RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

Unfortunatly Safety is not a sexy subject, if we had a safety forum only those who are already convinced would be the ones who read it. I would ask you all when was the last time you read your company safety manual or revised your own Health and Safety Policy, the majority will not have done anything in the last year, every time I mention Safety I meet with the same reaction, eyes go to the heaven and a fecisious comment about jobs for the boys, untill everyone accepts their responsibility for safety most of those avoidable accidents will still happen.

Some of the items I have learnt from this accident are:
Check frequency control whever its yours or someone else's.
Don't take it for granted that because its clear one minute it will be the next.
Fail safe has to be set to make the aircraft come down as quickly as possible.
If in unfamilier teritory double check everything.
All turns should be away from the out of bounds area, converging lines should be as shallow as possible.
Once any rules or regulations are in place do not recind any on the day.

Please add to these as you see fit.

Mike

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

I also find in interesting that this thread has become the "Jet" thread- Last I looked this accident has a WHOPPING 10 replies in the Giant Scale forum and NONE in the 3D forum. Over here we are at 180 ( i think). Would hate for this accident to become our issue due to thread location.
Perhaps you guys have some input on why this is. Scott

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

oops .. sorry, this was posted already ...

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

I'd like to think the reasoning for this been visited is because people are thinking about it.

I did suggest earlier a sticky thread called Safety Matters, but the mods didn't pick up on it.

You can't be guilty by association if your actively trying to prevent something, but you could be guilty of negligence if you simply passed it over to another thread........ So much interest suggests a more proactive and perhaps considered approach, perhaps the other threads would do well to take on "our" lead....... Please take that in context I remind myself everytime I comment on what happened and why this thread started, I would agree to it being renamed now.

A few hits from the other thread suggests a lack of interest.

The power source is irrelevant, its the process and focus that matter.

I do agree that the thread should be everywhere though, even the non engined hand launch 3gramme park flyers have an aspect of safety to cover off.....

Humbly,

Gazzer

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

GSR,

All this proves is that we, the Jet crowd, care to talk more about safety than certain other on-line groups. Human nature is to cover up anything that makes you look bad. I would expect the other groups to keep quiet because they see all of the grief our regulations give us. I think it was said before, the people who will do sonething about better safety have read this and they will change behavior, those that won't, won't.

Mark

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

Without any objections, thread renamed from "2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash" to "Safety Matters" and placed on top of the forum.

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

Mark,

I think you're right on with your comment. I bet you if this was JET that took someone out, it would be all over RCU and every other chat forum in the planet. It is unfortunate that this happened but things happen, no matter what you do.

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

This was posted here first. Most people subscribed to the thread and just stay and answer where ever it was first posted. I think that is why all the posts are here. Not because jet people are any safer then anybody else. I don't even own a jet and have no desire to. And I don't associate this thread with jets. Everyone knows it was a prop job. Maybe no one is talking on the other threads because their all here. You jet guys should take advantage of this opportunity to show us prop guys how safe you are. Maybe we all can learn something.

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

Look at the overall jet safety record. I think we already showed you guys how safe we are.

That should not be taken to mean that I think we can't do better, but we've done pretty good.

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

I just can't accept that logic. There has not BEEN enough jet flying to say ANYTHING, statistically.

I know, people like to throw out statistics, but all it would take is one major accident with jets...
Then, suddenly, the stats will read that jets are hundreds of times more likely to cause an accident.
For every jet flight each weekened, how many regular planes take a flight? A THOUSAND? Five thousand?

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

Curtis, I think we are comparing apples to oranges here. Overall the vast majority of jet pilots are extremely proficient flyers. The knowledge and skill levels of turbine pilots are far beyond the average R\C pilot. There is plenty of jet flying going on, not any where near the amount of your basic r\c models but the caliber of flying is much higher. How can you fairly compare two extreme ends of the hobby ? I have to agree with Woketman, we are very safe.

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

I understand your point, but I (respectfully) disagree. I see a lot of poor piloting, poor decision making, and poor building in the jet world, same as any other world. And I oftimes see some of the best pilots and builders don't do jets at all.
There is an arrogance, I know unintended, in your statement, that probably has a lot to do with a lot of the rift that you sometimes see between jets and the rest of the modelling community. The truth is, most jets are ARFs, and assembled no better or worse than most other models. That that boomerang from the other day as an example. Kind of basic to remove the covering before gluing. Yet, there it was!

And the fact still remains that one jet accident would throw all the statistics way off.

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

I think the best way it has ever been put to me, by those with much more experience in the aviation industry in it's infancy, was as follows: "Hey, you want a perfect safety record? Put the airplanes up on blocks and go stick your head in the sand. You want a really good safety record? Work hard, be proactive and always realize that safety is not the destination, but the journey..."

Safety... not a destination, but a journey. That means that safety is not a condition, but instead, a way of thinking and a way of making decisions. You are only as safe as your last decision and action. Our safety status is a very dynamic condition dependant upon individual decisions, accountability and honesty with ourselves.

It takes a lot of support, mentorship and leadership to create a culture that supports safety. Right now, the model community at large can get valuable safety leadership by the very grassroots membership that might look to someone else for direction. We all have to ask ourselves "why", and "what if" and "how can this be done better".

