Hi all,

It has been some time since flying pattern and therefore I need to get an existing model in the air to teach myself how to fly again.

I have been looking at the electric options (which there are numerous) an I feel I am not ready to make a choice as to what to use at this stage.

I have been trying to get a couple of old DZ160's sorted out to fly but I am not comfortable with the reliability and dont have the time to sort them out for the time being.

I am thinking of purchasing a DZ 175 CDI (cheaper than what I paid for 160DZ's 8 years ago Hmm) however I need some advice

1)What props are people using on this engine
2)How much oil
3)How much nitro
4)Spark plug life?
any additional information which will assist me to transition from a DZ160 setup.

Thx

Peter

Hello Peter,

The 175CDI is the easiest to set and best running YS so far,

Propeller APC 20 x 10.5PN, you can use this one even for break in with no problems
Oil, even thoug this engine can run very low oil, try not to go under 10%, higher is better the better the lubrication the longer the engine will last
Nitro 25%, but between 15% to 20% should be also ok, 25% will give the lowest idle and the most power
Spark plug, on a well set engine it should last form 80 to more than 120 flights, but the gap needs to be checked every 40 flights, the color on the plug and the overall appearance indicates if the engine is set correctly or not, we run 23% oil and the plug looks very good.

The 160 is a great engine, mines use to run very good with no problems at all, but this engine is waaay better than the 160 in many many ways. You will be happy with it.

Best regards

Alejandro P.

If you switch to electric you'll wonder why you held off doing it for so long. There are very good reasons why the trend is clearly electric. To put off making the switch because you don't know which set-up to use is simply delaying the inevitable IMHO. Save your money and go electric...

Having said all that, some people like the noise and associated slime that comes with glow. Some people also like to wear out their servos and models excessively fast. Some also like to tinker and perform weekly maintenance on either the model or engine or both. I can understand the attraction..

Regards,
Jason.

My DZ170cdi (low oil) was my first experience with YS engines and at the time it was the best and easiest to operate YS engine to date with all the problems of the previous YS engines finally sorted out. You could run it on 5% oil and prop it to turn in the low 7k's and it had more power than any plane needs to get through the FAI schedule.

Of course I didn't get one of those YS engines, mine ran great until some part failed or started to fail on it then it would give me no end of trouble until I'd changed out everything, then it would run great again. I've missed 3 comps (including a Nats) because of engine problems and as I have a massive dislike for spinning spanners at any comp be it airplanes or motorbikes I'd much rather have a broken-in engine and electronics sitting in a box ready to swap out rather than chase down a problem between rounds, but I didn't win division 1 last Saturday night, so if I get engine problems I'm out for the day.

I have however seen a bloke have no end of trouble with a Neu motor over a period of months, an electric have a deadstick and another electric let the smoke out for no particular reason pushing over the top of a loop after after a couple of commutation sync issues during the schedules.

I love the sound, power and especially love the smoke trail that really describes the lines and curves on a still clear day that you get with IC, IMHO both electric F3A and IMAC planes look "lost" in the sky without some smoke trail.

I agree with Jason though, putting off the switch to electric is only delaying the inevitable. My next (and last) IC engine for aeromodelling will be a Honda generator.....

Hello Peter

My 170 cdi have 184 flights (each flight last about 18 mn).
Its' very reliable. The only changes I do are replacement of pump after 77 flights and spark plug after 46 flights.
Propeller APC 19x11, fuel is 6 % oil and nitro 20 %.

I'm waiting 175 cdi so I dont know it . But friends of mine as Loic, CPLR , Cedric and others told me it's more smooth and iddle throttle is lower.

I fly also with friend's electric patterns but flight is too short for me (about 7 mn). If I want to do 3 flights , I need about 8 batteries to do the same duration of flight.

Claude

Hi Claude, is that Cedric from SMAC?

If it is, without him my DZ170cdi would have ended up in the bin 12 months ago. I think I've spent close to a whole new DZ170 with them in spare parts to get my YS going, and to be able to keep it going with enough bits for another couple of rebuilds.

Hello

He's Cedric of SMAC

http://www.modelisme-smac.fr/

Claude

It is undeniable that the electrics have many advantages such as virtually no engine maintenance, less vibration, hence longer servos life, more motor and models options, and others. However, regarding flight time, the IC has a huge advantage. As it has been told here, you can fly up to 18 minutes (glow). Four flights of 18 minutes each gives 72 minutes total, that is equivalent to about ten flights with the electric; it means more batteries, more takeoffs and landings, that is not useful time to practice the maneuvers that really matter. It also appears that the YS develops more torque than any available electric motor today, this, specially in windy days is an advantage that can not be ignored by serious pattern fliers. In spite of it is also undeniable that the trend is electrics, in my particular opinion, glow or electrics, is a difficult decision to take at this time !

