Update Artes Jets Eagle !!!
 

This thread has really turned out interesting. On one hand we have a very experienced turbine designer/builder/manufacturer, the same individual has extensive expereince with the engine that the other guy is showing off. Expert number two posts 2 unbelievable test results, on un calibrated equipment then proceeds to correct Chris on the ECU issues. You have got to be kidding me Jettsett......where are you going with this anyway? Are you getting ready to try and sell these things or what?

Eagle
 

David ok you win, do you know who Gaspar Espiell is? I didn't think so, like I said I have his email that he sent to me, he programmed the Fadec ecu for Artes Jets" do you know how to write software,didn't think so ,I don't know either! do you want me to foward it to you? Didn't think so! As for the equipment lets see, show us that you certified threw the AMA a Turbine motor and then start telling everyone you know whats proper equipment, that you know whats calibrated and were temp probe goes. I don't know you and wish to ask why you post that I'm putting unbelievable test results! Jesus Artes has the results on his web page for anyone to see,Are you calling him a liar also ? I have just purchased and built a motor and ran test and posted them that's all, I have no reason to mislead, like you are, trying at every post to trash a good product, all you are doing is hurting fellow jet modelers, by trying to limit the choices for your own personal gain.You should be more helpful and post comments that raise questions like did you calibrate your test? what equipment are you using or sounds like a winner! Good luck ect, why did I start this post, I wanted to build my own motor and learn how it works and learn how to fix it! and to share with the Guys that's why.

Update Artes Jets Eagle !!!
 

Cool it guys!!

I think Paul was excited about his engine and he made some comments about it not having fully tested it yet.

Now, Paul when you do a test and want to prove that you have an engine that is better than or equal to what's available in the market then you need to have a reference and a calibrated set up. Then you test your engine and...let's say a P120 under the same environment including fuel, temp, barometric pressure, and of course the test equipment. This way you can provide a good comparison test and a conclusion report.
While I believe the intentions were good it may have come across in a somewhat challenging theme.

At any rate, it may be best to fly the engine about 50 flights and keep a log of the data then come back and report, good or bad. This will prove to the public that you did your homework and that you are providing facts not emotions. The worst thing you can do is not to continue with your research and drop the ball. I do hope that we can have another turbine that Jetcat will have to watch out for. I love my P120's and any competition will improve Jetcat's products and make other choices available to modellers. But the fact is that at this time, Jetcat has the market and deservedly so, they have proven it to be a good product.

So, Hang in there Paul and fly the hell out of your turbine and enjoy it....

Update Artes Jets Eagle !!!
 

Hi Chris,

Paul is correct about the ECU operation, this is the way that the current FADEC Autostart software works. Your explanation is valid for the manual start ones, or the Autostart used in manual mode.

I agree with Ehab in to do comparative tests in the same test stand at the same temperature and pressure, the performance changes significantly with the pressure and ambient temperature.

Just for your info about the JG100/TJT3000 engine, I read that last weekend it won the GTBA efficiency competition.

Regards,

Gaspar

Update Artes Jets Eagle !!!
 

I can believe that, Gaspar. I had a RAM 1000 in my old Isobar using the same fuel tanks that I now use. I used to fill up the 140 oz. main tank and the 24 oz. header and get a full 8 minute or so flight and land with a bit of fuel in the main tank. Now, with the TJT 3000 on board, I no longer fill the main tank. I only fill it to about 75% capacity and I fly the same approximate flight times as before and land with about the same amount of fuel. This is by no means a stringent test of fuel usage using a calibrated tank and so on, but I can definitely say that the 3000 is using significantly less fuel than the 1000 did. No doubt about it. I discovered this on the first few flights where I was filling everything. I would land with half a main tank.

Update Artes Jets Eagle !!!
 

Paul, I was there and saw your engine when you ran the test and was very impressed. I am curious as to which way to go in the future for new projects. I have a P-120 and I will have a P-160 next week. How about we throw all three of the engines on the same bench and fire them up one at a time and do some comparisons. Let me know Paul and I will round up the engines.

Sung

Eagle
 

Hi, Ehab, Im trying my best :),we didn't want to cross test because you cannot compare the 2 for the reasons you stated.Someone needs to do the ground work and just post results. If you read what Ive wrote, I haven't bashed other products just reporting, And yes were going to fly it. Sorry if I got alittle hot, But Junkie has Bashed me from the start.