When we have a safe operaton, we have a fun day. We all got into this to have fun. A culture that values safety protects our ability to enjoy such an amazing little niche we all enjoy so much.

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

Hey moderators,

What do you guys/gals think about making a list of safety points that are discussed throughout this thread on the first page so that all that see this thread can atleast have a guideline.....

Just a thought,

Here, I'll start it!:D

____________________________________

1. Safety is your responsibility.

2. Be aware of people around you, they, and you, can be unintendedly killed or hurt by your model.

3. If you have failsafe, set it to engine kill.

4. Consider using full aileron, full rudder and full elevator deflection upon failsafe. This may maximally slow your model down in a lockout situation, potentially saving human life and potentially minimizing damage to onboard electronics and powersource(s).

5. Always, ALWAYS double, and on busy days, triple check frequency assignments. As you turn on your transmitter, look at airborne models and assure yourself that no model has lost control. Remember, the model you save, may be your own.

6. Upon model failure such as flutter, loss of control surface, or other control issue, ALWAYS keep the option of intentionally grounding the model in a safe place as a viable option.

__________________________________________________


I've tried to keep them short and sweet and applicable to all models, props, park flyers and helicoptors. I really taken aback by people who think that their way is the only way to accomplish a goal, so I hope my rhetoric is not sounding like this!!(see my signature!:))

Since it seems that the jet thread is the most popular, many beginners, including myself, have come to RCU for info. It seems logical that the most frequented thread have a safety thread at the top.

It may also seem logical to have a specific jet, scale, helicopter, car, boat, giant scale, IMAC safety section on each thread. I would have loved something like that when I was getting all of my safety equipment for my jets!

I hope I don't start a turf war, but if we all learn more about safety while arguing here on RCU (I love those ET vs "the world" posts, god that's funny[&:]) I think we all win.

If people start dying with R/C then R/c as we know it will undoubtedly stop. That thought breaks my heart.

Thanks for listening,

Raf

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

I believe Mike is on the right track here.. he will be safer from now on.. are all of us listening and learning I hope so!

Cmjets wrote:
Hi all, in special to Stefan:


My condolences for the victims and spirit for my friend in this hard moment.


Best regards from Club de Aeromodelismo NIMBUS.

Well said:


I also send my condolences to the injured… and families of the victims.

To Stefan: I send my deepest sympathy for the regrettable situation you find yourself in. Please understand every one of us out here in the World of R/C also sends their deepest regrets. Do not take any of our second-guessing as a direct criticism. We are trying our best to understand how this type of accident might be avoided in the future.

Lee H. DeMary
AMA 36099

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

Has anybody heard anything about an Israeli model pilot who killed someone, was found negligent, and went to jail?

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

This is truly a sad situation, and my heart goes out to those involved.

ET,
We need to get you a motorized pot-stirrer, 'cause your arms gotta be sore.

Again, I think we need to have explosives in all of our planes and give ET the button.

Who wants to bet that no one ever lands. Bring your trashbags boys cause ET's finger is glowing.

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

I couldn't agree more. You wouldn't believe the hassle I get from our fellow club members who insist on flying their models near to the pits while professing that it's perfectly safe. :eek:

I've even had one member rail against the dangers of cholesterol to one member, and in the next breath, argue that a rudderless turbine jet was within the AMA waiver guidelines because it had faux rudder pushrods! [:o]

Safety is an attitude, not a rule!

Daren

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

I’ve noticed that too! I seldom see “Giant RC Aircraft” accidents discussed in the “Giant RC Aircraft” forum. In my opinion the discussions are beneficial in stressing safety for all RCers.

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

But the end result was probably the guy just flew the plane anyway, and nobody said anything because they did not want to be unpopular?

You UK guys...how would YOU react to the same situation?

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

.. Have you not got to go back to the root cause of exactly why an airplane is'nt under control... eliminate this...rather than put in place, imperfect ( but maybe the best we have ) systems to plaster over this.

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

Yes, I agree and the systems we (UK) have developed over the years we have been event flying is a direct result of things going wrong and should/is always open to improvement.

How many of us check their failsafe actually works before flight ? It's a quick and simple thing to do with the turbine running on the ground. I had a situation a couple of weeks ago at a public event where as usual part of the preflight independant airframe inspection involved the usual failsafe check.....and guess what...although I 'thought' mine was set in this particular case it was not (could have sworn I had done it). So this official check worked and 2secs later it was set and verified.

Food for thought.

Rob.

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

...........................despite the greatest care sometimes things go wrong in aviation, it did for me today with this result. This model has just has a meticulous inspection and had flown 105 flights without a problem, one earlier today, then this taxi-ing in ! More details to follow.

Regards, David Gladwin

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

..Commiserations David...Its the most awful feeling when something like this happens.

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
 

TS speak from heap big experience re above, and I also commiserate with you David. That looks like your lovely little Albatross, a real shame.

And this is the biggest example of what we have been talking about. DG is THE Mr Safety, yet something went wrong, proving that despite all considerations at the end of the day we can only actually reduce risk, and continue to be dynamic in doing so as sometimes something will conspire and the result is a problem.

How manageable that problem is will be down to our safety behaviour planning and process's and the attitude we have had towards safety.

Gazzer