RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

I guess so.
I do remember Jetcat copying AMT fuel delivery design for the P-160.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

In fact PST used Wrens design for the pst600. Just because they are under licence to do so, does this mean they are not copying? or simply copying with permission.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

I would think that it is copying with permission AND paying a licensing fee.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Really, at the end of the day i don't care what Joe copies. We will end up with a cheap engine that works.
Joe really cant win, if his engines are not working then we all just say they are crap. When they do work we say, Um yea but he just copied another design.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Some comments:

FActs:
The JJ1200 is a poor copy of the MW54 Mk2
The JJ1400 same of the MW54 Mk3
The JJ1800 same of the Simjet Sonic 8000
The Regal ecu is a copy (hardware and software) of the Fadec 05.
The people at JJ don't have any idea of why a jet engine works, and simply had take a engine, dissasembled and copied the parts. Don't ask them for anything technical, they will limit to dissasemble and reasemble the engine again. Nor will test the engine nor they know how to do it.


From the dictionary:

Innovation: #the process of making improvements by introducing something new
#The act of introducing something new and significantly different.

I don't think that what you does and what JJ does fit in any of the possible definitions of "innovation". Copying a part and making worse than of the original is not exactly a improvement.

Yes, right, you aren't receiving profit from the steal knowledge, and surely you aren't hurting the sales of the original manufacturer.

It seems. Yes.

No. Why? Unless he have improved or added something new (that I don't know if it is the case), not.

Yes, PST, SImJet, RAM, Modellbau. All of them manufacture variants of the MW54, and all of them arrived a commercial agreement with the propietary of the design, Wren. If you want to say it like this, yes they are "copying". But they aren't stealing.

Yes, surely you don't have any problem in to copy CD's with software or music and selling them for half of the price it and making profit. Sure that you find this supernormal and something that everybody should do, as long as the soft run or the music play, who cares. And if you load the CDs in your CD burning machine using your left hand in place of the right one you can call yourself a "innovator". And sure you don't care in to going to the website of Microsoft or something else to ask for help or download drivers for your "normally" stealed copy of windows... Don't know if this is legal in your country, here you can go to jail for selling copied products.

Try to developp something new, something hard that cost you lots of hours and money to develop, and once done, rethink about if you would like to see some one selling copies of your work and making profit.

GAspar

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Gaspar,
I cannot speak for everyone else here, but I want to thank you for the informative post.

I grew interest in jets about 2 months ago. Up to this point all I have seen is slam after slam about Jetjoe products (ie-bashing with no substance), which has made me think there are a lot of sour people in this forum. But your post has drawn some enlightenment and it will be a factor when I do decide to purchase my first turbine.

Now that this is out, can we please keep the posts to something helpful. I have done a lot of reading (to the point that I need new glasses) on this forum and the bashing posts are working on my nerves...[:'(]

thank you,
Wild

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Gaspar, over time, I have purchased many of your products, talked your products up, and have even added customers to your products that you might otherwise not have had.

Todd is an innovator in other areas, not necessarily the gear area.

When I copy something I change some things that I can't get from an existing manufacturer, a perfect case in point is that Jet1 uses a pin and set screw for the nose strut to fit into the retract. I made mine where it is one piece that fits into the retract. I own several sets of the original gear, and made copies to better suit my application. I'm not taking money from them in this case, because they don't make what I need.

On the BVM bobcat (original xl), the kit was no longer in production when I copied it. The only way I was going to get one was to make one. Again, no one was hurt by my copy, I did not sell them, and to my knowledge (I gave the molds away), they were never used beyond me.

As regards supporting of softwares and cd's, downloading. There are newsgroups where that information is posted (and incredible as it sounds, totally legal and untouchable). Whether I, someone else, or you download that information is entirely up to each of us and how well we sleep at night again, up to us.

I don't expect everyone to read everything I've ever posted on this site, but for the most part, I have openly showed progress of my learning. I copy things that already exist in order to learn the process of making things. It's one thing to own a metal working lathe. It's another to actually have something to make on it. I learn how to use these tools, mold making, CNC Mills, etc by copying something that already exists. I don't think anyone would argue that it's easier to learn these equipment and techniques by copying something that already exists rather than making something from scratch. However, once the learning curve is up, all the sudden you have a skill set to improve and in your words "innovate".