Regards
Enrique

I agree with all of the above except the torque statement. Electrics deliver instantaneous torque, whereas even the best of the YS stuff does take a second to spool up. That is one significant advantage for electrics. A few years ago there was an advantage with glow in the wind, but it wasn't the torque, it was the ability to use the available power while still having power at the end. As the batteries, motors, and ESC's have improved this is no longer the case. I flew YS for years and loved my YS stuff, but I have yet to fly a YS, 1.75 included that had the instantaneous torque of my Neu setup in my Wind S Pro. It is impossible for an internal combustion engine to produce the instantaneous torque than an electric motor can produce. The YS stuff certainly has more than enough torque, but if you do a vertical snap at less than full power to where the plane virtually stops and then add the power back, you will see what I mean. The YS will easily climb out whereas the electric almost looks like it is shot out of a cannon. Now, I'm comparing the best electric setups, not your lower end outrunner.

Arch

To answer your questions:

1) 19X11 APC currently (still running in, will eventually switch to a 20X10.5)
2) 20% oil
3) 30% nitro
4) I'm running it on glow at present. Spark plug life on the 170CDi was pretty good but you did have to adjust the spark plug gap every so often.

I flew electric most of last season but I've not flown electric since September, I've gone back to YS. My 170's and 175 have been great so far and I'm not about to give them up just yet. During the winter if you get a break in the weather you need to hit the field quick so having to wait around to charge batteries isn't attractive to me at the moment, I'll just bring out my petrol/YS planes

With electric you do get instant torque but YS aint too far behind. But do your really need instant power? I put a throttle slow on all my F3A planes so for me personally I don't think it is a bit deal at all which reacts to the throttle stick the quickest. My contra does have a lot more pull that my YS but the YS would still ease through P-11 and F-11 so I don't agree with Arch' comment about the vertical snap with YS. The YS also had the same level of performance at the end of the schedule as it did at the start. Electric, whilst improving all the time, isn't there just yet from my personal experience. You need to manage your batteries. Obviously the lack of vibration is a big advantage with electric. At the end of the day you pick the system that best suits you.

Angus,

I wasn't saying the YS wont do it. I said if you try it at a throttle setting that the aircraft stops in the snap and then accelerate out, that the electric has instantaneous torque. Done at a normal throttle setting they both blow right through it. I was simply coming up with a scenario to demonstrate the electrics torque curve is essentially flat, whereas any internal combustion engine has a torque curve and an RPM range that it generates the most torque. The YS motors certainly have no issues with power and they produce longer flight times. With most of the electric setups out there you can fly any of the sequences without any issues in any wind conditions, but you are right, you have to manage your power, whereas the YS you can go all the way all the time if you want. Neither setup though needs to be flown this hard as I'm sure you'll agree. I loved my YS setups, but so far electrics have more than exceeded my expectations, but you are right, it is still a personal preference and both will certainly do the job and do it well.

Arch

Another thing that Peter needs to consider is his local support should he need help with the YS. I noticed that he's from Aus after posting... That being said, not many pattern fliers still fly glow down under. I think you could literally count them on one maybe two hands... I have seen long time YS/OS proponents switch to electric and not regret it one little bit. Arch is right about the vertical snap thing. This is one of the reasons Tom Prosser switched to electrics. Never thought we'd see him flying electric. He has taken to it like a fish to water....

Cheers,
Jason.

I did tried electric on one of the best set up available, and the YS still feels better, and on the snap both felt tthe same way. One thing on the YS is you can feel every click of the throttle stick in flight, instanttly, and that is what I did not like about electrics.


Both are great, I just do not understand why is it that those who fly electrics feels the urge to convince everyone flying YS to convert to electric.

No matter what, they both are great and itt is more about what everyone likes.


My electric setup for refference is Hacker C50-14XL Comp Wolfgang Matt Limited Edition with Master Spin 99 Special Edition, and TP G6 4400 and 5000mah, and stil like YS better.


Best regards

Alejandro Pereira

It's about reliability and reducing costs. If you prefer glow, be prepared for higher running and maintenance costs.

It's also about providing advice that will keep someone in the pattern fraternity....

Cheers,
Jason.

My brother passed onto me a comment from a well know Aussie pattern flyer when he found out I bought a YS. It went along the lines that my eyes needed to become a certain shape in order to have it running properly

It really is 6 of one or 1/2 dozen of the other, just like trying to advise a newbie of what size radio he should buy. I'm a long term investment type of person that tries to buy the best I can afford expecting to get a good run from it. While I wasn't happy with the weight of my Aries, after 2 seasons I have to commend Oxai on supplying a plane that can be wiped clean, put back in the box and still looks brand new and to be honest I think I would take the gamble and drop a few weeks pay into another Oxai product (if Rob would still let me?).

I would have been much less angry with the YS if the instruction manual had a decent maintenance schedule like my racebike has ie replace part x at y km. I can accept changing pistons, rings, plugs, pumps, cam bearings, whatever according to a schedule and having no issues. I really don't get along with the "run something until it breaks or starts having problems, then send it back to us with a blank cheque" or "you figure it out" approaches.

