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RE: Dragon question
ORIGINAL: jthomas235 ORIGINAL: as722 Here's a picture of mine, you can see the two formers as well as the carbon cloth where the sockets for the rudder are. Even if another former was added but the vertical fin sockets were not attached to the former the fin would flex. My vertcal fin has two carbon rods about 3/8'' in diameter and about three inches long that slide on to the sockets that are attached to the formers. Albert On another note. Looking at your picture, I would install some type of shielding for your servo wires before perfoming your maiden. Some thin aluminum tape is what most are using to help protect wires from heat. Look at the picture in post #64. Some of the tape has been removed to replace servo but 100% of all wiring is covered in aluminum tape prior to flight and prevents damage in the event of a hot start. John I have the tape, just didn't get to it yet but thanks for the heads up. Thanks Albert |
RE: Dragon question
ORIGINAL: jthomas235 Skymaster: As previously mentioned, we have already installed the bulkhead deleted from the previous design to Richard's Dragon. After much thought, we don't feel comfortable flying it until we add the spar(s) to the rudder and securing to bulkhead(s). If we were to do this, what is the best method to install carbon spars (tubes) to rudder? Would you use one of two aluminum pins of the latest design to secure a carbon rod? Adding a sleeve to secure this rod would be simple to the added bulkhead. The latest design uses two short aluminum pins to secure rudder to stab with screws. The old design only used one screw. I think that one screw is plenty to ensure the rudder does not slip away from stab. What we are after is the added strength provided by spar from rudder when attached to bulkhead(s). What is the proper way to return to the previous design without damaging the paint? We have no way of knowing where to modify/add to rudder without tearing it apart. Thanks, John |
RE: Dragon question
ORIGINAL: richjc ORIGINAL: jthomas235 Skymaster: As previously mentioned, we have already installed the bulkhead deleted from the previous design to Richard's Dragon. After much thought, we don't feel comfortable flying it until we add the spar(s) to the rudder and securing to bulkhead(s). If we were to do this, what is the best method to install carbon spars (tubes) to rudder? Would you use one of two aluminum pins of the latest design to secure a carbon rod? Adding a sleeve to secure this rod would be simple to the added bulkhead. The latest design uses two short aluminum pins to secure rudder to stab with screws. The old design only used one screw. I think that one screw is plenty to ensure the rudder does not slip away from stab. What we are after is the added strength provided by spar from rudder when attached to bulkhead(s). What is the proper way to return to the previous design without damaging the paint? We have no way of knowing where to modify/add to rudder without tearing it apart. Thanks, John P.S. ALONG WITH JOHN QUESTIONS ALSO HOW FAR DID THE SPAR OR SPARS PENETRATE INTO THE FIN? |
RE: Dragon question
ORIGINAL: jthomas235 Skymaster: As previously mentioned, we have already installed the bulkhead deleted from the previous design to Richard's Dragon. After much thought, we don't feel comfortable flying it until we add the spar(s) to the rudder and securing to bulkhead(s). If we were to do this, what is the best method to install carbon spars (tubes) to rudder? Would you use one of two aluminum pins of the latest design to secure a carbon rod? Adding a sleeve to secure this rod would be simple to the added bulkhead. The latest design uses two short aluminum pins to secure rudder to stab with screws. The old design only used one screw. I think that one screw is plenty to ensure the rudder does not slip away from stab. What we are after is the added strength provided by spar from rudder when attached to bulkhead(s). What is the proper way to return to the previous design without damaging the paint? We have no way of knowing where to modify/add to rudder without tearing it apart. Thanks, John |
RE: Dragon question
Thanks for bringing this problem to light. I have been cosidering one of these jets but I think I'll wait for a resolution.
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RE: Dragon question
ORIGINAL: tothemax Thanks for bringing this problem to light. I have been cosidering one of these jets but I think I'll wait for a resolution. I'm considering another one as well. If I were to buy one today, I'd just have the rudder inspected. If it has the tubes or spars installed (in the rudder), you've got the stronger setup. It seems Skymaster/Extreme Jets removed some of the material in the tail to reduce the amount of ballast needed in the nose. As mentioned earlier in this post, I have 22 oz. of batteries and 16 oz. of lead in the nose with the previous version of the tail. Richard's new Dragon has one less bulkhead in tail and no spars in rudder. He runs the exact same batteries and amount of lead weight in nose as mine and we both balance out at 1/2" behind the main spar. We do differ in the struts, wheels and tires between the two planes. I don't have any numbers on those. We will also have to get a total weight of the two the aircraft for comparison as well. John |
RE: Dragon question
John, Thanks for the info.I am capable of making the mods you have pointed out but I may look for an older one to avoid the extra work.