Anyway, fwiw, you are one of my heroes and I am sorry to disappoint if that is the case.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Hi Sean,

Absolutely agree. I think that you have choose the wrong example.




Again, I agree. I don't see anything wrong in what you does. The difference is in the PROFIT. As soon as you (for example) begin to sell (thus having profit) a unlicensed product, each piece sold include materials, work and intellectual property, this last part in the form of design, software, drawings, etc. This part is what you don't own, so selling something that you don't own is simply selling a stolen product. And this is not moral nor legal.


Maybe is legal in your country to download a copy of WindowsXp, for example, use it, make copies and sell the CDs. Here not. You can go to jail. And Mr. Bill Gates is very active here pursuing the piracy.

Again, I repeat that I don't have any problem in what you does, I think that what you do doesn't have anything in common with JJ.

Did you took a product, disassembled it and sent the parts to different manufacturers to be replicated? Did you take this copied parts, put together, filed/hammered those that didn't fit, built a copy similar of the original product without testing and and sold it having profit? Not, right? So then all that you do doesn't have any in common with JJ. And I bet that the quality of your versions is better than the JJ ones.

GAspar

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Gaspar, are you still providing JJ the NADES ECU's or have you quit doing so ?

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Gaspar, Very well said, I said the same thing, though not as well, two years ago in the first JJ thread. I was shocked at the number of people who told me I was wrong then though.It is just wrong to steal someone elses hard work and sell it as your own and trust me the JJ1200/1400 was an exact copy of a wren mk2/3 down to the placement of the holes in the combustion chamber. Scott

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Superb post from Gaspar....The above words should be engraved on the minds of anyone concidering to buy a JetJoe.

Brg

Dave.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

I finally said something good about JetJoes & someone deletes my thread?

Mel Gibson was right about conspiracies. [X(] - John.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

How much IS a JetJoe 1800 ? poor guys like me want a turbine too...................

jackjet

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Around $1800.0 depending on options.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

..Like depending on weather you want it to run O.K at all...Read Gaspars Comments...How much clearer can it be made.

Brg

Dave.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

The Chinese copy everything the West comes out with. We all know that. We can't stop it either. We can do one of 2 things:

1. Don't buy anything made in China....

2. Buy things made in China...

Market forces and financial circumstances mean that option 1 is impractical for most people.
Now we can either chose to do one of 2 things in this forum.

1. Help those who have no option but to buy a JJ turbine.

2. Don't help those who have no option but to buy a JJ turbine.

Anything outside these options has NO placed in this thread.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Hi Guys.

My gas valve is broken.

At what temp/rpm does the gas valve close at normaly ?


Hers mine just on gas ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ6TsN5Eqmo

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Ah but you do have an option whether to by JJ or not, it just means saving for a little bit longer.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

SJN,
If fuel doesn't reach the combustion chamber within a certain period of time the FADEC notices there is no change in temp and RPM so it shuts the gas valve and times out.
Typical to what you showed us on the vid.
My guess is:
Check your fuel is being pumped and reaches the engine. It may need priming.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

I agree with Max, seems that fuel isnt making it to the engine.

The gas usually closes around 27K.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

hehe...it was only a test in my living room.....just replaced a FET in the ECU which had burned out because the glow been shorted.
Fuel pump not connected :)


I just want to start the turbine without the gas valve, until i buy a new one.

Just wanted to know when to stop pumpin gas into the engine.....as the ECU normaly shuts it of at some time for me ;)

So its RPM, and not temp related...?


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...0/Image1-1.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...500/Image2.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...0/DSC01066.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...0/DSC01073.jpg

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

When the Hand data terminal says 'RUNNING'.
If you don't use the data terminal, the green light on the ecu turns off.
I don't normally use the gas solenoid anyway. You can tell when it is time to turn off the gas, after the fuel enters the combustion chamber it makes a crackling sound and stabilises after a short while, (only a few seconds) turn off the gas.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Ahh...there it is..

Parameter 22: rpm x 1000 "Start gas switch off RPM."

mine is set at 100 in the ECU so that is 100.000rpm....that cant be right ?

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

SJN, which ECU is that ?

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

It is the Gaspar AU-354 FADEC ECU