JPO Statement
 

www.jetpilots.org Check the front page.

RE: JPO Statement
 

I see it says more pilot requirements.
Any idea on how much more requirements?

How many new rules will there be?

RE: JPO Statement
 

David:

Good info.

It is hopefull that common sense used by all involved at the AMA should win the day.

We shall see.

Brg.

RE: JPO Statement
 

Being a private pilot, former military combat aircrewman, and long time model pilot, I have absolutely no problem with flight safety and a program of qualifying pilots who operate those aircraft, being models or full scale. However, regulations without a real training program to qualify the corps of aviators is restrictive. I will reserve further comment until I get to read the document in full.

Bill Adkins
AMA L6243

RE: JPO Statement
 

more regs, then more regs,
why don't we have the free flighter write the rules for turbine, turbine wavier guys write the rules for control line,and so forth.
Ohh wait that's pretty much whats happing already.

but a Positive point, higher qualifications mean less members trying to join the jet set.

Ohh well.

RE: JPO Statement
 

It seems that lately everything is being regulated more and more these days, not just RC Jets. There are fees and permits being imposed on anything you do ... I cant even wash my car without gettin a qualification permit from my local town hall .... Freedom ?? Fredom of what ? Im just sick of all this crap .... More and more im thinking of leaving the AMA alltogether and just flying on my own ... seems like internal AMA politics are even more idiotic then all the old farts who argue at the flying field all day, but never even fly ..


Wojtek

RE: JPO Statement
 

amen bro I hear ya.

If what I read about pilots having to re-certify every year is true, then I think thats going to be a major issue....if it's true.

Right now I'm in a big hassel just to get a waiver because I don't have a plane to qualify with. I sold all my ducted fans years ago when I took a brake from the hobby. So the ducted fan I have access to now is no where near 150mph and does not have flaps. The plane I have that does 150 doesn't have retracts or flaps. The plane I have with flaps probably doesn't even do 80mph.
So what to do?

RE: JPO Statement
 

WOW!!!

Maybe this will help...

RE: JPO Statement
 

Shok,
Although you would need to check with the TCD that will be doing your check ride, it is possible to perform your test with multiple aircraft. One to assess your ability to handle a complex aircraft (flaps, gear etc...) and one to assess your ability to handle the speed.
Todd

RE: JPO Statement
 

Thanks Todd, I will get with them and see what I can work out.

I'm lucky enough to have 3 cd's within 50 miles of me.
What do the guys do that have none near them?

RE: JPO Statement
 

You say you are in a big hassle but what has the Turbine CD that you are going to get to do your check rides have to say? Also included in the new regulations is several different ways to get your waiver including defining the airframe with whcih to accomplish this.

This is exactly the kind of speculation that adds complications to the whole process. Do you not think that these guys that worked so hard on these new rules took this sort of thing into consideration? The intent of the new rules is to make it less complicated to obtain the waiver, make the rules easier to enforce, reduce the restrictions on the airplane, and insure that at least a minimum level of competency is being maintained by the pilot.

RE: JPO Statement
 

The one I talked to so far confirms the need for the 150mph plane with at least retracts.


<<<<
Also included in the new regulations is several different ways to get your waiver including defining the airframe with whcih to accomplish this.
>>>>

Well then why doesn't someone spit it out so there is no speculation

RE: JPO Statement
 

David,
What exactly was wrong with the rules the way they were.I just got my waiver,after sitting on the fence for a while for a few reasons.One of the major ones is a somewhat elitist attitude from some people in this segment of the hobby.Increasing restrictions becomes burdensome,and detracts from the pleasure of this HOBBY! The paradox is that you can't legislate or impose common sense on a person that is lacking it.If you think I'm a ranting loose cannon,I'm not.I have over 12000 hrs flying,and am current on the A-320 at NWA.I have been flying R/C for 28 yrs,and still enjoy this HOBBY.I take enough checkrides,and have enough restrictions at work to keep me "legislated".I just bought 2 turbines,and have a plane on order,and have been really excited about doing this,but I'm concerned that it will be restricted to death,to the point of extracting too much of the pleasure.Did something happen to prompt "new rules"?My major heartburn comes with having to requal every year if that is true.I was lucky enough to have a very helpful TCD close by(Thanks Kerry!!),but I'm not sure requal issues won't be to burdensome.Then,what's to stop them from making it worse in the future at whim.The worst part is that these new rules are pending without a chance for us to comment on them.Even the mighty FAA has a period for comment by issuing a "Notice of proposed rule making"period for affected parties to comment.The silence is deafening.[:'(]
Erik