As Jason indicated, YS support in Aus at a comp is thin on the ground and it's a case of the blind leading the blind. I know of only two other DZ170cdi's in QLD, one's on a shelf somewhere and the other's running back on glow propped to turn high 7's low 8's after experiencing every problem I've had as well.

Peter, are you coming to Tin Can Bay in Feb??

Hi all,

Thanks for all the replies. I wasnt expecting this thread to break out into a Electric Vs YS power debate however it makes for very interesting reading.

My situation is that I currently have a very good F3A model which will get me back to a level of skill to compete in F3A however I need to put some time into flying which is the key for me at this stage. For the people that know me I have been a long time campaigner of YS 4 Strokes and I have had a very good run with them over thousands of flights for many years. My 160's are giving me some problems because I never stored them correctly prior to leaving the hobby 6 years ago and unfortunately I dont have the time or interest to get them sorted when parts are going to cost me as mush as 20% of the cost of a new engine.

The electrics do appeal to me (especially the contra) however I dont want to make a choice at this stage as the flying is what really is important for me. My current model is setup for YS power and the conversion to electric will be difficult.

Certainly this debate has got me thinking and asking myself if buying glow is the right thing to do. If I bought another YS I could be flying in 1-2 weeks however if I went electric it will be another 3-6 months by the time I get back into the air by the time I get a new airframe together and familiarise myself with electrics.

Fuel costs are not a consideration as I have a large stock of fuel which is still good to use.

Thx

Peter

the solution:

Fly both

Ys Performance and Electric Time

Smoke Trail .and. electrones performance

I do and i very Happy

Do both, by the time you get the electric together you'll need it......

In all seriousness though, another point is that I doubt there's any re-sale market for that YS so any coin dropped on it would be a total loss when you're finished with it. You can also leave an electric sitting around in a plane for a couple of years, pop in a new battery and it's good to go.

I really feel obligated to run the YS at least every 2-3 weeks, because if I run it out and put oil in it, it fouls the plug next time out. Happend to me after a rebuild as well, put too much oil (only a couple of drops here and there) in everywhere when I put it together. Started first pop of the starter and ran fine for about 30 seconds, then died. Wound it with the starter only getting the occasional pops (plug fouled). Took ages and multiple plug pulls to get it to start and run long enough to clear the excess oil, lesson learned...

Hey Brett,

I cant seem to find any information on a comp in Tin Can Bay in February. What date is the comp being held?

I would like to get there if I can who else is coming?

Thx

Peter

Hi Peter, Feb25-26

Shoot Dave an e-mail at "[email protected]" and he'll add you to the mailing list.

Maryborough will be just after that, early April I think with Bundy State titles in June/July. I've penciled in a "home" field advantage for me at TARMAC in October :-)

There's about 5 comps penciled in so far in QLD.

Hi,
Is your fuel stock 6 years + old ??
It may not be good.
This stuff is very inclined to take water in. -hygroscopic !
The plastic containers only offer some protection.
If the water content gets high enough it starts to misbehave, and it can be quite deceptive.
One can start chasing engine problems.

Brian

Thanks for the suggestion

I mix all my fuel and therefore I have had oil and nitro under storage as well as methanol. I will purchase new Methanol however the Nitro and oil should be fine.

Thx

Really, what is it that makes electric flying pilots so eager to convince everyone to quit YS?? Is it some kind of religious fanaticism????

There are many people who like YS period!!, and not often you'll see YS pilots hacking on eeeevery electric thread, I have seen more electric issues in competition, being the last European and the last World Championships than YS( I still have to see a YS to catch fire and destroy a $5000 plane, oposite to electric). If I would fly my YS powered Axiome instead of my Amethyst, I would logged more than twice the flight time I had for the worlds, where I did not do good because I could not practice, and I wasted precious time on the electric, even with 6 packs.

Peter,

You will do excellent with the 175, good luck with it and share how it goes.

Best regards

Alejandro P.

Alejandro,

It's obvious by Peter's initial post that he was toying with moving to the bright side. Now that his situation is a little clearer, it would seem that staying with glow for the moment will get him flying faster. He also has plenty of fuel to burn.

I too used to fly glow but then I saw the light..

Everyone to their own..

Regards,
Jason.

If you have the fuel to burn then YS is the way to go . I flew my 170 CDI almost daily and was very happy with it although I was not able to get 15 or 17 minute flights as some pilots can and I believe it was because most of my flying is at sea level. I did switch to electric because I could not justify spending so much money on fuel as I do not have a sponsor. I am really happy with electric power and am not set to convert the pattern community to it. But I will tell you this: I still love flying glow but I don't see myself buying my next pattern setup as glow. And as for the flight times during practice I don't see myself hugging the sky for fifteen or more minutes when there might be others waiting. A good flight of five minutes at a time is plenty of practice...