RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Guys I need some help.
I own 2 JJ1400s one auto start and one manual start that I havn't run yet.
My Auto start runs fine
But I have 2 parameters on the FADEC that I do not understand
What is Pump Start Point and Pump Start Ramp?

I am looking for an explanation of these parameters not just a value
I need to get smart on this before I attempt to start the manual start one
Thanks in advance for your help and I will see some of ya all at the Blue Grass jet jam, Kentucky Jets and Georgia jet fly
Matty

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Taken from the manual:

Parameters used in “manual start” mode:
Pump Start point: Sets the power of the pump
when it is started at beginning of the fuel ramp.
The FADEC have the ability of to automatically
adjust the pump power to start it at the lowest possible speed, independently of the
battery voltage and pump roughness. Also the user have the possibility to adjust the
minimum pump power manually.
AUTO mode: The values of “Pump start point” from 0 to 8 are in AUTO mode.
This means that the FADEC will adjust itself the pump power to start it slowly. The usual





Pump Start ramp: This parameter adjust the speed
of the fuel increase during the “Fuel ramp” phase.
Higher values mean a faster fuel flow increase.
Increase this value if the engine take too long to arrive to idle, and decrease it if the
starts are too hot, with the engine overshooting the idle speed.
value for a unknown engine is AUTO+2, but after the first start you can increase or
decrease the fuel flow if needed.
Manual mode: From values from 9 to 255 the power applied to the pump is fixed.
It is necessary to test with the selected pump and battery the right value to have the
pump to start at the desired speed.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

SJN,
Thanks a bunch for the great explanation, my Auto start starts kind of slow I may try to increase the pump start ramp on it a little.
Thanks again
Matty

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Read alot of the explinations here:

http://www.espiell.com/FAD06.pdf

Although the manual is for the new ECU, alot of the parameters are the same, and are explained very well

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Try a two cell lipo for the ECU this will make a difference in the way it starts.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Actually parameter 22 means "Start gas switch off temperature" multiplied by 4. In your case 100X4 = 400 ªC. It´s ok. I had these question in the past with my wren, (nades ecu). It has be a mistake.

Regards

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Newbie question - In your set-up pictures, I see a white cylinder containing propane, or butane for starting. Do you purchase it like this already filled ? Or, is it refillerble ? And, where do you buy it ?

Thanks > Jim

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Hi GeBeeJim.
Did you ordered it already?
The propane/butane mix cylinder usually comes with the kit and it is always empty.
You need to also buy a valve or trigger valve for filling it with gas (try www.dreamworksrc.com )
Usually it is a good thing not to fit the gas bottle on board in case of a crash but use instead a propane/butane mix (sold in camping stores)
together with a suitable valve from the link i gave you.
Chris

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Jim, it's basically a retract air tank. You fill it with gas from a camping gas refill then you can start your model without touching anything other than your transmitter. That's the theory.

In practice you have the covers off your model to watch the start & use an extinguisher if it all goes wrong. Most people I know just connect the refill straight to the model, a pressure regulator with an adjustable valve is mounted on my gas solenoid (Wren).

The last thing you need on a model that's on fire or crashing is a thin cylinder of explosive gas under high pressure connected with a piece of flimsy plastic tube! [X(] Very little gas is actually used, I'm still on my first canister (small) after about 50 starts. - John.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

" Most people I know just connect the refill straight to the model, a pressure regulator with an adjustable valve is mounted on my gas solenoid "

OK, and is this large external "Coleman" refill just pulled after it starts ?
And does the ECU tell you when you are out of gas ?

Thanks to both of you.

> Jim

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Yes the ECU will give a weak gas message when tank is empty and start will abort.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Yep. Sort of like the turbine flyers equivalent of the glow connector. - John.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

I thinks I got it. :D

Thanks gyz.