RE: JPO Statement
 

I do agree with Erik. This is a Hobby. It is not a burden. Safety comes First in anything but can you imagine if you had to take the driver's licence qualification every year. You would agree that driving is far more dangerouse then flying. People get into accidents all the time and there are according rules that apply to reckless driving and other violations, even suspention of the licence caused by severe issues. We should be more practical then this. It is a hobby, people spend time, money and love into it and nobody wants any more barriers than exist.

I do not think it is fair to keep all the people in the dark who do support AMA, JPO and others with their membership fees regarding regulations that might affect our decision to even become a member of the organization next year.
:eek:

RE: JPO Statement
 

I see your points fully, I was not inolved with the rules making other than the fact that I am also a JPO member and am an officer through managing the website. Unfortunatley as with everything else in life there have to be restrictions. I'm not as crazy about some of the changes as well. The major problem here is that we have a tyrant in office at AMA headquarters that is trying to railroad the executive council into not just doing away with a less restrictive and more manageable set of rules but he is actually attempting to INCREASE the restrictions on us by reducing the max thrust that we have now, and mandating that every airplane have a speedlimiter installed among other issues. You are exactly right when you say this is a hobby and it is for our relaxation but I guarantee that if Dave Brown gets his way turbine flying as you know it right now.

As far as keeping people in the dark goes, if you are a JPO member you have not been in the dark every issue of Contrails this year has had commentary about the new regulations, including requests for input. JPO is not the one keeping you in the dark on the new regulations Steven Ellzey was point blank told by the AMA NOT to post the regulations. There are several people at the AMA that have become very deeply involved and supportive of this committee that proposed the rules and JPO does not want to destroy the long term relationship. Dave Brown called this "meeting" as an emergency meeting based upon "risk management". When this proposal was brooguth before the executive council the AMA's attorneys were present as well as the AMA insurance people and ALL of them supported it and claimed that it would be defendable if it ever were a court room type situation. So why all of the sudden do we have to have risk management?

Lastly... I have known Steven Ellzey for several years now, he is a good friend and an active jet modeller. He is taking a lot of heat for this and is taking this personally. Anyone that knows Steven knows he is a very methodical and analytical individual he does not act on a whim and certainly puts a whole lot of thought into every one of his actions, especially the ones affecting others. I for one appreciate the fact that he has been working so hard for the jet community. I fully support him as do many other people.

RE: JPO Statement
 

Erik

What do mean when you say that you were not given a chance to comment on the new rule proposals mandated by the AMA. In the past issues of the Contrails (JPO Newsletter) the president has asked, pleaded for input on drawing up the new proposals. You are a member, aren't you?

I hear a lot of the same thing that you are mentioning hear and most of the people that are commenting here are not even JPO members. Without the JPO, Dave Brown would get his way and we all would still be flying DF's.

RE: JPO Statement
 

Few customer of my having the same problem getting the waiver. Even their are dawn good pilots. To get the ducted fan go over 150mph cost around $3000 to built one. Not to mention all kind of problem with ducted fan engine.
Why buddy box system can't be use for turbine training?
Let said the guys buy a trainer turbine jet. He ask for good turbine pilot train him on buddy box system. Than he go for CD to sign him off.
This is more real turbine training. I don't think is safe for the guys got their waiver and never had any stick time with the turbine. The change of them screwing up is high at the first couple flight.
I see good pilots can't even land turbine jet. Due to not use to throttle lack.
If he has some real turbine flight training. I don;t think he have a problem landing it.