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RE: Dragon question
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John,
Here is my solution as an alternative to front wheel steering wires. Please see attached image. I never use wires for steering as I also fly from a grass field. I am also using A1 struts for the main undercarriage as they work well on the grass field. I also use solid rubber 2.75" wheels with no modification to the wheel well in the wings. Regards M S |
RE: Dragon question
ORIGINAL: Namih John, Here is my solution as an alternative to front wheel steering wires. Please see attached image. I never use wires for steering as I also fly from a grass field. I am also using A1 struts for the main undercarriage as they work well on the grass field. I also use solid rubber 2.75'' wheels with no modification to the wheel well in the wings. Regards M S Any details would be appreciated........any modifictions required, etc.. John |
RE: Dragon question
Hi!
still waiting for the maiden flight... I double checked the rear area of my dragon. No stabilty problems found...I think it is stable enough... I have one question: The servo throws listed in the manual, are they descibe the hole servo way up AND down? For example the ailevator: Manual says 30mm... 30mm the whole way up and down. Or 30mm up and 30mm down?? Quite a bit much, i think... Thanks for the help.. Regards Dirk |
RE: Dragon question
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John,
I am afraid my steering contraption is home made. It is based on some of Skymaster front steering U/C. He may sell the parts. The two items I made are the aluminium servo tray and the cylindrical bush. The rest are the original items. I attach more images. Regards SM |
RE: Dragon question
Hello Dirk,
I have set the throws to max but with 35% expo and only for take off. Then duel rates reduce by 50% for normal high speed flying. The throws will be too much at high speeds. Hope this help. Morne |
RE: Dragon question
ORIGINAL: MSSA John, I am afraid my steering contraption is home made. It is based on some of Skymaster front steering U/C. He may sell the parts. The two items I made are the aluminium servo tray and the cylindrical bush. The rest are the original items. I attach more images. Regards SM I'm really interested in this mod.. Would you be interested in making/selling a few? Not sure if you would have to have the unit out of my fuselage or not but I know myself and at least one other that would like to make the change to a direct steering over cables. If not, could you either post larger pics or send to my email so I can enlarge. Also, is the first picture you posted the actual unit you installed in Dragon? jthomas235 at comcast.net Thanks, John |
RE: Dragon question
ORIGINAL: Osnabruecker Hi! still waiting for the maiden flight... I double checked the rear area of my dragon. No stabilty problems found...I think it is stable enough... I have one question: The servo throws listed in the manual, are they descibe the hole servo way up AND down? For example the ailevator: Manual says 30mm... 30mm the whole way up and down. Or 30mm up and 30mm down?? Quite a bit much, i think... Thanks for the help.. Regards Dirk Here are the throws on my Dragon. I set it up at first with dual rates, using smaller throws than listed below, but after flying it more just keep all the switches set the same all the time (full throw): elevator: 1-1/8" up AND down (measured at root) expo: 30% aileron: 3/4" up AND down (measured at tip) expo: 35% rudder: 1-1/4" left AND right (measured at bottom of rudder) expo: 30% Note: these measurements are in inches 1st stage flaps: 45 degrees 2nd stage flaps: almost 90 degrees. I need to make a linkage adjustment to get 90 degrees and will do so soon. One more check I would make if you are only going to depend on a single bulkhead and two short pins to support the rear stab. Inspect the glue joint around the entire bulkhead (both sides). The one we had issue with had only a small amount of hysol at the top of bulkhead and the joint actually separated. |
RE: Dragon question
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John,
Yes the unit photographed is in the Dragon. Attached are larger images. Please note the extra half former added above the existing former that holds the front U/C bearings. I am afraid I do not have the time to make these parts for others. Sorry. The servo tray is made from an aluminium strip and the bush from 1/2" aluminium rod and drilled to 6 mm diameter. I include an image of the tools I use. Regards MSSA |
RE: Dragon question
ORIGINAL: MSSA John, Yes the unit photographed is in the Dragon. Attached are larger images. Please note the extra half former added above the existing former that holds the front U/C bearings. I am afraid I do not have the time to make these parts for others. Sorry. The servo tray is made from an aluminium strip and the bush from 1/2'' aluminium rod and drilled to 6 mm diameter. I include an image of the tools I use. Regards MSSA BTW, what are you using for a servo? John |
RE: Dragon question
Hi Morne! Hi John!