Eagle
 

Hi Sung, If you wish to cross test your motors for your own personal reasons, I will be happy to help.I will bring a infrared temp guage that I can borrow from a freind.:)

Update Artes Jets Eagle !!!
 

Paul, yes I would like to cross test. Also I am thinking of going out to Rabbit on Sunday, you interested. Give me a call.

Sung

Update Artes Jets Eagle !!!
 

Hi Jettset and all,

First off thanks Gaspar for clarifying the set up of your new FADEC, Paul, and all, I am sorry for the mis information, on the latest FADEC system, I was working from the knowledge I have from Gaspars first auto start unit, I apologies if what I wrote caused anyone any angst.
Just goes to show,if you want the correct information then go to the guy who makes the stuff.

Gaspar, I do not have any details about the GTBA efficiency comp apart from info from a phone call from Rob Rowbotham in England, he ran the TJT 3000 at the comp, and won something but I do not know what. as his e mail is down at present he is hard to contact.

BRG,
Chris,

Update Artes Jets Eagle !!!
 

Hi Chris,

The Rob's TJT 3000 won the efficiency competition, that is the engine that had the lowest fuel burnt per newton of thrust. Rob said me that this engine is the one that he use in the A4, and that it have now 18h of flight time since the last overhaul. Second and third places where for the tiny MW44 engines of the Wren team.

BRG

Gaspar

Update Artes Jets Eagle !!!
 

Gaspar, what other engines were in competition for the efficiency award?

TJT 3000/AJ 100
 

Hi Chaps, just got back online with the new p.c. Blimey,you don't realise how much you rely on these things today until we are without for a few days !

The GTBA efficiency comptition is held at Coventry air museum which is located in the middle of England. The musem also houses the Sir Frank Whittle Heritage Centre which traces the development of the worlds first jet engines, of which there are many historic examles sectioned and on display. Also on display are many of the world's best known jet powered aircraft including an Avro Vulcon (first aircraft Iworked on fresh out of my RAF apprenticeship), Lightning, F4 Phantom, F104 Sarfighter, etc. the listis endless. Well worth a visit if you are in the UK.

The actual competition is divided into 2 categories, thrust specific/fuel consumption...using the least amount of fuel for the most thrust, (my 18 flying hour TJT3000 won this one) and the second category takes into account the engine weight, (the new WREN MW44 @ a little over 1lb won this, we came second). The engine is bolted to a test stand and run at whatever rpm you desire for 2 mins continuous, with thrust and fuel weight used being measured. I ran the TJT @ a steady 123Krpm, (3k below full power) and thrust averaged out at 23.5lbs. with temps in the mid 600C It's also very encouraging to see your engine run at this very high power setting for longer than you would ever use in the air.

Also of interest on the day was a very nice exprimental true twin shaft turbofan engine which has run sucessfully and is reported to give around 30lbs thrust.

I have posted some pics in the RCU photo section if anyone is interested. Just look for pics b Robrow.

Cheers, Rob.

Eagle!
 

Hello Rob, Thats great about the fuel consumption competition, I didn't even know this but when we Ran My AJ Eagle we noticed the fuel consumption was very low compared to what we are used, its nice to see advancement in turbine technology's and that turbo fan proves their are some great minds out their! I was wondering if you tested your engine @126,000 K and about what is your thrust output? and temperature, Thanks Rob,I see your using the Fadec Unit:)

Power !
 

Hi Jetsett, yes the fuel consumption figures are very encouraging. I used to fly the engine in my Roo with max rpm set @ 126k but it was totally over the top, I only had the nerve to hold full throttle for a few seconds at a time. The huge massflow of the engine at those rpm leads to rediculous airspeeds and because it's so quiet flying towards you that speed can be deceptive !

Chris at the TJT factory in Australia runs test engines for HOURS NON-STOP at this rpm to ensure that there are no nasty surprises instore for customers. It's uncanny to watch the engine sitting there running solidly at 126,000 rpm burning over a pound of fuel a minute.

I have always used the FADEC autostart ecu; had the honour of performing the very first UK FADEC autostart and was also fotunate enough to be involved with the develpment of this ecu. The next generation FADEC available shortly is even better.

These guys never stand still for long, development work continues apace.....watch this space.

Cheers, Rob.