Just my though.
Tam

RE: JPO Statement
 

Look at the start of this process, don lowe went out and requested input, part of the "team" was indeed JPO driven, the other part was hand selected by don lowe. people love to bash the JPO when they have no real basis to do so. as stated earlier, the three contrails I recieved this year all mentioned this process requesting input. hardly the secret or vaccum mentioned. imho you could not have a better person than steve on your side. his career deals with these things, and the balanced view he has brings tremendous levity to the table. he has been event cd, participated in numerous events, and does understand the pita issues with the current rule set. Until the ama comes forward with the final set, I'd reserve judgement. even then keep in mind that what is proposed to the ama hardly ever comes out the same after the safety and executive committee chews on it for a while.

tam, I believe buddy box training is part of what was proposed, again though, what was proposed may not be what comes out as rules.

RE: JPO Statement
 

David,

Agree on all parts with you. My point was more widespread and not pointed to JPO.

We want this hobby to exist because we love it and any organization that will not be supportive of it will not be part of my checkbook!!!

Rob

RE: JPO Statement
 

tam, I believe buddy box training is part of what was proposed, again though, what was proposed may not be what comes out as rules.
[/quote]


I hope this coming soon.

I live Ca. You are know the state got alot rules for the government to make money on us.
One of the latest is the car registration fee. We had to pay more for our registration fee just because the state over spent the money their has. We paying for the state mistake.
Now is become change reaction. Most of the cars dealer is in financial crisis. There can't sell that many cars to kept their door open.
Myself plan to buy a new mini van for my wife. But that plan got hold back due to the registration fee we had to paid.

So this hobby industries is in the same way. More rule and regualation. Putting alot hard working small business out of business due to lost interest of the market.
So rules got to be balance. JPO should purpose rules are simple enough for new pilots to join and still safe for the jet community.

Tam

RE: JPO Statement
 

So Tam.... being a buisness owner that supports the jet community are YOU a JPO member? Step up to the plate buddy!

RE: JPO Statement
 

David,
I'm not a JPO member.
But I do give 1000 of dollars aways each year and my time to support jet community.
That is worthed more than join JPO.
Tam

RE: JPO Statement
 

I know I am probably going to get crucified for the following comments but here goes.

How and why did the JPO become the sole voice for every turbine pilot in the AMA. Whenever there are rules changed proposed/made you don't hear about it unless you are a JPO member or after the fact. If I am wrong correct me now, but from what I read in this post earlier the proposed changes went out in the JPO Contrails newsletter. Was it ever mentioned anywhere else? I pay my money to the AMA just like everyone else so why don't I get a chance to read about the proposed changes, what is the secrecy behind it? Why is it going to get people in trouble and/or nervous if it gets out to the general public. This is the same type of deal where Bob Violett sent the letter into the AMA and the JPO to get the tiered waiver system instituted. The information leaked out and there was nothing less than a s&%t storm on RCU when everyone found out and I don't think it was because of what was in the letter mainly but how it was done, behind a cloak of secrecy.

I think the JPO has good intentions and I applaude those who take the time to deal with these issues but at least let your fellow jet fliers know what is going on JPO member or NOT, the web is a wonderful tool to reach millions of people at once.

I want to make this next point crystal clear. I am not attacking anyone in particular, just the way some things in this hobby are done.


Thanks for listening.

Patrick

RE: JPO Statement
 

Tam,

How can you complain about what JPO does when you don't support them with a small $25 membership. JPO is the ONLY SIG supporting the jet community.

RE: JPO Statement
 

Patrick,

Why don't you support the orginization that supports jets? What do you think the purpose of a SIG should be? Why do you think that it is important for JPO to ask your opinion when you don't support JPO?

JPO is a unified voice, by choosing NOT to be a JPO member you choose to have an independent voice. FAct is the AMA DID approach the JPO to form this committee.