jets do not have the space for many of the current component options w/o making an unmaintainable mess inside it.

Lastly a Sprint is a good choice for a beginner jet. There are others. It all depends on what is available at the time you want to buy, I guess. But I still have and fly the Sprint. It is fun and simple enough for a first time turbine setup. I just clocked 25 hours on it and had the turbine rebuilt. But then my other jets all have at least 17+hours on them meaning it often sits neglected in the trailer. Lately I have been using it to train new jet guys, etc. as well as just have some no-pucker factor fun. The Sprint is easy to fly and land. The minis are more difficult as they typically have a heavier wing load and they have less robust gear and gear mounts resulting in a much less forgiving plane to land.

Just some thoughts.

yeah just a couple of 2s 2100s.. Sweet as

Still using my 18MZ since I bought it 8 years ago

I agree withPaul. Keep it simple if you are buying a simple trainer/sports jet. I’m sure that you are trying to use what is in stock. Buy the 14 channel receiver, plugging servos directly into the receiver, with suggested switch. Dual batteries to me is a must. For a basic jet, that’s all you need. Then, should you decide to spend more money on the next jet, then you can go with dual 7003SB receiver through a PB Mercury SRS. I fly that set up in 3 of my jets.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...0a29fdedd.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...54a0a26b9.jpeg
Futaba’s in the house!

Love that set up as well. Two three channel 7003sb and powerbox mercury. Get built in gyro and 15 channel inputs for the plane

Len

Thanks for your very detailed reply. I had several Boomerangs back in the early 2000's which mostly had Wren Supersports in them they all ran on a Powerbox dual switch with two batteries, NIMH back then. I found the 14MZ easy to programme so I don't want to get involved in anrything more complex than that at the moment. I will revert to a 14 channel Rx so each servo will have a channel to make setup easy.

John

I just set up my son's boomerang torus with a Futaba 14SG, 6014HS Rx with dual switches. So far not one issue with interference or range. For a simple jet like that I take the KISS method nothing special or extra. Same for my Bobcat....18mz and a 6014hs.

Patrick

I like to KISS it, just like Patric.

My B-XL set up consist of a 14 chl Futaba receiver, 2c 2100mah LIFE batt packs X 2 for the receiver, a 2c 5K LIPO batt pack for the ECU/smoke pump and 2 switches, nothing else, it has been flying with this set up for the last 3 years.

Welcome back.

Dooooooo it!

I'll bet jet setup had gotten easier, if anything. I'm new to jets but have been flying 30 years. There are definitely a lot of folks that like to complicate things in the jet world. I prefer to keep it simple. No gyro, no gps, no dual receiver, no 15 different battery packs to run 15 different things, no switches - and electric retracts. Electric retracts alone will cut complication down by 75%. I run three batteries - one for the turbine and two for the Spektrum powersafe receiver, and I tap power off one of them for retracts.
And I run swiwin, so just one fuel line and one cord to the turbine, and telemetry and auto restart to boot.

Bodywerks

That sounds like a perfect setup, simple and light- light is right!

John

John,

If you ever want to replace the 14MZ (because of the screen, the batteries are a PITA, etc.) then the 16SZ is a great option. Its VERY similar in programming but it has a few new features including telemetry when you want to go there, plus it is less expensive than the 18SZ is and much less expensive than the 14MZ was...

Bob

18MZs popup as well with folk selling for the 32MZ, still not sure why they call it a 32 since its still only 18?

John

I got rid of almost all my modelling stuff a year ago but recently a 14 channel Futaba R6014Rx surfaced. If you want it just PM me with your address.

John Wright

HI Bob

Yes the 14 MZ is not without issues but it was a huge step up from the 9ZAP. I got mine 14 years ago (35Mhz) and subsequently got the 2.4 module for it. The batteries don't have much capacity but I have 2 and a field charger. It needed a new screen a few years ago but is still running strong, I am probably too old and set in me ways to upgrade!!

John

John

Thanks for that, details PM'd

John

Hey John;

I am flying the 18SZ, and helping a gas student with the 14mz. The other day when we flew, we used 3 transmitter batteries for the day in the 14MZ. Don’t be afraid to upgrade to the 18SZ. I had my 18SZ on for the same amount of time and flights. The 18SZ didn’t even come off of full charge. I program his and mine both. I never worked with the 14MZ until working with him. The programming is extremely similar and actually, to me, some of the programming issues have been more simplified in the 18SZ. You’ll get a new, better battery system, a new screen, and it’s always nice to buy something new. Plus the 18SZ is set up to bind two receivers with telemetry. Is there to use, even if you don’t. What’s a $1000 in the scheme of life for less frustration and the cost of any jet.

Ok guys, thanks for all the useful input, decisions made so far;
Radio- existing 14MZ/ rx 14 channel 6014, Powerbox sensor switch with 2 x 2100Lipo, electric retracts ( can I run these off the 2x Lipos?)
Model IAD Model Designs Serpent - 77 inch span looks like Kingcat clone CNC built up kit with glassfibre fuselage ( I have plenty of time to build!) suitable 60 -100 turbine.
Turbine - waiting on input, liking the Kingtech 85 or Xicoy 70 - any views.