Thank you for your advice. I will set the throws like you have, John. For normal fly an additional dual rate for higher or lower setup. John, to clarify for myself: The elevator then has to be set the way up 1 1/8" and 1 1/8" down, right? Other settings similar... Yes i also checked the glue joints. I would hve done it the same way as it is... No missing points. a sufficient quantity... But still thinking about making an additional bulkhead. Another problem came to light. My gear door cylinder does not keep pressure. Has to be changed, too. Best Regards Dirk |
RE: Dragon question
ORIGINAL: Osnabruecker John, to clarify for myself: The elevator then has to be set the way up 1 1/8'' and 1 1/8'' down, right? Other settings similar... |
RE: Dragon question
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John,
I use standard size non-digital servos with metal gears on all front wheel steering. The servo does not have to be powerful. Digital servo might drain the battery if it binds inside the aircraft during flight and when leg retracted. In Dragon case I used Futaba S3305. Meanwhile I attach front retract with steering bracket image for my L39 as supplied by Skymaster. Regards MSSA |
RE: Dragon question
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I maiden my dragon today and it all went great ! The airplane flies like a pattern plane with very little KE coupling, no rudder to elev. and a little rudder to aileron. The fuse is 21 lbs and each wing is 3.5 lbs plus about a pound of nose weight for an all up weight of about 29 lbs. The titan is a great combo on this frame and to my surprise the fuel tanks supplied with the dragon are plenty big. My first flight was six minutes and I landed with the bottom tank full, by my fourth flight I was flying for nine minutes and the bottom tank was over half full. Even though I had a few small issues with the dragon they were nothing that I couldn't fix, this is a great value on a big jet.
I balanced it on the wing tube then took out about 3 oz, this so far feels really good but I might take some more nose weight out later. I started with 25 degrees for low flaps and sixty for the high setting but increased it to about seventy the last two flights and I like it better. Can't wait to go flying again ! Albert |
RE: Dragon question
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Albert,
Sounds like a sucessful maiden! That's one good looking jet. I would not go further than 1/2" behind wing tube for the c/g. We lmost lost a Dragon today with the c/g too far back. Poor judgement on our part and no fault of the aircraft. If you get it too far back and fly off of grass, you may notice the nose wheel bouncing on your taxi out. Might have some video of that flight in a day or so. The take offs are as smooth as anything I have ever flown with 1/2 flaps down. Just a little up elevator when at speed and it leaves the ground just like a full size. I'm doing away with the pull pull cable drive for steering and have ordered a Tams direct drive retract. Will post pics and results when that is installed and tested. Here is a neat modification Richard Curry came up with to ease the install of wing attachment bolts: Just cut off about 1/2 the length of a allen wrench and hysol to wing bolt. This really helps speed up this part of assembly. John |
RE: Dragon question
I was at Farview today and witnessed Albert's maiden. Needless to say, it was incredible! Not only is Albert's flying impressive, but his assembly methods, attention to detail and neat install were second to none!
Now I can't wait to finish my Dragon. Unfortunatly I am in the middle of painting the exterior of my house so it may be a month or so. Anyway, thanks for the tips today Albert! Your airplane rocks! Jim |
RE: Dragon question
John,
What is it that you don't like about the steering ? Mine works very well but I did bend down the steering tabs on the nose wheel strut, it tracks really good down the runway on takeoff. Albert |
RE: Dragon question
ORIGINAL: racer8297 I was at Farview today and witnessed Albert's maiden. Needless to say, it was incredible! Not only is Albert's flying impressive, but his assembly methods, attention to detail and neat install were second to none! Now I can't wait to finish my Dragon. Unfortunatly I am in the middle of painting the exterior of my house so it may be a month or so. Anyway, thanks for the tips today Albert! Your airplane rocks! Jim Thanks Jim ! Can't wait till you get your dragon flying, you'll love this plane. Albert |
RE: Dragon question
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Here's a picture of the nose gear, as you can see the steering tabs are ninety degrees down and I looped the wire instead of using a clevis. I initially used clevises but it did not work very well at all. You can also see the bvm micro switch for the gear door, I moded this with a spring loaded "plunger" so once the switch is closed the gear can continue to go up without having to worry about the micro switch holding it from locking in place. Albert
Albert |
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