pvogel

Chip,

I guess it depends on what you are solving for: attendance at a single event like yours or long-term participation in pattern. At least two of the guys that flew your shortened pattern at Arvin did fine on the full-length pattern at Hemet (in fact, Jamie won, Congrats Jamie!). I think you are setting the bar too high for people to get into flying a competition. My goal the first time I flew competition last year was to fly a sequence and have at least ONE maneuver in each sequence NOT be a zero (as it happened, I had set the bar too low for myself so I moved it up to a goal of flying at least one flight with NO zeros and achieved that). I even managed to not come in last (that competition had 5 sportsman competitors) the others don't seem to have been back...

A lot of things factor into the decision to attend a contest:
1. How far is it to drive?
2. Can I share the ride with friends?
3. Can I afford the gas/lodging/etc.
4. Is my plane airworthy
5. Is there fun stuff going on outside the contest itself
6. Does the family have any plans that conflict?
7. Do I have any conflicting commitments (work or otherwise)

I honestly think that the Arvin contest nailed it on a number of these, particularly because of the central location you draw effectively from both Nor and So cal folk and you managed to pack in a bunch of other "fun" stuff. But, to be perfectly frank, if this contest is done again next year and my sequence is cut short, I won't be there regardless of the other fun. I don't usually follow RCU, so Saturday morning was the first I'd heard of this shortened sequence or I wouldn't have bothered to go and would have saved the "bullet" of a trip out of town without the family for a contest that was flying the full sequence.

I honestly appreciate what you are trying to do for pattern here, but based on my own experiences getting into competition just last year, I think you are going about it the wrong way.

Peter+

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Personally I don't think the sequences are going to have a real effect either way. While it is a good thing that the two of you guys are concerned with keeping pattern alive and increasing participation, IMO if a guy ways to give pattern a try he will. What we need to do and I think Chip is doing a great job at is to be an ambassador of our sport. Take time to encourage and help guys that may have interest. When they do make it to a contest, support them and MAKEDARNEDSURETHEYHAVEFUN. At Bakersfield that is exactly what Chip and a few other geys were doing. I saw Mike Caglia calling for a couple sportsman pilots. Verano and Rusty were taking to to guys with questons, The Kimbros are always approachable. These are the guys who have been playing this game for a long time and have seen the waves of participants come and go.

Peter, please by no means take this as a jab. What I see at Tomcats is the pattern group taking over a corner of the pit area and not interacting with the sport flyers. These are the clubs pattern prospects. There are a ton of guys flying scale aerobats that could be approached. Ask them to call your sequence for you or maybe just spot for you while you fly the sequence. You may get their interest that way. Once you show them a few setup tricks on their airplanes, offer to call them through the sequence. This is what I did when I was flying alot of IMAC. It worked and at one point IMAC pilots were plentiful at Tomcats. The wave rolled out and now IMAC is dead at Tomcats, thats the way it workes. Something is popular for a while and then something else gains popularity. Right now we have more pattern pilots since Bob Whitachre was promoting pattern but nobody is reaching out to the club members to recruit new piolts.

pvogel

Good points Sean! I fear Luke and I are some of the last pattern pilots at Tomcats due to (unfounded, IMHO and from the data I've collected) concerns about radio interference on Futaba equipment at tomcats. As fixed wing training director I've actually been thinking about adding a training offering at the club for people interested in learning to fly the sportsman sequence it'll be a bit of the blind leading the blind, but I can certainly help people develop the confidence to fly the whole sequence and to know the basics of what to look for in their maneuvers and hopefully keep them from falling into a ditch (obscure biblical reference, sorry, I couldn't resist).

As for being in the corner and not interacting, I've had quite a few folk come over and ask questions about getting started in RC, getting started with Aerobatics, electronics, electric power systems, etc. and I'm always happy to help. Thanks for the heads up though, I'll work to change the perception of "pattern corner".

Peter+

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

We're getting ready to have our 1-day meet on June 23rd and I have been trying to get some of my club members to try Sportsman. When I sit down with them to explain all the maneuvers in the Sportsman pattern, their 1st comment is, man that is a lot of stuff! I don't know how the Sportsman pattern got so long, but it used to be quite a bit shorter. It's really meant as a "get your feet wet" event just to give pattern a try. I think it's gotten to be much more then that.

Jamie is a fellow club member and a new friend. He came down to the Bakersfield event with a new model he bought from another club member on Wednesday. It isn't really a pattern model, it is a small Katana sport model. He flew some of the Sportsman maneuvers with it in practice late Friday, then flew the entire pattern flown at Bakersfield in the first round of the contest. He got hooked, bought a 2-meter Evolution from Jean Greear, and has been at the field nearly every day since Bakersfield flying. So I think, at least in his case, Chip's idea worked. Or maybe Jamie would have gotten hooked anyhow.

I can understand wanting to fly the entire pattern. Sportsman will fly the full pattern at my meet on the 23rd. But if you decided to skip Chip's contest because of a shortened Sportsman pattern you would have missed flying and participating in maybe the best pattern event D-7 has had in decades. It certainly had the biggest entry in Sportsman that I can remember in quite some time. I'm already looking forward to next year's event and have offered my assistance to the Bear Mountain club in any way to help it happen again.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Peter, I have too been thinking about having some sort of " Advanced Flying " instructional add on to the training offered with the club. I end up realizing that I just don't have the time to jump in and get anything started. I do have ideas if you are interested. The first is that I think it would have to start with teaching proper setup before we got into flying techniques. I think I need to just man up and make time to get out there with you and Luke more often. I have a great time at the contests but would like to improve. obviously requires more practice then what I have been doing and I'm afraid another eye exam is in order first.


Remember though that out of our 400 members there are really only about 50 of so guys that care anything about competition. That's pretty typical of most clubs. Persuading guys to participate in a contest format that requires high dollar equipment and hours of practice per week is a tough sale. Taking a guy under your wing and making sure he has a good experience his first time out is a sure way to get him involved. It wasn't too long ago I was in Arvin calling Todd Bridges through his first IMAC sportsman contest. He won that weekend and now flys unlimited and freestyle in the Shootout .

Passport1

My Feedback: (8)

Since this came up and I am glad it did I have been doing some more thinking about this but first of all I want to say this. I am not a big fan of people that get involved in debates having to do with classes they do not fly in and that is why I normally do not say much about these things. However since running the contest and wanting to make it better next year I think that a better solution needs to be reached.

When I started we had pre novice at the local contests and that was the class people were able to get there feet wet in. It was very similiar to the shortened pattern and had the basic elements in it. IMO Sportsman should be something the above average sport flyer can do with some effort on his part to an average of a 5 or 6. Nobody enjoys getting zeros and honestly I don't think that is the way our entry level class needs to be unless they completely mess something up. Then after learning the basics (a loop, a roll, stall turn and most important how to fly straight and level) they can move up to intermidiate to continue learning more difficult elements while flying a longer routine. At this time the way I see it is, 90% of the people that want to try pattern on their own, (like my dad and I did) will quit long before they ever get to a contest because of the difficulty and length of our entry class.

Pre Novice was not a class that had a points system and was not intended for guys to stay in it, even for a full year. It simply gave a place to start where you were not competing against seasoned verterans. Maybe we could stay with the patterns as they are now and simply allow the sportsman pilots to choose long or short with a 3 contest cap on guys flying the short version (On the honor system) That way every contest will have the potential to be someones first even with minimal help to the pilot and burden on the CD.

As for the two guys that are now flying the full sequence, Steve and Jamie, I am really happy to see them entering some more contests and I even called Steve to say congrats after seeing that he place 2nd a couple of weeks ago. Jamie you to. I am not sure how many know this but Steve has been building pattern planes since the early 80's and Bakersfield was his first event. Gary Banducci, Larry Williams, and Steve Smith have stuck with it as well and will be at some contests in the near future flying the full sequence.

Anyway I am confident that next years contest will fly the full patterns but we will also have a place for a guy that just wants to see what its all about.

C

Surefire

My Feedback: (1)

Chip - That is a very promising idea! I have been having discussions along a similar vein with various people about something tentatively called the "Club class" basically a shortened maybe non-turnaround Sportsman. We don't really want to split our already small group of contestants down any further but I do think there is a need for the concept/class that you are talking about! The trick is in how to work it in.

Good ideas.

I also agree with Tony F. The Arvin pattern contest was the most fun I have had in a loong time at a pattern contest! Thanks again for putting in all of the work!

pvogel

I *love* the idea of a "novice" or "intro" class as a short-term entree' to Sportsman, one of the big advantages is that it offers the Sportsman competitors a chance to learn to judge maneuvers (which actually helps our own flying as well) in a less rushed and intense manner than judging intermediate or advanced. I get (sort of) the concern about splitting the contestants further but it doesn't feel like it should really be an issue novice would pull in folks who aren't competing today, some small % of them would get bitten by "the pattern bug" and eventually land in sportsman. It would help to identify folks that we can "take under our wing" and, in the spirit of the virtuous cycle of "Learn->Teach->Learn" sportsmen could offer to call + coach for the novice guys to get them up to sportsman level over time.

Completely agree with Tony, it was a lot of fun and probably the most fun I've had at a pattern contest when NOT flying, but the flying was not as much fun for me as at other contests, I did enjoy calling for and guiding Chris Walker though. I hope he comes back for more, he definitely seemed bitten, though I think his weekend time is limited by his business.

Peter+

Phxsparky

My Feedback: (12)

Does anyone in the Bakersfield/Arvin/Lancaster area have a RCATS Glow Driver or one that is similar with the delay start that they would sell? I am just getting into pattern and purchased a pattern plane with a YS140. It is my understanding you don't want to heat the plug till after it is turning over. Any help is much appriciated.

Thanks!!

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

YS 140 was never a problem starting with a regular driver. I think the need to start the glow later was with the pumped systems starting with the 1.60. But I started a lot of 1.40's with a regular driver.

Phxsparky

My Feedback: (12)

This is a pumped one. It is the DZ140...:-)

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

OK. I lost track of what YS has made. The last one I used was the 1.40L.

remmulp

My Feedback: (6)