John

Also consider JetsMunt very easy to get turbines serviced even though they are in Spain as are Xicoy.
Not sure where Kingtech servicing is carried out in Europe but not so common over here in the UK

Some shots of the Serpent, the kit manufacturer
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...d600c55a70.jpg
Built up centre section
is only 10 miles from me.

Here are a couple of more shots of the finished model.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...1659f6fd09.jpg
Cost of the CNC kit in uk is £450 or around $600 US included hardware, electric retracts with wheels are £350 / $450

Yes! I have two aircraft that have electric gear and brakes (I love not having to fiddle with air...). On my jets, I use two 2X Lipos with a Smartfly regulator (or Powerbox, or whatever), and I tap off of one of them for the gear. The regulator takes power from the battery that is higher voltage, so if the gear brings one down, the other picks up the radio system. The result is that both batteries come out of the plane at the end of the day with the same remaining capacity even though the gear is connected to only one. A nice, clean system...

Bob

also consider swiwin. They make an 80 that weighs nothing, the most affordable of them all, and USA service, assuming you're in the USA...

Yes, the swiwin looks like excellent value for money, unfortunately ( or fortunately !) I am in Scotland and I have a Kingtech dealer 10 miles away so it is a bit of a no brainer.
He also makes the kit I am going for, no postage costs!

John

Make sure there are no Hangars around ;-)

Sandor!

How are you? I see you are no longer supplying retracts etc .Doesn't seem like 13 years since the JWM in Northern Ireland. BTW I have never hit a hangar!!

John

The Serpant is limited in turbine size unless Ian has modified the design, last one I was involved with used a KT 85

John, I think he’s thinking of DG!

Dave

Hope you and the family are all well. I think it was DG who hit the hangar, I wasn't there at the time but it is funny how it's always the bad things that happen that people remember and not the good! Yes, I don't think the Serpent is designed to take bigger turbines but a K85 will suit me fine, it will also fit smaller models if required. I would logically have gone for an Excaliber but I wanted a model to build rather than an ARTF to fill in some time. I will be in touch at the install stage to get some bits and pieces.

John

John

All good thank you. Yep, that was 1997 and people still remember! 25 year rule is fast approaching so it will be ‘forgotten’ soon

When you are ready I can point you in the right direction for latest equipment choice and obviously Sensor switches are always on the shelf

Dave

I've almost finished a pilot rc viper and wanted to put dual sliding switches on receiver and turbine ecu and 1 on retracts. It seems as if nothing above a 5 amp rated switch is out there. Is anyone else using sliding switches still? I see mostly electronic switches out there, but wow. 90$ to open or close a circuit? I like the idea of being able to leave a lipo plugged in and the switch not using power since plugging and unplugging batts from receiver all day long gets old. Hopefully someone that's in the know can put me back on track. I never thought that a power switch would have presented itself as such a hard thing to find.

You might want to check out Andy's switches at ElectroDynamics. He has some high current switches.

Thanks a lot Len Todd. Exactly what I'm looking for. ...Google is not what it once was lol

May look at Fromeco Wolverine and Badger switches as well!

The UNDEFEATED Champion! Best Transmitter Ever!

LOL, nope. Those days $150.00 china radio can do 20x more.
I wish they would get they act together, but one can dream.
What used to be staple in our store is now dust collector :-(

I have:
24 channels
stabilization, power distribution
wireless programming
hall sensor gimbals
wireless ON/OFF switches
Integrated gyros and accelerometers
100 different sensors, airpressure, GPS, fuel flow,
full 3rd part integration
receivers from 3-18 channels

yes so we have :
Turbine
rpm
Batt voltage
Pump voltage
temp
status
fuel consumption
temp

on the right :
2 x Li ons batt guards
percentage
Left
used
Current
corner :
Landing gear telemetric and doors status.
you where saying? :rolleyes:
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...90a979450.jpeg

Yes it WAS my BVM T 33 which hit the hangar, it seems to bother Kruze !
That T33 had spun at the slightest opportunity, a tendency that had been reduced by various aerodynamic tweeks. ( Upset ailerons, root spoilers etc.) The fatal flight was going to be its last, I,d had enough of the spinning, pity it ended that way !

Several guys told me THEIR T 33s had also tended to spin easily. The root cause ( excuse the pun) was eventually trace to the cusp on the wing root which BVM eventuallY removed as it was on their F80. That seemed to fix the problem.

The T33 spun off a lowish speed wing over, it happens as we have seen in the Kamloops Snowbird tragedy last week where a low speed wingover following an EFATO resulted in a spin, the jet crashing into a house, one pilot ejecting and surviving, the other so sadly died.

Anyway welcome back John, perhaps we may meet up again at a CJ.