> Jim

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Hey Guys,

I've got a JJ1200 that is not achieving max RPM (only getting to 120k) and I have a the JJ Pump, I am assuming that is the problem. I have a Behotec pump (the big blue one) I used on a previous home build that I would like to use, and am wondering if anyone has used this pump on the Jet Joe and if they could please tell me what their ECU settings (ramp value, start power, etc) were? Otherwise, anyone have some ballpark settings I could start with???


Thanks,
Ted

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Have you called Mark @ JJ in Mt Vernon. He will help you.
http://www.jetjoecentral.com/

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Hi all,

After putting over 15 hours on my JJ1400, I sold it in a turn key package to a friend in Raleigh, NC which included a RTF Falcon 120. I flew this setup over 40 times in just over a month.

My JJ1400 from March to December was a great performer and flew 3 different airframes: #1 = Tamjets F-16 (20lbs. ready to fly), #2 = Yellow Aircraft F-18 Single (20.5 lbs. ready to fly), #3 = Falcon 120 (16 lbs. ready to fly).

I would buy another JJ especially if they come out with a 30 pounder!

Greg Hames

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Typically how many fuel filters are used in a full auto start installation, and between what components are they located ?

In fact ............ could someone post a drawing of everything that's used in a full auto start installation ? It would be nice if I had a sketch of everything that's used, and where it's located.

A good photo of an onboard layout showing everything would work too.

Thanks > Jim

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Hey Jim,
Essentially the fuel should be fairly clean once it enters the onboard tank and I believe it should be filtered as it goes in, however, a filter on the tank pick-up and another downstream of the pump are hightly recommended. On my JJ 1800 "engine test stand", there is a 10micron filter on the tank pick-up and another just before the fuel line enters the engine front cover. I believe some recommend fitting a filter on the gas line downstream of the solenoid too, however I've not seen much evidence of foreign particles as yet from the gas installation, still, it can't hurt. I'll take a few pics of my setup for you tonight an post them tomorrow. It's amazing to see the amount of crud which is floating around in what we think is "clean" fuel. I know my setup is not an aircraft installation but should give you a rough idea.

I'm sure there are more knowledgeable people out there than I and hopefully they'll give us their ideas!

Cheers,
Smithy.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

I use double micron filters as well, one before the pump and one after.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Jim check out this link to a PDF file which should answer some of your questions. Page 14 shows a schematic drawing of the fuel system. Although its not a JJ specific manual all turbines are based on these fundamentals. Its good reading for the neubes like myself.
Tp
http://homepage.mac.com/jetcentral/....nual%20bee.pdf

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Thanks for all of your help guys. And Smithy, your test stand layout picture is going to be a great help. Too often the in plane layouts show up as rats nests, and I don't know what I am looking at. :D

And regarding micron size ? Who produces these filters, and where are they available ?

And any other layout pictures would be greatly appreciated.

> Jim

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Hello All,

I am ordering up some Sub C battery cells to make a pack to run my fuel pump off of, and was wondering what size you guys have been using? Do you ever flying more than one flight on a charge? My engine has been running on the bench with a 2400 mah pack just fine, but I at least want a spare pack.

Thanks,
Ted

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

You mean the ECU right?
If it is about the ECU pack then a ~3000 mah 2 cell lipo or a 6 cell pack NiMh high amperage pack of about 3000 mah
will do the job just fine.
I always prefer the 2 cell lipo but if you have balancing problems then a NiMh pack (i always prefer the GP brand which i think
are the best cells) is good.
My personal opinion is that if you can use a light pack (due to CG problems) then even a 2100 20C 2S1P lipo pack will work just fine
and it will last for at least 2 flights with capacity left.
Usually the pump needs 2,5 ~ 3 A and the starter will use about 15A max but this is needed only at startup.
Many use a 7 cell pack but i don't agree as this will wear down the pump and starter motor very quickly.
Chris

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Chris,

Thanks so much for the fast response...I see those lipo packs seems pretty awesome....

Ted

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Hey Jim,

Here's a few pics of my 1800 set-up, note the filter between the fuel solenoid and the front cover to the engine, there's also a 10 micron filter on the tank fuel pick-up. Enjoy: